I remember thinking when I was younger and more naive, that we might not have had the ‘war on terror’ in Afghanistan or the invasion of Iraq right after, if internet access was more prevalent at the time (or at the least it would have been much more loudly opposed)

This all has made me realize how very foolish that line of thought was

ed. Your comment about things being deleted reminded me of how I was trying to find a specific Reuters article about how Ukraine press-ganged prisoners with military experience into the war very early on; I couldn’t find it later, and I doubt I could if I looked now. Just something to add to the pot

Would you be willing to share some archived links here? I didn’t learn about the Ukraine Nazi problem before the war and it’s been a bear trying to find information now

About 100 years in the making at this point.

The ambient libs mostly don’t care as much about politics or have checked out partially, they may be outraged over some blatant nazism but they aren’t organized or mobilized to do anything about it and will quickly fall back into their malaise.

When the Nazi/fascist minoritarians take power, they usually have the blatant support of around 30% of the population. The other 70% aren’t all anti-fascist partisans or Schindler’s hiding and saving jews. Most of them are ambient libs who continue being ambient libs/ambient fash and just acclimatize to the the current political zeitgeist.

revolutionary defeatism means critically supporting the opponents of your own side

Lenin didn’t meant that the SPD has to gather money to send to the Tsarist army though.

Yeah you’re right, I just tend to err on the side of over-simplifying in the first salvo.

thanks, i was pretty pleased with this one lol

It’s becoming abundantly clear that you guys heard the buzzword “whataboutism” and are desperate to use it.

Pure projection, try criticizing America in a lib space like yours

whataboutism

I’ve definitely come around from ‘war is bad, no one should be at war’ to ‘the elimination of reactionary forces, specifically those who adorn nazi regalia, is paramount to the continuation of humanity’. Is Russia perfect, no; is Russia killing Nazis at a faster rate than the rest of the world, absolutely yes. Do I want every Nazi in the world dead yesterday, yes; who is going to deliver that goal, Russia; who isn’t going to deliver that goal, US and NATO.

People who paint themselves as communist are saying “Ukraine = Nazis,” and just because Russia has a communist history, see “Russia=communist.”

This is a straight-up inversion of reality, literally nobody on Hexbear believes Russia is a communist country, do you seriously think we are unaware of the collapse of the Soviet Union or the fact Putin was one of the butchers of Russian communism? Ironically, it’s liberals who seem unaware of the soviet collapse and still thirty years later try to present Russians as being “ethnically-communist” or have you completely missed liberal rhetoric over the last year?

Also “Ukraine = Nazis" isn’t an oversimplification, it’s an accurate description of current Ukrainian political economy, as this latest Waffen SS episode has so blatantly demonstrated

People are calling Ukraine a nazi state because it is full of nazi apologists, is full of nazi symbolism, their national heroes are nazis, their military is full of nazis, they parade genocidal SS members in foreign governments, and so on. Plenty of people here speak on the tragedy that Ukrainians are experiencing but that doesn’t mean you ignore the nazis, who at a minimum served as the tail ‘wagging the dog’ of the Ukrainian state escalating violence in the conflict with the DPR and LPR, cascading into the war.

No one is saying Russia = communist. By that logic, Ukrainian history also would imply it as being communist, they have just as much a right to that legacy as Russia. Talking for myself, I am mostly horrified at the complete acceptance and triumphalism that nazis have received in the west in the past couple of years. I imagine most users of this site feel the same way. I repeatedly talk with people IRL about this conflict that goes into history and context for why Russia is not insane nor evil for this war, despite it still being a tragedy, and I get a lot of people who call me a putinbot, tankie, or some equivalent thought terminating cliche.

I think a lot of people have chosen a side because we have not been meaningfully allowed a voice to advocate for peaceful diplomatic measures. Calls for peace and diplomacy are met with accusations of russian propaganda. Nazi membership is merely russian propaganda now. So, for many, these are the sides and you have to choose one or the other and some US leftists are choosing revolutionary defeatism, sometimes it has a more vulgar pro-russia/anti-nazi stance but it’s wayy better than the vulgar pro-nazi stance lmao.

People who paint themselves as communist are saying “Ukraine = Nazis,” and just because Russia has a communist history, see “Russia=communist.”

Ukrainian fascists control the Ukrainian government while Russian communists are just controlled opposition with no real power in Russia.

But this is kind of my point. The viewpoint depicted in this meme and the bunches of others like it I’ve seen lately is just propaganda going the other way.

Propaganda that praising and clapping for literal Nazi jew killers is bad actually? Why is that propaganda and not just simple, blunt truth that Canada self-owned with? Russia didn’t make Canada clap for the jew killer and thank him for his service, they did that all on their own because it’s who they are.

It’s a complete oversimplification—and this is EXACTLY what everyone is saying liberals are guilty of. And while it’s true of liberals because it’s a simple narrative that is easy to paint sides into (and American politics is nothing if not ideas painted two colors for ease of identity), it’s also very true of what’s happening here.

What’s a complete oversimplification? Be explicit, what is being oversimplified? That Canada is filled with tens of thousands of Ukrainian Nazis that they purposefully accepted into their country to break the pro-labor Ukrainian diaspora that existed there pre-WW2? The decades of historical revisionism and nazi apologetics becoming mainstream that allow for this to happen? This was all consciously pushed by your leaders, who are nazi sympathetic. If anything, the oversimplification is that this makes like a little whoopsie by 1 Canadian MP instead of part of a decades long Nazi project by Canadian elites specifically, and western elites more broadly.

NATO was staffed top to bottom with Nazis. Operation Aerodynamic began funding and spreading nazi ideology in Ukraine before the bodies were even cleaned up from Nazi genocide. The west installed fascists and Nazis into power in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Ukraine, Indonesia, West Germany and dozens of other places. This is who they are.

We’re talking about Ukraine’s obvious Nazi problem and you said this:

There is a goal here and it seems…like supporting Russia, a global superpower and aggressor, in a war against—what is being painted here as just a bunch of nazis. The unspoken message here is, “you don’t want to support a bunch of nazis. Go russia.”

This is classic whataboutism, a well known Soviet Communist Disinformatsiya technique. No one is saying Russia isn’t bad, but bringing that up doesn’t excuse what this conversation is about; it just distracts and provides cover for Ukrainian Nazis.

You brought up Russia unprompted.

It says a lot that you managed to ignore everything else I said though. Please explain why in your comment, you made it seem like supporting Russia would be wrong. Keep in mind that your criticisms of Russia must make Russia’s actions worse than the actions of the United States. If criticizing Russia’s enemies means supporting Russia, then criticizing America’s enemies means supporting America, who is a greater evil to the world than Russia could hope to be. So from my POV and most people here, supporting Russia and criticizing their enemies simply makes more sense for leftists to be doing.

Progressive Liberals that think they’re leftists will claim they don’t support democrats but do everything they can to keep them in power because they’re the lesser evil to Trump and Republicans. I don’t want to simply assume for you that you follow “lesser evil” logic in politics, but if you do, you must admit that it is logical to support the lesser evil of Russia, China, and Iran against America, the most bloodthirsty empire in human history.

They found a way to do it in the open with this one, which makes things a little easier.

I mean…as (ostensibly) working class leftists, I didn’t think anyone would be outwardly PRO murderous world superpower. But…it seems obvious to you.

The vast majority of the world’s working class are POC for whom Nazism is an existential threat due to its expansionist and genocidal ideology. What do you propose is appropriate for us to do in the face of the impregnation of Nazi ideology in the world’s most (ostensibly) powerful and (objectively) aggressive military bloc?

“The only positions that can be taken are support for the wholesome chungus murderous NATO world superpower or support for the not wholesome chungus murderous Russian world superpower. By stating that Ukraine is as full of nazis as the ongoing flood of evidence continues to indicate, clearly you have chosen the latter. I am a master of geopolitics.”