Saying you’re the one true leftist is the 420th kind of liberalism.

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Lol same pipeline here.

Similar pipeline here. Hanging around in all the I suppose you could call them “utopian left” spaces and being patted on the head “you’ll wise up when you’re older” followed by a “refutation” of whatever I suggested that itself demonstrated that they hadn’t actually listened to a word I said. Even some ideas I explored by advocating for them and later decided were flawed, it still burns me that people who otherwise accepted me as a reasonably intelligent person would take an idea I shared with them so lightly as to not listen. That primed me for the “if you aren’t going to participate constructively in good faith then you can fuck off” space that was CTH

They can’t stop talking about us in hushed, dreaded tones that create curiosity.

Or if you even suggest that a few border regions in Ukraine, once a stalemate was basically reached, aren’t worth the displacement of millions of people, deaths of (ultimately) a few hundred thousand+ people, destruction of the built environment of huge swaths of Ukraine outside of those regions, and the probable failure of some UA refugees to integrate elsewhere ultimately leading to “terrorism” (probably just CIA) in mainland Europe as thin justification for future US occupation of somewhere.

There’s foreign aid in the face of an invasion, regardless of whether it was or to what degree it may have been provoked it’s still an aggressive invasion that reveals a tremendous lack of imagination and foresight amongst Russian leadership. There’s also such a thing as dumping fuel on a fire while knowing who gets to cut the loans to rebuild, and knowing who gets the friendly relations in the post-war government to secure Ukraine’s plant, mineral, and labour resources for pennies on the dollar whilst they’re under the heel of austerity…

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Just like how Washington Post and Financial Times are CLEARLY Russian propaganda…

Libs literally view the world in G.W. Bush “If you are not with us you are against us” style thinking you find in popular children’s fiction.

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exactly.
if/when people ask “do you actually support ukraine or russia?” here and mean it in good faith, I swear most answers line up with “both are cappie fash shitholes, we only support the working class of both countries and want them to stop fucking dying”

Why are we feeling that a Russian victory in Ukraine is preferable? I had heard a Belarusian anarchist fighter reach the exact opposite conclusion:

If Russia wins here, there will be no independent trade unions, no human rights organizations, no grassroots structures for self-defense against the arbitrary rule of officials and the police. […] There are no other options but armed resistance to the fascist regime that attacked Ukraine today. And you have to understand that today’s war in Ukraine opens up a huge field of opportunity for anarchists which is important not to miss. For the first time in almost 100 years, we can now create a major political-military organization. […] We are well aware that after the war, we will have clashes with the ultra-right, and with the state, which will attack the freedom and rights of the people. We understand very well that in the future the experience we will gain here, these structures, which we have to create here now, will be useful to us in our further struggle for a free Ukraine. […] Another path awaits us - a dangerous path, full of compromise, full of pain in suffering and loss. But it is a path that can lead us to the emergence of a new, powerful, liberating movement, which can then change the whole picture in the region, later in Europe, and maybe in the whole world. […] The last thing I want to say is to appeal to our Western comrades: we don’t need your westsplaing, we need your solidarity.

Which seems like pretty persuasive reasoning to me.

As someone who’s probably made one of the comments you’re referring to, it’s less “give Putin what he wants” and more “this war is unwinnable for Ukraine, it should cut its losses (territories that largely don’t want to stay in Ukraine anyway) and negotiate.”

Appeasement doesn’t factor in because Russia has already won what it wants, and continuing a bloody stalemate will be worse for Ukraine than for Russia. Ukraine’s position can only get weaker here.

See what I don’t understand is even if this were true, how is this any different than how American liberals treat countries they illegally invade? Your literal only defense against criticism is “Whataboutism!”.

You will not treat America or Americans the same for occupying Afghanistan for 20 years as you treat Russia and Russians for doing something vaguely similar with far less casualties

Lol you got nothing

The whole ‘appeasement doesn’t work’ argument is understandable, but the only alternative is fighting and dying in the tens of millions in the vain hope that a global superpower will lose to a relatively small, fractional country plagued by instability, military incompetence, and corruption. It’s also not really applicable anyway, while Russia is far more interested in security and stability than global domination.

Either way, there is the short-term solution middle ground of “let’s negotiate on terms that help ensure everyone’s future security (including at least some degree of denazification) to prevent further wars”. Which I think is what most Hexbearians would want in terms of peace. Obviously the long-term issue is that nationstates as they exist are inherently warmongering and that cannot be stopped without fundamental change.

Let’s see those links, champ

This clearly isn’t pro-putin though it’s anti-war. Those people are intentionally conflating being pro-putin with any attempt to stop the war because they are bloodthirsty liberals detached from the horror this is causing and crucially - they want the war to continue.

None of us are happy this war is happening. The position of trying to get it to end as quickly as possible through any means isn’t pro-putin. It’s pro-human lives.

I’d like to point out some historical examples of how that argument has been used time and time again to push aside any attempts at diplomacy and justify what in hindsight were plainly needless wars of aggression, but which seemed quite justified to people at the time (at least when it started).

I think many of us have more complex views on the conflict, but most people aren’t interested in hearing us out or learning about this history of the conflict, so it’s easier to just say, “Look, practically speaking, Ukraine doesn’t have the capabilities to reclaim all their territories and it’s just going to cause a lot of pointless death if they tried.” And I do believe that’s true, but I’d still be calling for peace if I didn’t.

For the record, I fully support the use of military force to subdue the Hungarian uprising and it should have happened before the uprising started murdering Jewish people in the street.

Which makes me a tankie.

Stalin was too timid. If he acted sooner then the pogroms wouldn’t have started.