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The weird thing about the sequels is the weird amount of people coping and saying they’re not that bad. It’s literally bad fanfiction written by people who couldn’t care less about the franchise.
I was a kid when the prequels came out and loved them despite how they were poorly recieved by old fans.
Maybe these people who like the sequels are kids/teens.
I actually really liked Last Jedi on its own and consider it in the top half of my ranking of the franchise. I think Luke’s characterization could’ve been handled better (and the whole Canto Bight subplot could’ve been cut wholesale) but looking at myself at 23 (how old Luke was in RotJ) and my experiences since, I found the lapse of judgement and faded optimism quite relatable. Adam Driver is one of my favorite actors and his portrayal of an abusive yet charismatic antagonist turned love interest was spot-on. There’s also the comparisons you could make between the First Order and the rise of fascism in America today. That one’s a bit of a stretch but it’s important to recognize World War II’s influence on the original trilogy and the Iraq War’s on the prequels.
That said, Rise of Skywalker is not only the worst Star Wars film- I consider it the worst film I’ve ever watched. It’s not a poorly-made film, the cinematography is great, but the plot is nonsensical. It redacts everything they set up in the Last Jedi, retroactively making that one worse than it is standalone. What seals it though is this will always be the ending of the saga- they can’t go back and fix it. I’ve probably seen worse movies, but the disappointment will never reach the level that this one gives me.
100% agreed with all of this. Well said.
They could make a 4th movie 😂 How would that plot go?
They are doing another Rey movie but it won’t be part of the “Skywalker Saga.” Can’t say I’m as excited as I would’ve been prior to IX but I will still definitely be there when it’s out.
Last Jedi was a good movie but it wasn’t a good Star Wars.
Technically it is very good, the director is great and made some brilliant stuff like knives out and tlj certainly isn’t a boring watch.7th was a mediocre ok movie and ok Star Wars. 9th was neither. Their stories don’t form cohesive whole.
To be honest nowadays I only like 4k77-83. Prequels are just cringe as an adult. At least we can all agree I think that the acolyte was some forgettable misunderstanding. I watched house of the dragon right after acolyte and I couldn’t believe how much much better the dragon show is. 180 milion dollars. I only remember I watched it but not a single scene made me feel anything
Love Rian Johnson, especially as a Breaking Bad fan.
I was 20 when TPM released and not a single person I knew liked it. It is still the most disappointing part of the franchise for me with ep2 being a close second. Ep3 was an improvement but still just ok.
Now I see people in their 20s and early 30s that live the prequels and it’s just strange to me. They’re no better than the sequels (and worse in some ways) so I really don’t understand people that enjoy them while crapping all over the newer films.
The prequels had a good story told incredibly poorly while the sequels have a bad story but at least it is told well (or at least better) and neither of those are recipes for a good film.
I liked TPM, except for the scenes with Anakin. I just hated how he was written, and the acting didn’t help. Huuuuuuge crush on Natalie Portman though
That kid did the absolute best he could with what he was given, and I feel very bad for him and the guy who played jarjar. They have both had some very serious issues because of the shitty starwars fans.
Man, I get so fucking bummed out every time I think of them. Can you imagine how excited and proud they were to be a part of goddamb STAR WARS?
Then all the shit gets dumped all over them and they’re endlessly ridiculed for something they likely loved and were happy to be a part of.
The total lack of empathy and compassion burns a hole in my stomach.
The prequels had a good story told incredibly poorly while the sequels have a bad story but at least it is told well (or at least better)
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I was also 20 when TPM was released. I hated everything about it at first. Then a couple years later when RLM made their review of the trilogy, it gave my thoughts new form, and I had to realize that what the prequels did well was establish a lot of lore and world building, which made TCW possible. Unlike most of the badly written EU books, it dared to deviate from X-Wings & TIEs, Han Solo and even the mysteries of the force. Even if we have forgotten gems like force speed, never to be used again.
And TCW is the bomb.
The prequels had a good story told incredibly poorly
This is redeemable, fun to read about extra info on wookiepedia, and fun to rewatch in whole context of that good story.
while the sequels have a bad story but at least it is told well (or at least better)
This is not redeemable, adds nonsense and contradictions to wookiepedia, and why bother rewatching a bad story at all? But hey, at least the acting is good and special effects are pretty!..?
Another thing is the prequels made the world of star wars feel big enough to fill a galaxy. The sequels made the world of star wars feel small (at the end of the day they introduced like 4ish new characters that matter and like 2 new worlds).
And to defend my point, characters:
- Rey
- Kylo
- Finn
- Poe
It’s hard to count Snoke, the Knights only show for a hot second, Storm trooper lady maybe, Admiral Holdo maybe, oh and Hux doesn’t deserve mention.
Planets:
- The planet with Maz
- Salt planet (Hoth 2.0)
- Exogol
- Casino Planet
I did look it up and there are a few more. Forgot Jakku isn’t just a part of tatooine. There is another desert planet apparently, there are also a couple planets the rebels set up at that are only pop up for a few minutes. Luke’s island is on a planet, but not sure that really counts. Starkiller base is listed as a planet, but that’s pretty much deaths tar 2.0.
To be fair, if you look at the original movies, most of the universe info is not contained therein.
There are books. You can, for example, pluck a trilogy on Han Solo’s backstory off the shelf at Barnes & Noble. You could do that 15-20 years ago. The books are all written by an array of different authors though they all take place within the Star Wars universe. What is that if not professionally written fan fiction?
FF isn’t my thing, I’m not endorsing it, just stating what I encountered when I tried to read a book or two engaging the Star Wars universe in the past.
They all had a stamp of approval from George Lucas though. Once Disney bought the franchise they said fuck all that and made it “not cannon”.
More importantly, they had someone dedicated to maintaining the canon and keeping the various authors from contradicting each other too much
good some of those books were worse than fanfiction
Thrawn came entirely from the books. The hype would not have existed for his appearance in the show had the books he was in been on the quality level of the sequels.
Hell, the sequels should have been based on the Thrawn trilogy
I still think Disney would make bank if they’d just declare Legends a separate canon, re-cast Han, Luke, and Leia with up and comers, and start adapting old EU novels.
They need to do the Republic Commando novels and they need to finally make the Starwars 1313 game. I will never not be salty about that.
thrawn was already in star wars rebels and pretty sure hes getting a movie or show
I am doubtful as to the number of those books George actually read.
I feel this about Futurama, and nobody else around me seems to care
I care. New Futurama seems different. I’ve seen all episodes and movies prior to 2023 at least 20 times a piece. At very least. The pre-2023 episodes are definitely all over the place in terms of quality too, don’t get me wrong. I really tried to keep an open mind but the new Hulu stuff seems different.
The original run of the show was the best, and it should have just stopped there. It’s all been very downhill from there. I watched the show so many times that I even had the DVD commentary memorized. This is one of the only hills I am willing to die on.
Every time it gets rebooted it’s worse
They’re just attached to the franchise and thus have a bias towards it. Some people go far beyond just the movies: books, comics, spinoffs. They’re far in too deep to objectively see the content they consume purely for its own value.
I mean, it’s not cope, I just like 7 and 8. I’m not a huge Star Wars fan, I’m not out to change anyone’s mind, I just liked the movies as a fun adventure with some good themes. I didn’t like 9 because my favorite part of 7 and 8 was the idea that you don’t have to be from some powerful family to be a hero (something that was better executed in Knives Out), but 9 really threw all that away.
I just wanted a fun star wars movie and every single one felt like it was star wars. Sure the plot sucked but I still enjoyed watching them.
Did they though?
In my opinion, yes. If you don’t agree, that’s okay too. Or not, the downvotes say that it’s not allowed
You might enjoy anything then
I’m going to be honest, I truly think there’s more value to be able to enjoy things freely in life. People who find delight easily aren’t as foolish as you’d think. When I’m salty, those are the people I find myself envying. I’m the one who feels like an idiot when I notice.
I would rather hang out with someone that allows themselves to feel joy in silly things rather than one who has no patience for mediocrity.
I criticize stuff just as often I assure you. Maybe my expectations were just lower than most people’s so it had a lower bar to clear
I’m sorry your life is that sad
Episode 7: Derivative but fun
Episode 8: Pure trash
Episode 9: Desperately trying to piece together the plot
Episode 7: derivative boredom
Episode 8: I like thi—WHAT THE HECK IS HAPPENING? WHY??
Episode 9: JJ desperately trying to piece together a plot
“Poe commits mutiny for the 12th time; learns nothing.”
9 was a reaction to the challenge of actually having to tell a story. The challenge was not accepted.
9 failed as a follow up to 8 so badly I can’t even tell if it’s worse than 8.
How anyone thinks 9 is better than 8 is beyond me.
I’ve always said that the worst thing that 9 did was completely destroy any excitement for Star Wars in an instant.
Prior to 9 releasing, people didn’t like 8 and were already souring on 7, but there was still discourse, people caught up on Star Wars news, people were excited for the new content.
After 9, the excitement dropped like a brick. It was the closure of a trilogy in one of the most profitable IPs in the world. There was still more content planned to come out soon iirc (the shows, and I think there was talk of more movies), so it’s not like people stopped caring due to the lack of content. Nobody I knew was interested in discussing fan theories or analyzing the movies (except to rag on them, I suppose). It was as if millions of voices cried out in terror… And were suddenly silenced.
9 is just generic. It’s mediocre. 8 is an active train wreck. God, I remember sitting in the theatre and being baffled by the opening ‘conversation’ between Hux and Poe. I legit thought it might have been another one of those fan vids that they show in the Alamo Theatre before the actual movie began, despite the opening crawl.
“Somehow”, lightspeed skipping, 3PO not being able to translate from sith, the ancient dagger that is also the shape of the crashed death star from a highly specific angle, Palpatine fucks, whatever a diad is, 10,000 star destroyers.
I’m not pretending that 8 is a masterpiece, it isn’t, and it’s worse than any of the OT, but at least Johnson tried to do something to keep star wars at a galactic scale.
The worst bit of 9 is how small it makes star wars. Everything comes down to a tale of two families - Palpatine and Skywalker - in a way that nullifies everyone else’s involvement. For a story that spans a literal galaxy, having it come down to those two families, twice, is terrible writing.
I mean, I agree with all of your criticisms of 9, I just don’t agree that they make it worse than 8.
I mean, hell, “Finn immediately wakes up, loses faith in the rebellion”? The slow-motion chase through space? “Union negotiations” ha ha so funny? Carrie Poppins surviving for no real reason except perhaps to ‘subvert expectations’? 3000 attempted coups of Poe and the uninspired leadership of Admiral Replacement? “I’m going to let you out of the brig, not because you’ve learned anything, but because committing mutiny is why I keep you around”? Hyperspace jumps can now be weaponized? Hoth 2 (this time it’s salt) after an emergency landing with one ship? Twelve people survive out of the entire fleet so let’s celebrate?
The ENTIRE Canto Blight nonsense, top to bottom? Especially the weird shoehorned animal rights bit? Benicio del Toro the arms dealer who exists for ten seconds (waste of a fantastic actor) and leaves on the stunning line “Maybe”? Grand Leader Whoever in a bathrobe talking about how much ‘spunk’ young Rey has and then dying in his first few minutes seen in person? Whatsherface falling in love with Finn over the space of a day or two and then managing to race her land speeder faster than Finn’s, so she can catch up to him as he’s going full throttle on a suicide mission and then save his life by… ramming him at full speed and wrecking both of their vehicles right on top of the enemy?
Luke casually throwing away the lightsaber like it was a piece of moldy bread? “The Jedi Scriptures”? Luke drinking blue milk fresh from the teat? Not even acknowledging (or barely acknowledging, I don’t remember) Chewie coming back to see him, one of his oldest friends? The Porgs? Fuck. “Reach out and feel the force”? Luke decides to murder his innocent nephew in the middle of the night despite being such an idealist that he thought Darth Vader could come back from his atrocities? Casually brushing off his shoulder after getting his force projection blasted by the not-AT-ATs?
I’m probably missing so goddamn much. I’m not revisiting it. I saw it once, and once was one time too many.
There are only two things that 8 gave us that were good - the force bond on screen (and even that was tormented by the sheer awkwardness of it, especially asking Ben Swolo to put on a towel) and the almost Nietzschean philosophy embraced by Kylo Ren as a more articulate envisioning of the Dark Side. I do wonder if that was connected to KOTOR 2 or just one of those parallel evolution things.
As said, I don’t think Last Jedi is a good film, so my defence is going to be pretty half arsed, but just a few points I’d like to challenge.
- Finn joined the resistance because he witnessed an atrocity as a trooper and didn’t want to be a bad guy. He got disillusioned and questioned whether the resistance were actually good because they had to do things that also killed lots of people. He ultimately decides it’s justified. I’d argue that characters overcoming struggles and having a bit of depth is a good thing.
- Carrie Poppins was a bad, bad, choice, agreed.
- Poe leading a mutiny because he didn’t know what was going on, because he’d been demoted, because he didn’t follow orders, demonstrates that while he may be a great pilot, he’s far too impulsive and his own actions are what holds him back. This shows where his character can, and needs to, grow if he’s ever going to be at the top table.
- Canto continues with the strong anti-imperialism of the original trilogy. The purpose of that entire piece is as a commentary on the military industrial complex, and how it has conflicted goals as it benefits more from continued war than peace.
- “The animal rights bit” - dude, the culmination of RotJ was the Empire being beaten by teddy bears, this again is a constant theme throughout the OT, that exploitation occurs everywhere within an imperialist system.
- it’s been 30 years since we last saw Luke, and even then his training was incomplete, because he’d run away impulsively to get back to Han and Leia. Luke is flawed - my biggest peeve with certain parts of the old EU was how some authors painted him as almost christ like and perfect, perfect is boring - and ultimately failed to rebuild the academy. He fucked up so badly that, yes, he misunderstood a vision, and thought Ben was going to go to the dark side. He then caused this, couldn’t forgive himself, and lived in self-imposed exile as penance. Of course he didn’t want the lightsabre that he’d already given up. Wouldn’t it be even weirder for him to be all “oh, thank you so much for giving me back the sabre I purposefully discarded after I tried to murder my nephew and turned him away from the light, it would look great on my wall!”
- don’t kink shame blue titty drinking! 😂
Again, was it a great film? No, far from it. But at least it tried to give depth to characters, had them tackle challenges, and overcome them and/or grow through failure.
With Palpatine coming back, somehow, in 9, it completely destroys Anakin’s redemption, because it turns out that he didn’t actually kill Palpatine after all, so no final great act, no meaningful sacrifice, Vader dies for nothing.
For all its faults, and there are many, nothing Last Jedi did destroyed the main character of the fanchise’s arc quite like that.
Of course he didn’t want the lightsabre that he’d already given up. Wouldn’t it be even weirder for him to be all “oh, thank you so much for giving me back the sabre I purposefully discarded after I tried to murder my nephew and turned him away from the light, it would look great on my wall!”
That was actually Anakin’s lightsaber, the one given to him by Ben that he lost in the duel on Bespin, that most people presumed was lost forever after having been shunted out of a trash chute into the atmosphere of a gas giant. He didn’t make a conscious decision to give that one up, though I understand his reluctance to accept any lightsaber in the first place what with everything that happened that we learn about throughout the movie, but the casual toss-over-the-shoulder for laughs was pretty inappropriate considering the tone of the same scene at the end of 7, explicitly framed in such a way implying that Luke had an emotional reaction to seeing either Rey or the Lightsaber again.
Fair point, but let’s not pretend that that scene in 7 was anything more than JJ’s usual mystery box, set up with no plan for execution, writing.
How on earth Disney allowed a trilogy of films in a franchise as massive as star wars to not even have a speculative outline for an overall arc blows my mind.
I see it the other way, 8 was an alright movie if it was standalone and not part of SW. The things most people disliked are fine if it was some generic sci-fi action movie. “Jake Skywalker” is a nonissue if you don’t think he’s supposed to be Luke, the quippy lines were common, the weird bits like the Mary Poppins scene or the Holdo maneuver are acceptable in some other sci-fi movie. Wouldn’t have been a masterpiece, but it’s still relatively put together.
9 struggled to be a film. Remove it from SW and it’s almost worse— 8 could feasibly be greenlit and released by lazy execs, but 9 would’ve been cancelled in production. Pacing was jarring to the point of feeling unfinished, plot was one of the least coherent in a mega blockbuster, and story conveniences were nauseatingly poor even if it wasn’t Star Wars. It feels like they just put something together real quick without the editors and it got leaked. None of it was serviceable. And god, not to repeat myself, but the pacing and story were horrid.
Add it back to SW, and the Sith life transfer/dyad nonsense is as much an affront to Lucas’s story as TLJ Luke. Possibly more: sure, doing that to Luke was shit, but
