I think what’s extra dangerous about Tylenol is that it doesnt feel like it’s doing anything. When it works, some minor pain goes away, or maybe your fever goes down. But there’s no side effects that you really feel, so I bet people get a false sense of security with it. Like, oh it isn’t giving me opioid euphoria, or knocking me out. And you can just buy as much as you want, no restrictions. It must be perfectly safe.
Tylenol: that’s a brand of paracetamol for non US people.
I think paracetamol/acetaminophen being barely perceptible is why I’ll always feel safer with opioids, THC, or even NMDA antagonists like ketamine in a pinch–as someone who is extremely informed with this particular subject.
I blame autism.
If a compound is barely effective, causes liver damage (particularly with other compounds metabolised in the liver), and has a bunch of negative interactions… sorry, it’s garbage. I genuinely would rather go darknet than CVS or Walgreens, and test for purity. Besides, dealers are generally way cooler than corpos anyway.
I hope that nobody takes it as an invitation, though–I said I’m informed. If you’re not informed, don’t.
I will add this; Paracetamol? Almost placebo. Phenylephrine? Actually placebo. Guaifenesin? Placebo if taken orally. Practically the entire counter is placebo, except for the antihistamines (first/second generation like diphenhydramine/Benadryl and cetirizine/Zyrtec) and nasal cleaners and such. With that in mind, I would encourage people to research absolutely everything they ingest, regardless of how safe the product may seem.
They are certainly not 100% safe.
This should go without saying (probably preaching to a choir), but legal ≠ safe, indeed. Still waiting on that thesaurus to prove me wrong. It’s been 3 years.
Stay smart, and stay safe.
There is a brand mixing acetylsalicylic acid and koffein which works wonders as a quick relief for migraine while my standard naproxen usually requires a few hours of darkness to start working, so I can’t agree that all over the counter meds are garbage. I can’t refute your placebo claims since the effect cant be measured by myself
Shoot, I forgot aspirin! It actually is a genuinely effective painkiller. Mixed with caffeine, and you pretty much have Excedrin. My mother has very bad migraines, and it is true that this formula just works, for some reason.
Excedrin is a good product. If you have a migraine, I’d suggest taking it. I will add that my mother seems addicted to it, though–taking it on the daily multiple times, even if a headache is mild.
Be careful!
Nothing is perfectly safe. You can kill yourself with water poisoning, and that’s pumped directly into your house.
how the fuck did they find a donor so fast???
I got a heart transplant about 18 hours after being added to the list.
serious question, but how?
Got lucky I suppose, as “lucky” as waiting or someone to die so you can live can be. They did warn me it could be weeks before I hear anything.
edit- I was also pretty high priority (or whatever it might be referred to as) being in my early 30’s when it happened, not a drug user, and generally take good care of myself.
for science, can i ask about your income level? just want to be happy for once today, if it really was luck.
Unemployed. Had some extremely helpful people get me on state assistance while I was being treated.
i’m glad it worked out for you
Depends, who’s your liver guy?
Fake story
Couldn’t they have given the liver to someone who was less of an idiot?
Ex alcoholic and “cirrhosis survivor” here. (I hate that latter term.)
I’m stunned that this situation went down how it did.
I had the full jaundice package when I finally went into the hospital and agreed to detox. I was told I would have to be booze-free for a minimum of six months to be considered for a transplant of any kind; both my liver and kidneys were in concerning shape.
They told me the timeframe for actually being considered was more like two years; there’s basically a board of trustees for each state, they review every case requesting an organ transplant and decide who gets what. (It’s literally a death panel, haha.)
No matter how good I was/am, I would still be at the very lowest priority. They’d have to have available livers as far as the eye can see for me to have a realistic chance. There is no actual chance I would ever get a donor liver, and I don’t want one.
I was dumb. I did it completely to myself. It’s not as simple as “you could’ve quit anytime you wanted,” trying to do that with alcohol is extraordinarily dangerous, BUT I did indeed do this to myself. It would be galactic levels of unethical and immoral for me to be trying to take a donor liver away from ANYONE.
I have since recovered way past the expectations of any medical personnel who worked on me during that time. July 1 will be two years alcohol-free for me.
My point in all of this is that I’m honestly having trouble believing this guy got this transplant at all, let alone so fast.
Organs don’t keep… If they got the donor it probably meant there wasn’t anybody else queued up.
Is this real? Who gets a liver donor in 4 days?
The liver damage is very believable but a liver transplant after 4 days is absurd.
The only way it happened is if people who need a liver but not because of alcohol-related damage are pushed to the top of the list. The alcoholics would basically be last in line. Some might say that’s discriminatory, but it’s perfectly normal to triage patients and provide care to the ones with more immediate needs, or the ones most likely to survive. Doctors have to make judgement calls.
Or even need a liver transplant in this situation.
The liver heals itself so removing the paracetamol that caused the failure would allow the liver to begin that healing process.
Four packs of Paracetamol will fuck up your liver beyond repair. Downing a blisterpack in one go can already kill you, let alone four.
It wasn’t even 4 packs, it was at least 12 packs, probably a bit more. Also how many are in a pack?
No organ magically heals itself, you’re not Wolverine. Liver damage is permanent, any dosage over 4 grams of paracetamol per 24 hours (typically four doses of two 500mg tablets) can cause liver damage. Let the damage accumulate, and you’ll go into liver failure. If the liver fails, you’ll have to hope you’re lucky enough to get a donor, or you’ll be counting down hours left in your life. Take good care of your body and be healthy, your older self will thank you.
No organ magically heals itself, you’re not Wolverine.
Why would it be magic? My skin heals itself. Bones heal themselves…
No organ magically heals itself, you’re not Wolverine
There are at least 2 organs that heal. First is your skin, if you consider that an organ. Wounds heal and often leave scars as a lasting reminder of the damage that was there.
The other organ is the liver, the scar tissue that occurs in the liver after healing is called cirrhosis.
Time is the factor you’re missing.
When the liver is damaged it stops doing it’s function. Removing the paracetamol doesn’t remove the damage, so the the liver is still not functioning. It would take a long time to recover the liver function after you’ve stopped taking the paracetamol. You can only live days without a functioning liver.
Hence, you’re dead.
He’s lucky it was just his liver. People who overdose or try to commit suicide with it are not in for a good time or quick death and after it’s absorbed into your body it will cause a systemic shutdown of several organs like the kidneys and pancreas. Not just the liver, and there’s absolutely no way to counteract this after that first 36 hours. You will die (you aren’t getting all of the organs replaced) and it will take days before you succumb. No antidote or life support or anything can be done for you.
You’ll feel fine the first day but may have some vomiting. By day 3 the jaundice and stomach pain sets in as the liver is first to show signs of the organs failure and it’s no longer possible to counteract the drug. By the fourth day your organs start shutting down and you’ll have much more pain and vomiting. All that can be done is get your affairs in order because you’ll be dead and in pain while you wait around to die and regret your suicide.
I say suicide because it’s almost always intentional. It usually takes 40 325mg pills to cause this, although the liver damage can be caused with 20+ pills in an adult, generally. If you think you’ve possibly overdosed get to the hospital quick and tell them what you’ve taken so they can start you on Acytylcystine. If you “feel fine” after the first day or so and think you’re all good you may be wrong and when day Tyree rolls around and your feeling bad or jaundiced your liver is already wrecked and can’t be fixed.
What’s a better pill to kill yourself with?
Cyanide
That’s extremely painful
Paracetamol overdoses are still worse though. Organ failure is long, painful and normally filled with regret.
Suicide by pills is a complete lottery unless you know the specific effects when taken in massive quantities. Most people don’t and assume overdoses will just be extensions of regular doses. “It’s a pain killer so I won’t feel anything” is really dumb logic.
Just better, a rusty hammer
Difficult to eat such a mighty meal
Propofol I think?
I could definitely think of a couple, but if you kill yourself, you’re letting trump win.
I’m not American
Oh don’t be so hard on yourself. Wanting to die doesn’t make you un-american.
Gonna need something stronger, noted.
Sounds like American healthcare to me.
You either cope, and probably cause irreparable hard to yourself, or you go to the clinic or ER and get labeled a drug seeker.
Americans don’t call it paracematol, they call it acetaminophen or just tylenol. This is from the UK.
Oh, shit! Guy OD’d on acetaminophen? Yeah, that is scary. My wife had a friend that attempted a self KO with Tylenol for some reason. What a horrible way to go. She is so lucky she didn’t need a transplant.
In LATAM the 3 are well known names for the same active medicines
fun fact, when you mix sinus medicines your blood can test positive for methamphetamine.
I know this because I am now on a list of meth addicts at every networked hospital after an er visit while treating a sinus infection.
they took four blood tests and “confirmed” I was high on meth and refused to treat why I was there in the first place because to them, I was high as shit. even though I was literally directing people around blood on the floor and calling for housekeeping to come clean up the blood on the floor because the nurse refused to do her fucking job.
I asked to be removed from the list as well as have the false test results removed from my history and was told that’s impossible.
doesn’t technology make things so much better? Now the best pain meds I’ll ever get at a hospital will be extra strength Tylenol. you know, that shit I have at home they charge me $400 a pill for.
Pseudoephedrine is the main ingredient in meth, that’s why they changed all the OTC sinus stuff to phenylephrine years ago, and why the OTC stuff doesn’t work worth a damn anymore.
My brother in Christ, the paracetamol box LITERALLY says to never go more than 4 grams (4000 mg) in a 24hs period on any mg pills presentation
And as far as I see, that’s a general rule with everything. Even those caramels for sore throat or reflux pills, where you’d need to eat thousands in a day to overdose, say the same
Don’t fuck with medicine dudes
You’re assuming he can read.
How big is a packet?
Off the shelf in the UK, they’re sold in packs of either 8 or 16 tablets, and shops are legally only allowed to sell you two packs at once. Pharmacies can of course supply larger quantities with a prescription.
The recommended dose is one or two 500mg tablets every 4 hours with a maximum of 8 tablets per day.
ok that helps. Over here you can get a bottle of 100 or more at one.
Yeah, I think this is what’s causing the confusion here. We don’t measure pills in “packets” in the US, so I think some people are taking “4 packets” to mean that they only took four pills and of course that’s absurd.
I think in UK paracetamol is sold over the counter in 28 x 500mg tablets most commonly. Larger packs or higher strengths are prescription only I think.
So 1 pack should last 3.5 days at the max adult dose of 8 per 24h - but I think it’d recommend seeing your doctor if you get into a second pack and you’re still using that maximum dosage.
Generally shops will limit sales to 2 packs, but it’s easy to shop around so that’s no limit.
I don’t know where you’d get packets of 28x500mg.
oops my memory failed.
It’d mostly be in 16s in the supermarket. So each pack is probably 2 days at the max dose.
Asking the real questions.
Kinda surprised you didn’t give some it answer
ITT: People who don’t know the difference between acute and chronic ODs and how a smaller amount over a long period can hurt you. 325mg APAP x4 will not kill you short term.
The problem was taking it every day over a long period.
Its still fucking stupid though.
I think the problem here is the word “packet” and what that means here exactly. Would be much more clear if they listed the amount of mg, or at the very least, how many pills are in a “packet”
I’m like 99% sure they took way more than just 4 Tylenol.
I’ve only ever seen “packets” contain two pills or capsules. 325x2x4= 2,600mg or 2.6g, well below the 8g average one time adult OD dose.
Taking less than 3g a day for <3 days is fine, although if you’re needing that much you probably should see a medical professional about something more tailored to your type of pain.
Really though way too many people in general have the idea pain killers of any type should remove all pain and in many cases, that’s not realistic without long term health complications.
Edit: lemmy did not like me using asterisks for multiplication.
Are you in the US too? Because I’ve only ever seen 2 pills in anything resembling a “packet” here as well.
However, other comments here seem to be implying that “packet” might have a different meaning in this context in Europe, with some suggesting it could be referring to an entire blister pack…
Just by the context in the OP itself, the implication is that this person took an absolute shit load of acetaminophen. Seemed to imply more than “just” 8 pills, which is still a lot but as you say, doesn’t seem like enough for an acute OD.
So I’m wondering if they have packets with more than just 2 pills over there.
325mg APAP x4 will not kill you short term.
Yeah I’m p sure the daily maximum on the package is 4k
My daughter’s dog that is a climber got on a shelf and knocked a basket off that had a large bottle of Tylenol in it. She chewed the bottle up.
I got home and saw some pills and a demolished bottle on the ground. Vet tech friend said to induce vomiting with hydrogen peroxide.
Didn’t have any of that, but I did have some minty mouthwash with peroxide and no xylitol in it. Dog willingly drank it, puked with foam, drank a bit more, puked more foam, then I dug through the mess.
No pills or any sign of the color on the pills. She’s still kicking.
induce vomiting with hydrogen peroxide.
Didn’t have any of that
how are you alive? H2O2 is like the basic necessity of every first aid kit. when you get a cut or scrape at home do you just like, ignore it?
do you even have bandaids or triple antibiotic ointment?
As far as I understand it, you shouldn’t put peroxide on most, or maybe even any, wounds. It indiscriminately kills good and bad bacteria as well as your body’s cells. So it can make the wound take much longer to heal.
Similar, but I think different, with iodine. You shouldn’t use it in most cases.
The recommendation is to use warm soapy water to rinse/clean the wound really good. That’s all.
If the wound is deep enough or gnarly enough that this doesn’t seem reasonable? Well, peroxide wasn’t gonna help you anyway, go to the doctor.
I’m happy to be wrong here, to be corrected. But this is how I understand it.
Also I do keep peroxide in my cupboard, as well as rubbing alcohol. Their uses just aren’t for wounds.
Peroxide is actually a pretty terrible wound cleanser. Does as much damage to the healing tissue as to any bacteria, which is why you seldom see it used in the hospital. Honestly you are better off with lots of clean warm water and mild soap. If you really want to get wild, find some true antibacterial soap with chlorhexidine (hibiclens is the big brand name in the US) and wash the wound with that. Just don’t use it on the face bc it’s really bad for the eyes.
I guess.
I grew up on a farm. every cut, stab, or scrape was done on some rusty, shit caked, dirty metal thing or some sharp blade covered in blood. so peroxide was always used because the risk of some bacteria left behind for infection was greater than the risk of scar tissue.
my wounds heal pretty quickly, so it’s not something I’ve had to deal with.
Just because we do something for a long time doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. In most cases, forceful irrigation with sterile saline is the best way to handle a dirty wound.
What a completely unnecessary comment
I see what you mean, but if mine was unnecessary, what does that make yours?
👍
I had intense tummy aches for 15 days where I couldn’t walk and needed to keep heat to my belly to even function, once my pain killers didn’t work, I didn’t push it, I just tried to handle the pain
I cried a lot in that time, it fucking sucked, but it sure was better than liver failure.
Let’s say the maximum recommended dose is the “dangerous dose.” That’s 4 grams. 20x4=80 grams of paracetamol/acetaminophen. That’s like 160 goddamn pills
The maximum recommended dose is generally much below the LD50 of a drug.
It also tends to be the maximum recommended dose for short term dosage for painkillers.
His issue was taking this for a long period.
I try and avoid painkillers whenever possible for two reasons:
- They’re crazy addictive
- They build tolerance, and when it comes time where taking them is unavoidable, I want them to work as well as possible.
Neither of these are true for acetaminophen/paracetamol though?
You can build a tolerance to both of those things, but their painkilling effectiveness is just not as strong as opiates.
Both of those are the same thing, and any chance of developing tolerance is very low.
Sorry, I was very tired - however, having taken ibuprofen for years - 2 pills will not give me the same pain relief as it did 10 years ago. I have to up it to 3, or 4. I’m not sure if this is tolerance or an increase in inflammation resulting in a need for a higher dose (hoping not).
Not that I would know, but don’t all medications build up tolerance?
Like, I was under the impression that medicinal benefits are like a side-effect to what the body might otherwise consider a foreign pathogen. Does acetaminophen not trigger any immune response?
With some exceptions for medications that use the immune system to target therapy (such as monoclonal antibodies) or drugs that target the immune system specifically, there is no immune response to most medications.
You wont build a tolerance unless you’re using it constantly. A few days for a pain a few times a year is meaningless for tolerance. As long as you RTFM, the hospital dose will always exceed your tolerance.
This doesn’t apply to opioids but I’d argue people make too big a deal about those as well, just don’t do them outside a prescription nor recreationally. You’re probably more addicted to taking a shit every now and then unless your life is already in the drain.
Just tell them you believe a billionaires earn their money, climate change is a hoax to sell books, and the solution to mass shootings is to sell more guns to more people.
You know, express the nonsensical opinions only a well deluded American is propagandized from birth to express with a straight face when they should be embarrassed at their belligerent ignorance.
American here: I know paracetamol is acetaminophen, but how much is a packet?
Depends on the country I guess.
Here, a packet is 16 tablets of 500mg (acetaminophen) or 200mg (ibuprofen).
We’re limited to 2 packets combined per purchase to reduce the chances of severe overdose.
Package dosing generally suggests 2 tablets per dose, with at least 4 hours between.
Or one tablet for children between 10 and 14.paracetamol packet
It looks like it’s a sheet of 6-8 pills
https://www.nps.org.au/news/paracetamol-ibuprofen-combinations-for-acute-pain
according to the acetaminophen i’ve got at home, dangerous dosage is >4g per day. that means that if 4 packets was 20x that, each packet would be 20g, which, if they’re normal 500mg pills, would be 40 pills per packet.
And a maximum of 2g/day if you weigh under 50kg (which not a lot of people know).
you should stick to 3g a day if you’re overall a small person, some bottles will recommend this as the max to be safe
3-4000mg is toxic to the liver.
Therapeutic dose of acetaminophen is 15 mg/kg q6h prn. That dose of 4g/day ==> 1g/dose. 1000mg/(15mg/kg) = 66.67kg == 145lb.
That’s the minimum weight for that acetaminophen dosing. If you’re under that weight, you can consider the reduced dose. If you’re over 145lb, no need to worry. And honestly, I think I’m the only one who actually doses this stuff q6h anyway. I think most people end up doing TID dosing because that allows uninterrupted sleep.
Various countries limit painkillers to small packet sizes (e.g. 20 pills here in Germany) and pharmacies only hand them out one at a time, so you can’t overdose as easily/spontaneously, either like the person in the post did due to pain, or for suicidal purposes.
It’s not perfect protection, as you can just go to multiple pharmacies to buy multiple packets, but yeah, you will have to actually go do that and will get told at the pharmacy that you shouldn’t take more, if you’re not aware.Yikes! The use of the term “packet” was initially confusing to me. Here in the States it’s not uncommon to see small packets of a single dose of over the counter medicines in gas stations and convenience stores for when you’re not at home and something comes up. The directions for extra strength Tylenol are 2 every 6hrs (1000mg dose) not exceeding 3 doses per day.
I was thinking “4 packets over 3 days, what’s the big deal?”
they sell blister packs for tyelenol, but its usually thr brand name, which is pretty expensive.
Worth noting as well that the OP said four packs a day for three days.
i heard some people fitness takes these so they can train excessively longer than normal. it was a news article a certain group was discussing, and they were tellinig a story of a dude doing that, that guy got addicted for sure to the pain meds, because they said he couldnt do anything without them.
America… I remember seeing “value packs” of Tylenol containing 300 pills… that’s their idea of freedom… to allow people the choice of slow and agonizing suicide by liver failure
kids were trying to robotrip on dextrotomorphan, and now they require ID to buy any cold medicine that contains it.
Ironically, for America, this is one area where you are expected to read the label and not be an absolute idiot.
Exactly, I know I can take 2 a day and a couple days and if the pain persists I ought to seek out medical help.
We know how to follow directions, we’re just not fucking gonna
The bottle on my shelf has 350 (new, Costco brand) but I don’t take over the recommended dose for obvious reasons. Guess it expired last year now that I look heh. The smaller bottles cost more per dose so no reason not buy a larger one. This is in Canada, not the US for people curious about other countries.
they sell larger bulk bottles, usually i buy them on amazon, in-stores are usually more expensive. i also use naproxen too.
That math doesn’t quite add up. Sure less per dose sounds good, but if you’re wasting half the bottle then paying a little more per dose but less total cost is still more economical.
i buy the larger ones online. better than buying the small ones. i do this for anti-histamines too, because i got allergies, i can get 1000tablets for the 1st generations easy, and cheaper pricing for the 2nd generation ones years worth. kirkland has the quality to it, im trying some off-brand(probably chinese made) doesnt seem as effective, and it was a wierd shape.
It may be less effective but you use it till the bottle is done, it’s not like milk it still works.
I wouldn’t do that because i can’t find any information on what that stuff breaks down when it ages and whether toxicity actually goes up over time
Well, generally you’re only supposed to take ~2 tablets at a time, so 10? 40 pills a day is 13,000mg of acetaminophen, or 20,000mg if they’re extra strength.
That’s, uh, bad. You’re recommended to take under 4000mg per day, so that’d be a bit over a packet? Makes sense to me.
For the record, mixing two painkillers without consulting a doctor is also usually a bad idea but way fucking less of a bad idea than taking 13000mg of tylenol in a day. Afaik, acetaminophen with other stuff is probably fine but napoxen, ibuprofen, and aspirin all work roughly the same way and shouldn’t be mixed.
For the record, mixing two painkillers without consulting a doctor is also usually a bad idea but way fucking less of a bad idea than taking 13000mg of tylenol in a day.
Basically, if something hurts so much that you might take enough paracetamol/acetaminophen to fuck with your liver then you yes, you should be under a doctor’s care. That said, between my wife and me, we’ve had three or four doctors over the years all be very chill with the idea of alternating Tylenol and Ibuprofen after surgery or the like. I guess they work on such different chemical pathways that they don’t have much interaction potential, and keeping under the daily dose of Tylenol in particular is incredibly important, as we’ve seen in this thread.
tyelonol works on the liver, the others like ibuprofen, naproxen,etc works by inhibiting the cox1 and 2 enzymes. of courses take 2 much of the inhibitors is very similar to aspirin, it can prevent clotting(which in itself is a therapeuthic uses for clotting disorders)
They act on different systems, yes, but this is more about the metabolism of each.
Non-steroidal-anti-inflamatorirs can cause damage to your stomach and kidneys.
Acetaminophen/Paracetol metabolizes in the liver a similar way alcohol does, and like alcohol has a maximum rate of clearing the toxin.
yes, you should be under a doctor’s care.
That’s not always an option, unfortunately, but it’s definitely accurate.
Don’t take my word for it but I think paracetamol and ibuprofen with added codeine can be taken together despite the double codeine as the amount they have is low enough that double is still safe.
Check with a pharmacist first, dosages are going to vary and I am just some guy on the internet.
I don’t think there’s a standard size, but I know they sell them in packages of 3x10 where I live. Eating 4 full packets of those in a day would put you at 15 times the upper recommended daily dosage, for what it’s worth, which is calculated slightly conservatively to not be lethal for any adults
You can also often get high-strength pills for chronic pain that are 665mg instead of the regular 500mg.
the ones for arthiritis, is around 625mg, with caffiene. i had 500mg naproxen Rx for buristis once, it can cause stomach issues, because it turns on inflammation, so the acid levels increase and can cause things like heartburns.
I believe I’ve seen them sold in 1g pills where I live as well.
Reading the meme it seems like a packet is five times the dangerous dosage.
