I mean, you can use that same logic on the US government, even Democrat run ones, which have supported genocides in the past and even current ongoing ones, and have tried to stomp out left movements, been racist, sexist, and homophobic. But people have still supported the US and the Democratic party and called themselves leftist. The point is, I assume as I’m not a CCP Stan myself or anything, is to give critical support to back an actual socialist project and give a counterweight to a pure single superpower world (esp. When that superpower has destroyed or undermined almost every left project it can in the world). Critical support meaning you pick out the good from the bad, supporting the good and criticizing the bad. China actually puts a leash on its billionaires = good. But they seem to be forcing some cultural integration of Uyghurs = bad. But they’re providing lots of housing and cheap EV’s = good. But they can have bad working conditions = bad. But they’re helping support economies and infrastructure in the global South with the Belt and Road project = good. But they keep doing that shit with territory in the south seas = bad. But they seem to have a long-term plan for implementing communism that they are actually following = good. And so on. I do think some people go too far in being CCP supportive, but I also think some people on Lemmy go too far the other direction, and think everyone that gives the slightest critical support to China or analyzes some US propaganda on China a bit before swallowing it is a CCP troll.

In the end, it’s a mixed bag, but I do think there is some worth to not having a single hegemonic superpower in the world, so other leftist countries or colonized global south ones have alternative access to allies, trade, and support without bowing down to the US and their often reactionary policies. Cuba for example was doing pretty good until the Soviet Union fell and basically the only market became the western, US-controlled one that they had been mostly sanctioned the hell out of. I wish it was a better country than China, but hopefully they improve their social issues as they improve economically, which tends to be the pattern. I just wish they’d stop doing the aggressive maneuvers near the Philippines and Vietnam.

But I’ve only seen good things about the CCP on TikTok.

I think it is often more subtle than something like Tankies defending the CCP or Russia. A lot of people who call themselves left or progressive still think the world just needs the “correct” strong-man, when one of the biggest defining things of “left” is going against engrained power structures.

While it is possible to be left-ish and support particular leaders, it is seldom a sign of an actually enlightened person if they think only a “strong man” can fix things. Tankies fit squarely in the center of that, but there are LARGE fringes where people seriously do not understand some of the core axioms of “left” politics while also not being full blown tankies.

agreed. but some people can’t really decipher what some politicians say because they don’t inform themselves enough, or didn’t learn.

While I agree largely with your conclusion that anti progressive ideas are pushed to undermine progressive spaces, I don’t really agree with how you get there and with the examples you choose to arrive at that conclusion. There obviously are actual bad actors, and actual hegemony to get these bad actors into being, but there is also a lot of real people, actually still learning about the topics, or just plainly with a different perspective on some of the issues that you might be discussing.

For it to be an ideology that is self consistent leftism actually needs differences and disagreement, or said in another way: if we were to prescribe beliefs instead of trying to teach them we’d also just be trying to build our “own” authoritarian hegemony. I can invoke successes of or defend the CCP and the soviets just as I can invoke successes of the US or EU or India realizing that all states are fundamentally bad, still sometimes perhaps by accident they do good things. And that examples and mental shortcuts, as well as actual experiments that might be of a socialist nature, are just what they are argumentative tools.

I’ve been called a tankie just because I see the downfall or backsliding of the US as good thing and don’t really accept that china would be as bad as the US has been for the last 40 years or so. Which is perfectly normal for someone who doesn’t really reap the benefits of US hegemony, and sort of just ranks authoritarian institutions by size(strength)(wealth) to arrive at a measure of subjective dislike.

It’s almost similar to someone calling me a tankie because I purchase Pepsi instead of coca cola on that given day, when we all know I should make my own tea or at least just buy the supermarket/local brand to begin with.

I don’t know where you are and what kind of people you meet on a regular basis but to me the simple and fast ways of understanding other people almost never hold true, most of us humans just lead to complicated lives to easily subjectify us. And honestly I wish most leftists would not try to subjectify other people to begin with.

I think what annoys me is when people assume I support shit like the CCP or Putin just because of my leftist views, or because I didn’t make sure to criticize them every single time I criticize anything/anyone else (good ol’ whataboutism). The amount of times I’ve been attacked by supposed leftists that are really just liberals in disguise, is far too high.

“Hey, you didn’t criticize Putin in your comment that clearly isn’t even about Putin in any way, so I’m going to make a sweeping assumption and say that you support him.”

Don’t criticize Biden here, or they automatically say that you want Cheeto Hitler to win and you’re actually a fascist. So many people fail to see that their commentary and childish reductionism is counterproductive to a leftist movement. They also fail to see that what they’re doing is a tactic of neoliberals and fascists. It’s divisive language that solves nothing, and is used to always keep the opposition in a defensive stance. We’re seeing it first hand today with Israel and the US government repeatedly stating that defending Palestine is considered antisemitism. They went as far as redefining the word entirely just so they can drown out the peace movement with noise.

Isn’t that the point of the meme? Leftists can share 94% of views, but if they disagree on one thing they are treated as the worst enemy, rather than the people who share 0% of the same views.

thats because china is not right wing. we defend the mostly good things accomplished by the current and past socislist experiments in eg. cuba, china, ussr etc, not the bad things that happened there in the way here. the world is not black and white.

we MLs advocate for learning with past experiments and we were never urging anyone to view the tiannamen incident, the ukraine incident or similar, as exaggerated and propagandized as they were by the west as a good thing we should repeat. we don’t want bad things repeated.

You leftists sure are a contentious bunch.

Regarding point #2:

I am very particular about whom I allow into my circle of trust. That last 6% doesn’t seem like much, but it is to me; if you don’t believe every Nazi has a backpfeifengesicht, think capitalism should be “tweaked” instead of demolished, or complain about BLM or Pro-Palestinian protestors causing damage, then we’re not gonna be best friends.

That being said, that 6% isn’t nearly enough for me to consider you the enemy. Billionaires and the fascists they inspire are the enemies, and no attempt they make to divide and conquer us will ever be successful. I will march and scream alongside you in favor of the 94% we have in common.

I’m gonna have to disagree. Here’s my essay on why:

So .ml would be the worst offender for how quickly they ban anyone who steps outside a particular ML orthodoxy?

Removed by mod

Soooo whens the genocide against MAGA? That’s a genocide I can get behind

This should be required reading in every school

CIA’s Simple Sabotage Field Manual

https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/SimpleSabotage.pdf

for anyone interested :)

I can get behind that. I’m not nearly as left as a lot of folks on this platform but in the US we’re so far to the right that at this point we should all just be pulling left. We can duke it out once we move the Overton Window a bit.

Of all -isms that’s probably Platformism. Whatever helps reach the goal. I find that pragmatic and rational.

I slightly disagree with you here so obviously YOU are the fed!

/s

You’ve just made an enemy for life!

You lefty’s

This bothers me more than any political disagreement ever will.

This is the third time this week in the last hour

Malcolm X had similar things to say

Those damn splitters!

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”

He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.

–Emo Philips.

If you’re motivated, I recommend this video (peertube) where he does an exegesis about Jesus, who becomes the most radical lefty against the church.

And the leftists mistakenly think they’re the majority.

None of them will receive votes from the 3