No link because I found the image on twitter.
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Didn’t Lucas explicitly confirm the Vietnam metaphor? I remember him saying the “you’re either with me or you’re against me” line was written with Nixon in mind.
Yes he did. He said the rebels were based on the Viet Cong.
I’ll just leave this here, where George Lucas explicitly confirms the rebels were the communist Vietnamese and the Empire is america: https://youtu.be/Nxl3IoHKQ8c?t=56
And he explicitly corrects the interviewer when they attempt to call them the “English Empire” instead.
Lucas brings up the American Revolutionary War (he said something about “hayseeds in coonskin hats”) as a parallel to the Vietnam War, probably to smooth over the discomfort the lib interviewer has with characterizing the modern and 60’s US as the evil empire. So I don’t think that’s a correction, more like an insistence on continuing the parallel.
Side note, that turn of phrase was a masterful way to prevent/delay the interviewer from dismissing the viet kong as “terrorists.” Lucas is extremely sharp. I definitely couldn’t have directed the conversation as effectively.
Yeah he’s absolutely trying to make sure there that it is explicitly understood that is the American empire not just an “evil” empire that you can swap to anyone else.
I don’t like that Cameron seems to be putting words in Lucas’s mouth. Lucas was good at getting his points across though.
I just realized the interviewer is James Cameron, lol. Well, Cameron focused more on European imperialism in Avatar, but maybe I’m not giving him quite enough credit.
Didn’t a lot of early CPV propaganda use the same American Revolution imagery in an appeal to the west?
Ho Chi Minh famously wrote a letter to Truman asking for American support in their war against the French because they were trying to do the same thing the US in their revolution. he believed the propaganda and got bitten by the reality - Truman never replied.
George Lucas almost directed Apocalypse Now during the Vietnam war. John Milius wanted to film on location in South Vietnam.
wasn’t that Coppola? do you mean Lucas almost got it instead?
I had to look it up but yeah, Lucas was originally supposed to direct it with Coppola producing.
Georgie-boy is cooler than most people would admit
But also why is the camera constantly moving in that show? its supposed to be just an interview with the standard shots. why does the camera constantly swivel around them and why does it keep cutting to a cam thats directly behind a fuckin floodlight
Wasn’t Lucas also the directer who said that even soviet filmmakers had more freedom of expression than he did?
IIRC he said they had greater freedom in what they could make because they weren’t pushed to produce as much profit as possible like he was, even if they needed to steer clear of censors. It makes a lot of sense, he is from the era where the soviet filmmakers were putting out some excellent films. And obv because capitalism kills art.
he corrects the interviewer
That is James Fucking Cameron.
I have no idea what he looks like lmao
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Empire Did Nothing Wrong memes and associated interpretations of Star Wars (cough palpatine was AKTUALLY preparing for the yuzang vong cough) are a result of people making the connection that the Empire = America but being unable to admit to or acknowledge America’s many crimes around the world, so they decide that the Empire was actually cool and based for napalming Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen, and Alderaan was harbouring terrorists so they git what was coming to them
Actually I’m just going to paste a previous comment of mine here since there’s no point t it typing it out all over again:
Empire did nothing wrong memes are literally just a pipeline to fash ideology. I would say I don’t understand why people began to sympathize with the obviously fascist stand in that is the empire, but I have a theory.
The empire, especially in the Lucas films, represents the American empire and their post-ww2 imperialist projects. Meanwhile, the rebels represent anti-imperialist fighters. In A New Hope, we see how the imperialist occupiers create or expand opposition to themselves through their actions. Luke at the beginning of the movie still dreams of going off to the imperial academy and joining the empire. However, reality ensues and he experiences firsthand violent oppression at the hands of the empire, losing his family and home in a napalm bombing drone strike stormtrooper attack. This of course begins his radicalization and causes him to commit himself to combat the empire.
Now of course this introduces a contradiction into the mind of the average american viewer. On one hand, it is obvious why Luke dedicates himself to the destruction of the empire, it is the force that murders his family and countless others (multiple american invasions Alderaan). However, this also causes the average american to think about why people around the earth hate america, and if it could be related to the decades of american military actions around the globe. For some, this may be the wake up call that causes them to think “hey, are we the baddies?”. For others, they have to go in the opposite direction. The Empire’s actions are America’s actions, and america can’t be the bad guy so the Empire can’t be the bad guy! There must be more nuance™ to this empire who’s stormtroopers murder an innocent farming family and later annihilate a planet.
Or they’re just fash that loves the mainstream acceptability of fascist inspired symbolism
I bet one could also synthesize that with things like the trend towards darker and edgier antihero stories that hit its stride in the 90s and how much liberal storytelling has leaned on vapid aesthetic tropes to delineate villains and heroes.
The Empire is the US, and it acts like the US, and to drive home to American audiences that despite the Empire acting like the US they were the bad guys Star Wars steeps them in Fascist aesthetics. Then you get another generation of Americans raised on darker and edgier media where the heroes are also villainous, and lazy stories where instead of making the villains villainous they just toss some allusions to Fascist aesthetics on them and call it a day, and just outright Fascist media like CoD, so when they look at Star Wars they just see America doing normalized things and looking powerful doing it.
Like I think it’s not exclusively a problem with Star Wars but rather an entire media environment that helps socialize people towards making fascist conclusions, caused by the collaboration of liberals and fascists in Hollywood, in the comics industry, and in the games industry, as well as liberal creations tending to be vapid and aesthetics based things that can never really criticize the status quo (to which the whole darker and edgier trend was also a reaction). There’s also a point to be made about how much American counter-culture has been reactionary and libertine instead of liberationist, and as those reactionary and libertine elements got mainstreamed they pivoted towards fascism as they started to perceive the left as a threat to their treats.
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god if there’s anything more frustrating than the liberal fixation on aesthetics, I don’t know what it is.
I always thought the whole Empire Did Nothing Wrong meme started out as an ironic attempt to deconstruct real world apologia by applying the same style of rhetoric to a case where the subject is inescapably evil because it’s a fiction where that evil can simply be asserted. It’s a testament to the propagandization of the West that even satire as blatant as ‘Luke Skywalker was a terrorist who killed thousands of innocent stormtroopers stationed on the Freedom Star’ is treated as a bridge towards decreasingly ironic expressions of support for cartoon fascism rather than criticism of the fascistic tendencies in America.
Then again I also thought for a while that the attack helicopter meme was supposed to be in support of the trans community and based on frustration at the otherkin phenomenon for appropriating and trivializing the language, experience and struggles of trans people.
started out as an ironic attempt
So did 4chan nazi takes.
There is definitely a correlation with people who like the prequels (just the movies I haven’t watched the cartoons) and people who are drawn fascist ideology. I’m not sure if its because r/prequelmemes was frequented by fascists and it bled over, or if those are people who just like shitty media. Prequelmemes had its roots in Red Letter Media’s Mr Plinkett reviews of the films. Almost all the original posts were aping quotes from their videos, but they were soon drowned out by people who thought they were in good company.
I’m pretty sure the prequels are, if anything, more leftist than the originals. they show quite clearly the problems inherent in liberal projects and how liberalism turns into fascism during periods of crisis. that doesn’t stop the libs and fash from missing the forest for the trees, but the actual content does not support them.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Empire Did Nothing Wrong memes and associated interpretations of Star Wars (cough palpatine was AKTUALLY preparing for the yuzang vong cough)
I hate that too because it’s stupid nerd shit in books that are not even canon anymore. Empire are literally space nazis in these movies, you’re rooting for fascists.
It wasn’t even canon in the books! It was almost entirely speculation by empire apologist weirdos when in reality the empire throughout 99% of the EU was just cacklingly evil. That is, until they were “rehabilitated”, said they were really sorry, drained the swamp, and became a good and proper liberal democracy just like the new republic 🙂
“Don’t make my favorite childhood story political.”
You mean besides the fact that it is explicitly a political story?
I’ve had bazingas argue to me that fucking GI JOE was “nonpolitical” and even said “did anyone ever tell you… the curtains are fucking blue?”
staring at blue curtains
“Why do you have to make everything about interior furnishings?!”
:are-we-the-baddies:
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Please explain number 2
“War is the continuation of politics by other means.”
Possibly the dumbest response I’ve ever seen lmao
“War is war and politics is politics”
-Some moron that always insisted the curtains were just blue
This clip, but for explaining how wars are political
He claims he was being ironic while also dismissing the allegory as something Lucas made up decades later.
Oh god, that’s some very painful stuff. When he says “I’m 40, I’ll still be able to sleep at night” you just know he’s stayed awake thinking about this at least 20 times.
When he says “I’m 40, I’ll still be able to sleep at night” you just know he’s stayed awake thinking about this at least 20 times.
Significant chance that he calls himself a “grown-ass man,” too.
He claims he was being ironic
People that claim to be “ironic” when being assholes/nazis should always be called out that they’re still being assholes/nazis.
They are so close they should be able to taste it
And once they do ‘get it’, they will just realize that the Empire is cool.
Star wars fan not be fash challenge (impossible)
According to the average Star Wars fanboy, atrocities and inflicting suffering is cool and good if you feel sufficiently detached from it like a DAE LE GREY JEDI
“I just like dressing up as a stormtrooper because I think they look badass, please do not examine my politics.”
“The Empire wasn’t really evil in day to day operation for most citizens who obeyed the law.”
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She always calls the players’ decisions stupid no matter what they are. That’s because she was speaking in bad faith and had a hidden agenda all along but a lot of credulous rubes went bazinga over her apparent Enlightened Centrism and some were even down with her Enlightened Self Interest.
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But it would give total FREEDOM from the Force that is already established in the fiction to surround, penetrate, and bind the galaxy together.
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One of my lib friends is super against communism and his favorite show is Deep Space 9. He accidentally got an Engles quote tattooed on his arm because of the show. He thinks the episode “Past Tense” is a warning about why we shouldn’t build housing for poor people.
that’s hilarious. which quote? do you think if he knew its origin he’d get it lasered off?
Of course politics can add authenticity to a narrative. Because it helps connect the dots in your head to current things you are experiencing. If politics didn’t add anything it wouldn’t resonate with the audience and authors wouldn’t bother with it.
But even that analysis is a bridge too far for the treat hogs.
Libs finding out they’re actually cheering on Luke “Viet Kong” Skywalker.
“In order to not be political, you should be forced to follow the Haye’s code even though it has been long abolished for the default political viewpoint’s comfort.”
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“What if it has super cool edgy Grey Jedi that are badasses and do whatever they want with all the cool powers and no uncool negative labeling and minimal downsides? Also maybe have the Empire but with less preachy messages about how they’re bad. Make them awesome and sympathetic.”
Can’t wait to see 37 libs come in here in a couple hours and start
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sorry lol its tiny on my end
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Oh my god, it has no sound but I can hear it.
Didn’t he explicitly base parts of the Empire off the US?
Yup. He also gave Imperial officers Nazi Germany aesthetics and called their infantry Storm Troops while having Imperial political leaders saying stuff that were exact quotes of US presidents.
having Imperial political leaders saying stuff that were exact quotes of US presidents.
Okay I need a source for this so I can use it against libs.
Lol, lmao, even
