Those who didn’t vote, who thought their vote didn’t matter, that no matter which politician gets elected to whatever office… they’re complicit.
The only significantly statically impactful group of “non voters” is the population that was unable to or inconvenienced heavily by voting.
Meaning the major majority of voters that didn’t vote were either unable to because of other obligations (work, childcare, etc) with a small subset of that being people that were no motivated enough to deal with the inconvenience of visiting a poll line (4hours in line) after a 10 hour shift.
These are the vast vast majority of people that did not show up. Beyond that an even smaller percentage was the "protest voters’ that even if 100% of which went to Harris she still would have lost.
I guess I just want to say “in conclusion” that the vast majority of voters that didn’t vote were giving you your Starbucks or your Taco Bell.
I think we should spend less time blaming voters and more time being critical of the politicians and party that gives zero reason for the working class to “risk” their shift for.
No one’s gonna “risk a shift” for the policies and messaging that Harris communicated. You don’t get people to “risk their shift” for voting for a lesser evil.
Sometimes i get the feeling that voting on a tuesday is working as expected: to keep working an poor people from voting…
Germany has voting per defintion only on sundays, and (at least where i live) the voting booths are everywhere. You can vote either per mail, or from 8:00 to 18:00 at a booth, and i never had to wait in a line to vote, and i’m in my 40s
No it’s the voters fault. Never forget. \s
Dw in canada the voter turn out is 18 percent.
I got a mail in ballot because I knew I wouldn’t have time to make it on Voting Day
Of course, in-person early voting is a safer bet.
Mailing in your ballot puts it at a significantly higher chance of being discarded.
not everyone lives in that kind of state here in the UnUnited States of America
Almost all of us do
I really appreciate your comment, because here we are months later and still a lot of folks don’t seem to be getting the big picture.
Maybe they need someone to blame other than the GOP, and folks who didn’t vote are the easiest target.
the population that was unable to or inconvenienced heavily by voting.
Voting early or by mail was available to:
-Alaska
-Arizona
-Arkansas
-California: All active, registered voters automatically receive ballot.
-Colorado: All active, registered voters automatically receive ballot.
-D.C.: All active, registered voters automatically receive ballot.
-Delaware
-Florida
-Georgia
-Hawaii: All active, registered voters automatically receive ballot.
-Idaho
-Illinois
-Iowa
-Kansas
-Maine
-Maryland
-Massachusetts
-Michigan
-Minnesota
-Montana
-Nebraska
-Nevada: All active, registered voters automatically receive ballot.
-New Jersey
-New Mexico
-New York
-North Carolina
-North Dakota
-Ohio
-Oklahoma
-Oregon: All active, registered voters automatically receive ballot.
-Pennsylvania
-Rhode Island
-South Dakota
-Utah: All active, registered voters automatically receive ballot.
-Vermont: All active, registered voters automatically receive ballot.
-Virginia
-Washington: All active, registered voters automatically receive ballot.
-Wisconsin
-WyomingI’m not saying people don’t have tough lives, but it has been made pretty available to a lot of people at this point.
Note that there’s some asterisks on there.
Some of those states require you to get your ballot notarized and/or signed by witnesses. Incidentally this opens the door for voter intimidation since your witness is likely to be a spouse.
Also, you have scenarios like NC where they are trying to retroactively toss ballots that were counted, and mail in opens the door for “something wasn’t quite proper about the ballot, discard it”.
If you absolutely, positively, can not vote in person at all, then try your luck with mail in ballots, but if at all possible vote in person if you want the best chance for your vote to count.
I lived in a few different states and I’ve never lived some place where folks didn’t have 30 days to vote early and in person. I’m NOT talking about mail in whatever. 30 days! Just drop by. Not crowded. Not a big deal.
I guess I just want to say “in conclusion” that the vast majority of voters that didn’t vote were giving you your Starbucks or your Taco Bell.
This is a very clear and succinct description of something I’ve been struggling to articulate for years. Affluent liberals can tell their boss they’re taking a long lunch to vote, and they don’t understand why shift workers don’t do the same.
Other countries vote on Sundays, US could do the same.
Also mail in voting exists.
But yes, big brain move to not vote or vote some third party.
Nah bigger brain is telling ppl neo liberalism is better then conseravitsm. “If im poor at least I’m not them”. Why you think most of the world is conservative?
I voted, and my vote definitely did not matter. Nor will it until we completely overhaul the election system, getting rid of the electoral college and first past the post. I don’t think that’s going to happen either until politicians acquire enough fear to offset their greed.
The most complicit are the genocidal wackos who nominated a cop/prosecutor that campaigned to the cheyneys.
Nobody should be shamed into voting for trash.
If you live in a blue state and didn’t vote, how are you complicit?
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Also! They literally let someone hand out 250 million dollars, openly, and our “courts” gave it the go-ahead - even if it goes against some of the longest standing legal precedent regarding buying votes (done with booze back in the day).
This election wasn’t a thumb on the scale, it was the oligarchs mushroom-stamping humanity.
Also, these oligarchs don’t realize that they’re going to be robbed just like the rest of us when the time comes. If they don’t do exactly what trump and putin want, they’ll either fall out of window or have to spend the rest of their lives hiding. These will be remembered as the good ol’ days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_since_2022
I need to mention that the reason why 20 million fewer voters voted is. Because of the massive voter suppression that was done prior to the 2024 election. So many people were purged from voters rolls and many polling places were closed it wasn’t funny.
While I’m sure that was part of it, a lot of people didn’t vote for other reasons as well. Someone I know who you would probably consider “left” didn’t vote at all because of Harris supporting Israel (I’m aware trump is worse for Palestinians), and I know a bunch of other people I’ve spoken to online also didn’t vote at all for the same reason.
Plus I suspect a lot of other previous Biden voters didn’t vote at all for similar reasons, like possibly all party’s are owned by the rich.
Bottom line, a class war is needed to get the rich in check.
Unfortunately, if they didn’t vote, they have no right to complain when shit blows up in their face. I don’t feel represented by basically any candidate in my home country, Canada, or where I live, the UK. I still participate and vote for the person closest to what I’d like to see. If you don’t participate, you don’t get to bitch.
Your vote only matters in swing states. The whole electoral college thing is fucked.
Yeah, it’s pretty dumb. The popular vote is what should matter. That’s the only way each vote counts as much as any other vote, which is like a basic principle of democracy.
didn’t Trump still win the popular vote though
Yes, but many people simply don’t vote because they know their chosen party will win easily. By the numbers there are more Democrats than Republicans.
fair enough
He got more votes than Harris, but less than 50%.
Internalizing the “your vote only matters in purple states” will turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy.
Previously blue states have turned purple, previously purple states have turned red. Nothing is set in stone, although resting on your laurels (if your state is blue) or giving up (if your state is red) will all but guarantee that the changes will only happen in one direction: the bad one.
In 2020, Texas would have gone blue were it not for Ken Paxton purging mail-in votes, by Paxton’s own admission.
Nothing is set in stone, so you need fight for every inch.
Internalizing the “your vote only matters in purple states” will turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy.
They’re not prophesizing about some future, but making an obvious factual statement about present reality.
Nothing is set in stone, so you need fight for every inch.
You should check out the current administration. They’re not leaving any time soon.
So 68.1% of the American public are complicit. Worse than I thought TBH. Fuck.
Yeah, pretending that it wasn’t a landslide is a grand delusion.
“Yeah, pretending that it was
n’ta landslide is a grand delusion.”FTFY
In the US it’s legal for corporations to create propaganda outlets which stream nonstop lies designed to get sensitive individuals to vote fascists. It’s impossible to have democratic elections and have completely disinformed and propagandized voters. Yet even after killing hundreds of thousands of conservative voters the courts have sided with the propaganda outlets.
Yeah, no, that’s not how that works. We’ve got the electoral college, remember? There were 20 states that went blue. Any additional votes to Harris in those states wouldn’t have made Trump win less, refraining to vote in those states ultimately didn’t matter. You need to look at the percentage of people that didn’t vote in states that went red. But I get it, its easier to blame everyone who didn’t vote than to use critical thought.
Complicit with genocide? That’s everybody who voted actually.
Yeah, these numbers are generally brought up to “show” how weak Trump support is. But, what I see is that leftists are not a majority, even among people that give a damn. So, if leftists are going to make any progress, they need to take concrete actions with whoever they can agree with for that project, instead of attacking other leftists (because they didn’t vote e.g.) and going no-contact with everyone that’s not as ideologically pure as yourself.
We have to build consensus and lead by example before we can win at the polls.
The mistake here is assuming that the dems are left.
Democrats arent leftists. Left of the the republicans isn’t the same as being a leftist, and voting for democrats doesn’t make you a leftist.
How gross it is, considering what was in the line that so many didn’t vote. Also I bet the duck he cheated.
He 100% cheated.
“69.16% of Americans are okay with fascism” isn’t really a resounding defense of the health of American democracy in the face of fascism, though.
More people didn’t vote at all than let this demented rapist burn everything down.
Fucking idiots.
This is democracy manifest!
Hands off my penush!
Empty votes plus Trump votes still mean the majority of US was for, or at least indifferent about getting a fascist as a president.
The attack on public education paid its dividends. A huge part of that 36% likely didn’t even know where, when, or how to vote. Never underestimate the stupidity of fellow humans, it’s a capacity we have in abundance.
No.
Maybe the democrats should stop running ruling class candidates while expecting the working class to “fall in line?”
How come you never blame the people doing the same thing but expecting different results? If history is anything to go by, choosing a female to run for president guarantees a trump victory.
It’s a hard truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.
Maybe the democrats should stop running ruling class candidates while expecting the working class to “fall in line?”
Would you remind me who won the Dem primary in 2016, and who won in 2020?
How come you never blame the people doing the same thing but expecting different results?
God, the irony is painful.
If history is anything to go by, choosing a female to run for president guarantees a trump victory.
It’s a hard truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.
The fuck
Would you remind me who won the Dem primary in 2016, and who won in 2020?
You already know the answers. Joe won because although he doesn’t support the working class, he didn’t have being a woman working against him. He also had the benefit of people voting trump out of office.
God, the irony is painful.
How so? I don’t expect anything different. I expect this song and dance to go on until I die and probably quite awhile after.
The fuck
“Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.” I rest my case.
You already know the answers. Joe won because although he doesn’t support the working class, he didn’t have being a woman working against him. He also had the benefit of people voting trump out of office.
… do you know what the fuck a primary is
How so? I don’t expect anything different. I expect this song and dance to go on until I die and probably quite awhile after.
[American voters choose candidates more conservative than most Lemmy users, myself included]
“Why are you blaming the voters for their choices???”
[repeat every two years since 1992]
“Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.” I rest my case.
Bruh, you’re out here pretending that the American working class is Secretly Left™. If there’s anyone who needs a reality check here…
… do you know what the fuck a primary is
I’m referring to the general.
Sorry, the rest of your comment is incoherent nonsense. I can tell you’re just throwing ideas out there because you don’t want to admit you may be wrong about something, despite how many people agree with you.
I have to block you now, because you people will never stop until I do. Goodbye.
I’m referring to the general.
Me:
Would you remind me who won the Dem primary in 2016, and who won in 2020?
You:
You already know the answers. Joe won because although he doesn’t support the working class, he didn’t have being a woman working against him.
Kind of sounds like you don’t know what the fuck a primary is. Or who ran in 2016.
There are reasons other than abstaining from voting that prevent people from doing so (being homeless, not having ID, etc.). However, fuck voting in a US election - democracy is an illusion.
I voted for Harris. But let’s be honest. There were two choices on the ballot in 2016, 2020, and 2024:
- Fascism
- Slightly delayed fascism.
I’m glad you voted, but i don’t agree those were the two options.
I think it was a functioning government implementing more progressive policies vs. absolute shit-spewing catastrophic chaos.
And as that has already been borne out in the first, what, thirty seconds? Those people who refused to prevent it can get fucked.
Those really were the options though.
When Biden won in 2020, I distinctly remember saying, “Trump is going to win in 2024.” I saw it clearly. It wasn’t hard to predict.
Trump didn’t come from nowhere. Learn history. What we are experiencing now is not unique. Whenever wealth inequality gets too great, people demand action. And if those in power aren’t willing to move the needle and improve the lot of the working class, then they will turn to demagogues. This happens again and again in sclerotic democracies. It happened in Rome. It happened in ancient Greece. It happened in Revolutionary France. People turn to demagogues who promise to ram change through if they are not taken care of. Yes, it’s fucking obvious that Trump isn’t going to actually help the people. That’s the definition of a demagogue. Yet demagogues crop up again and again whenever democracies face the challenges we are facing now.
Democrats have proven themselves, time and time again, to not be willing to actually move the needle. Imagine if Biden had showed even half of Trump’s willpower, except for good rather than evil. Think of where we would be now.
This is why the choice was “fascism” or “slightly delayed fascism.” Kamala wasn’t going to meaningfully move the needle either. If she had won in 2024, Trump or another fascist demagogue would have won in 2028.
Merely holding the line is not a viable strategy. If you are running against fascism, and you refuse to do anything to meaningfully fight it when you win, you are responsible for getting that fascist elected.
Trump is responsible for his own sins. But Democrats are the reason he is currently in the White House. He’s doing the evil, but they are the ones who put him there.
Yeah that’s not how I see it. If we cheated like the republiQans, packed the courts with 15-year old fanatics for us, redrew all the maps against court orders, plowed billions into vote suppression and propaganda, we could end up with enough Democrats in Congress to get big things done.
We’d have done it fraudulently, as the republiQans have, but we’d all be better off.
Instead, we try to win honestly with well reasoned arguments and we lose by 1-3% every fucking time and have to govern with incompetent Qanuts who bought their seat with daddy’s chicken plant money.
Then a new crop of supergeniuses who just got out of polisci 201 light up a phattie and decide this is all part of the plan, man and we’re not gonna participate in this crooked show!
By the time they’re old enough and experienced enough to laugh at that, it’s been 20 years more of unrelenting Christian Nationalism and Gross Corrupt Incompetence.
I’m all for the Democrats Fixing It All (again) but saying they’re fascism-lite is stupid. We failed to elect them because we sat at home, and now it’s all on fire. As we’d spent the last year explaining it would.
If we cheated like the republiQans, packed the courts with 15-year old fanatics for us, redrew all the maps against court orders, plowed billions into vote suppression and propaganda, we could end up with enough Democrats in Congress to get big things done.
And they still wouldn’t, because they don’t want to. Not with the neoliberals in charge of the party.
The one thing – the one thing – that would’ve saved American democracy would’ve been the Democratic Party giving the middle finger to their crony-capitalist major donors and deciding to follow Sanders/Warren/AOC/etc. and meaningfully help the working class instead. But that was precisely the one thing that they abjectly refused to do.
Somehow Democrats are always on the back foot even with the majority. It’s truly a wonder why people don’t believe them when they say they can do nothing to stop Republicans when they have been stopping the Democrats from passing things with a minority for a long time.
And they still wouldn’t, because they don’t want to. Not with the neoliberals in charge of the party.
So - serious question - would you want to? Cheat.
Don’t insult people. Do not assume people are young or inexperienced. I’ve been voting for Democrats since 2008. And they’ve failed again and again. I fully understand why people would just throw their hands up and refuse to vote for the traitors. Don’t belittle people who are simply sick of the bullshit and decide “a pox on both your houses!” It’s not youthful inexperience, it’s disillusionment and exhaustion. People are fucking done with corporate dems. And honestly, the best long term strategy might be just to let the entire Democratic Party be burned to ashes.
We’re not the first country in modern times to fall to right wing autocrats. And one common thing? It’s not the captured opposition nominally liberal party that actually drives the autocrats out in the end. Usually the equivalent of the Democratic Party needs to be completely eliminated before the autocrats can be defeated. They suck up all the oxygen and prevent a real opposition party from forming. Typically, a popular front needs to be formed that completely sidelines and crushes the traditional liberal party and the autocrat.
Realistically, we are probably going to have to let the Democratic Party go the way of the Whigs. There’s really no other realistic way we end up defeating MAGAism. A feckless and useless opposition party is often far worse than no opposition party at all.
I think you’re right, and it really pisses me off to think about because the republicans were almost guaranteed to win no matter which candidate they put forward. Yet they picked Trump the traitor.
For the best really, if they had chosen a more competent candidate they could be doing a lot more damage with far less bad press and diplomatic fallout
Damn, I have tried at least a dozen times to write comments expressing that idea, and I still haven’t managed to phrase it that well. I think I’m just gonna start quoting you instead.
You can’t just blame a group of people for anything though, it’s not like geographic boundaries determine morality.
Instead you gotta look at what happened this last election. Yeah there was inflation, and the polls point to that as a thing that swayed a lot of people. But the bigger factor was media capture by far-right oligarchs. The top cable news station, the top podcast, and the top social media network for news were all turned into maga propaganda this election. In that environment, the only question is why was it so close?
And unfortunately, until that changes the next elections are going to be the same. Trump’s approval is down, but it’s still higher than it was at this point his last term.
You can’t just blame a group of people for anything though, it’s not like geographic boundaries determine morality.
Culture, in large part, determines morality, and culture is heavily influenced by geopolitical boundaries.
As an American myself, I have no interest in #notallAmericans defenses. We made our fucking bed, we can lie in it.
Instead you gotta look at what happened this last election. Yeah there was inflation, and the polls point to that as a thing that swayed a lot of people. But the bigger factor was media capture by far-right oligarchs. The top cable news station, the top podcast, and the top social media network for news were all turned into maga propaganda this election. In that environment, the only question is why was it so close?
The same reason why it was close in 2020, and in 2016. The same reason why the Tea Party in 2010 took off, why Americans gave Bush Jr. a second term in '04, why the GOP in the 90s saw significant success in running towards fascism. The same reason why Reagan got two terms with overwhelming popularity, why Nixon was elected on a platform of disdain for minorities, why Goldwater was a hit in the GOP and took the South from the Dems in 1964 for the first time since the Civil War.
We are a broken nation which has never managed to fully reckon with the deeply rooted authoritarian character within our culture. Trump is just the first time when a major party has given full voice to that inner fascist cretin, and it found that the base liked nothing better.
No excuses, no crisis staring us in the face, no illusions of a Truly Democratic Leader waved about. A creature whose prior term displayed the full range of incompetence and malice towards everything from leftists to Christianity, and whose campaign rhetoric promised nothing more than to get worse in its conduct if elected again. Trump was the final presentation of the question, unambiguous, “Do you, Americans, want fascism?” A mirror looking us flat in the fucking face, and daring us to speak.
And our response was an overwhelming “Sure, why not.”
I think 100%. Both these parties don’t work for middle class. Exceptions are Bernie and AOC. Without a third party pressure, we cannot win this oligarch war.
~70% of the US adults either wanted trump or at least OK with him, and by extension are ok with the muskrat
Maybe it’s time for the rest of the world to realize it’s not “just trump” but the USA as a whole is very racist, stupid and backwards country.
Maybe the pushback against trump we see all around social media is just the small loud minority.
Maybe it’s time to not consider Americans friends, and to stop supporting it as much as possible. I’ve started cutting off the american-made stuff I buy.
Maybe the pushback against trump we see all around social media is just the small loud minority.
I think so too. They are not big, just loud.
Maybe it’s time for the rest of the world to realize it’s not “just trump” but the USA as a whole is very racist, stupid and backwards country.
We knew.
~70% of the US adults either wanted trump or at least OK with him, and by extension are ok with the muskrat
Well, no. It sure looks like that from the corporate news spew, but no.
… So fucking what?
“Ooh, he hasn’t got a mandate.” Yeah, know what he has got?
CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT. And no intention of ever giving it up.
(Yes, I know, don’t abandon hope, organise, and all that. But crap like this just reads like “it’ll obviously work out fine just wait it out” shit. Which famously Does Not Fucking Work)
Idk, I can respect where you’re coming from, but this meme feels more to me like a counter to people who are saying “Trump won, this is what America voted for, if you fight against his agenda you’re fighting against the will of the people” etc. type crap
Totally agreed that just hoping things will work out fine isn’t any kind of plan, but a reminder that the average human being doesn’t like what’s happening right now can help people feel a little less crazy when they’re staying informed about current events
But aren’t we though, in a way? A bunch of people looked at everything Trump and Project 2025 promised, and said, ‘meh, seems fine, I see no reason to vote against this.’ That means they either agreed with what those things were saying, or at least don’t mind them.
In other words, tacit support.
I think that undersells how uninformed most folks are, and how weak critical thinking skills are, on average. Too many people were credulous when trump said he didn’t know anything about project 2025, and many people currently getting deported believed they’d only deport “hardened criminals”. So I don’t think it’s even being fine with these terrible policies, I think a lot of people were simply ignorant.
The ignorance is by design of course, so I’m not trying to pin the blame solely on individuals: the disinformation landscape is a huge boost for right wing extremism, and of course the Democrats themselves just constantly shit the bed. The Dems aren’t Left enough to galvanize support from people who want real change in the system (so they say “fuck it” and either sit out, or become accelerationists), and even the policies they do tout that would help at the margins don’t get any attention - in part because they’re consistently bad at messaging, but also because nuanced, calm reasoning isn’t as attention grabbing as hate and fear.
That’s fair, good point
What meme? This has been posted exactly one time, right here. That doesn’t make a meme.
I don’t read it that way
pfff… he won twice. if americans would want a real democracy that wouldnt have happened.
Yeah. American here. It’s generally the case that the president gets votes from a minority of the population. Nothing new there. Unfortunately those of us who live here can see that the support for this monster is very real.
It turns out politics is very complex and difficult to manage.
Not voting is not the same as not voting for Trump. Not voting is complying with other people’s votes. If you don’t live in a swing state then that’s understandable but if you live in a swing state and didn’t vote, you have allowed Trump to win this election.
I wonder what the percentage of not voters in swing states is. Surely it would be way lower since they have more incentive to vote right?
The top 10 states by voter participation are: Minnesota Colorado Oregon Washington Wisconsin Maine New Hampshire Michigan Iowa New Jersey
Those above as well as Virginia, Montana, Massachusetts, Vermont, North Carolina, Florida, and Connecticut have participation rates above ~70%. While a few swing states are in there, it’s certainly not overwhelming given that I’ve listed about 40% of the states.
Hitler got about 33% back when he started. He achieved his position by simply ignoring the law after that. Sounds familiar?
So they reformed the state after ww2, right?
No such change here. People literally swear their lives to “defending” the olde slavermaster pact.
Both times Trump won was when a woman was running against him. The only time he lost was to a white old man.
USA is just sexist and Americans better come to terms with it rather than making up random reasons.
Basically if Tim Walz was the presidential candidate he probably would have won.
This! Kamala is a black woman. She was never going to win. When asked if they would rather win or be right, they chose being right. They live on denial on how sexist and racist their country is.
Dems aren’t going to nominate anybody without a long record of violence.
It’s so fucking infuriating that practically every election, if it were possible, “did not vote” would win the presidency.
We’re always looking at some stupidly close, razor margins bullshit, when there’s a MASSIVE group of people that unfortunately just couldn’t possibly give a shit less…
I vote that if “did not vote” wins, that means “nobody” wins, and therefore “nobody” is president for 4y, try again next time.
I also vote that we as a country take a que from Talkeetna, AK. We should elect a cat president, if one can be mayor why not? And a cat will do better than any human I’ve met, so…
They would have to be 35 and a natural born citizen. Maybe a turtle or a parrot would work?
Fair, turtle it is, parrot too “can talk” to be president.
That’s the point. It’s important these people think that each election is between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.
It’s why Bernie wasn’t allowed to win any primaries.
Last elections were between stale bread with wilted lettuce and a turd sandwich covered in diarrhea with lead flakes and pube sprinkles.
And millions of Americans still think they’re the same. I guess sabotaging education for 50 years really works.
Fucking wrong. Every asshole who abstained from voting, voted for Trump. He received 60%. At the very least, that 30% didnt vote for someone else.
If you people want me to vote for your candidate, make sure they aren’t just the “lesser evil.”
Try doing something different next time if you want different results. Don’t repeat the same mistakes.
Blame everyone who voted for hillary clinton in the 2016 primary for why we now have 2 trump presidencies. They’re out of touch.
I get the frustration but this is a bad take.
In a two-party, first-past-the-post system you kinda have an ethical obligation to vote for the lesser evil. It’s just a statistical fact you can’t ignore.
It fucking blows, but if your choices are the shitty status quo or full blown fascism, you really should pick the status quo.
Obviously doesn’t fix the problem with the Democrat party sliding further and further right since they can continue to claim “lesser evil”… and it also doesn’t fix the DNC superdelegate shenanigans that got us Hillary instead of Bernie… but I’d rather the country be able to still exist to fight another day.
In a two-party, first-past-the-post system you kinda have an ethical obligation to vote for the lesser evil. It’s just a statistical fact you can’t ignore.
Not really, but you’re free to believe that.
The ethical stance to take against 2 evil candidates is to support neither. Supporting the lesser evil makes useful idiots think that they’re winning and therefore stop fighting back.
Any ire you direct towards the people who don’t support evil candidates would be better spent directed towards those who do support evil candidates. i.e. don’t waste your breath arguing with non-voters, dedicate that energy towards the people who keep supporting candidates that don’t represent their interests.
It’s just a statistical fact you can’t ignore.
Actually, the people who refuse to support evil candidates are a statistical fact you can’t ignore.
Since we’re talking facts, let me lay another one on you. All you people do when you get mad at me for not voting is reinforce my decision to keep doing it. I’m not going to cave to look good in front of ya’ll, I genuinely don’t care what most of you think.
Either run a candidate that supports the working class, or I’m not voting for them.
The ethical stance to take against 2 evil candidates is to support neither.
This may be the ethical thing to do. However, ethical is not always the best.
By not voting the lesser evil, you allowed the more evil to win the elections.
The percentage of non-voting people has no direct impact to the end result. In a perfect democratic world, that non-voting majority would sign the elected government to be more careful with their decisions, as people are loosing trust. In the current state of “democracy”, a fascist just took over and started dismantling the country.
I’ve mentioned before how the problem with the lesser evil is that useful idiots stop fighting.
Since neither side really cares about solving the problems that face us as a species, it’s a loss no matter what.
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Yes, it’s a loss no matter what. But when you get to decide whether to eat a shit sandwich or a paper sandwich, you either choose to eat the paper sandwich or you’re forced to eat the shit sandwich. Guess you opted for the shit sandwich… enjoy!
Hey, I’m glad you guys are upset.
If harris would’ve won, you wouldn’t be mad.
Government is not a sandwich you simpleton
Naaaah. I’m going to go ahead and blame the people who arrogantly chose to feed their entitlement and not vote.
Cool. Let me know when that starts winning you elections.
Cool, and I’ll ask that you not only let me know when doing absolutely nothing starts winning elections, but also that you let me know when time when it ever has.
Better yet- how about you tell me of an instance in history when not doing shit has ever won anything at all.
Your refusal to vote helped put us right where Trump wanted. Own that shit.
How many times does the “fall in line crowd” not have to fall in line before you people start doing something differently?
Your refusal to vote helped put us right where Trump wanted. Own that shit.
Lol. How about the people that voted for hillary clinton in the 2016 primary own trump getting the presidency at all?
How about you hold them accountable? Or let me guess, you’re diverting all that energy towards me instead.
Thanks for proving my point, again.
Clinton was a much better candidate than trump. Like, miles ahead. They tried to pin benghazi on her for months and it was proven time and again she wasn’t responsible for it. The other argument was “but her emails”. She was experienced. She was intelligent. She didn’t sexually assault anyone. She didn’t go bankrupt every few years. She even won the popular vote. But she was a she, so that’s apparently a deal breaker in swing states.
These kids don’t want to hear that because it flies in the face their designer manufactured outrage, but it’s a good point nonetheless.
🥱
Like I said, this song and dance is going to go on until I die and probably long after.
I’m delivering blame to where it lies. You can tell yourself all you need to believe you had no part in creating the dumpster fire we’re currently burning in, but do me a favor and just stick with telling that to yourself, okay? Because anyone with a brain that has even slightly been paying attention is tired of watching you people ignorantly pointing your fingers at everyone but your smug and entitled selves.
You have to vote according to how the electoral system actually works, not how you wish it worked. Unless you - yes, you - are personally prepared to fund and organise a revolution to change that system then you vote against the actual fascist.
I can tell you’re going to go through whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to convince yourself that voting for the lesser evil is somehow a win.
Sorry you’ve been conditioned to dedicate so much energy working against your own interests. If more of you diverted that energy to the people supporting our oppressors, we wouldn’t need to be having this discussion.
I can tell you’re going to go through whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to convince yourself that voting for the lesser evil is somehow a win.
My friend, the only one performing mental gymnastics right now is you trying to convince yourself that what you have achieved by refusing to vote against a fascist is a win.
Sorry you’ve been conditioned to dedicate so much energy working against your own interests. If more of you diverted that energy to the people supporting our oppressors, we wouldn’t need to be having this discussion.
Assuming you’re an American, by refusing to vote against fascism I’m pretty sure you won’t be having any free discussions in a year or so lest you be carted off by the local stasi.
achieved by refusing to vote against a fascist is a win.
How? Either way I lose.
If I voted for harris and harris won, I still lost. If I voted for harris and trump won, I still lost. if I voted for trump and trump won, I still lost.
You’re naive enough to believe that harris winning is the same as you winning, and that’s just proving my point. You’ve been conditioned to think that a slow loss is the same as a win.
Assuming you’re an American, by refusing to vote against fascism I’m pretty sure you won’t be having any free discussions in a year or so lest you be carted off by the local stasi.
Yeah, you’re too far gone to be taken seriously. Your reply is just an automated response you feel compelled to make to fit in with other people who are also too far gone.
Gonna block you now. Good luck in life.
How? Either way I lose.
Because when you vote against a fascist you’re considering wider society, not just your self.
If I voted for harris and harris won, I still lost. If I voted for harris and trump won, I still lost. if I voted for trump and trump won, I still lost.
The correct statement is 'if Harris gets in, I lost. If Trump gets in everyone loses. Its about more than just you.
You’re naive enough to believe that harris winning is the same as you winning, and that’s just proving my point. You’ve been conditioned to think that a slow loss is the same as a win
I’m not American. What I am though is able to see that fascism is worse than conservatism. The fact that conservatism is still bad is irrelevant when the only other choice is an actual fascist because the fascist will probably remove your power to vote in the future.
Gonna block you now. Good luck in life.
Yeah, some truths are too uncomfortable to be lived with aren’t they?
I find it very interesting how conceptualizing binary states vs continuous ranges play into justifying not voting for the lesser evil.
By definition, a request to acknowledge the lesser evil means that the audience is able to understand “evil” on a continuous range.
Yet all of the justifications I see against voting for the lesser evil center on viewing the world through an absolute, binary lens. “I lose either way.” “Genocide is genocide, nevermind that there’s more of it, protestors are being silenced, the ones doing the genocide call Trump’s administration a ‘dream team’, we now have a genocide against trans citizens as well”, etc.
Do you think you’d lose less had Kamala won? Why or why not?
My life is going to go on much the same no matter who is in office.
The rest of you, though, should be asking yourselves why the greater evil won and consider running a good candidate in the future.
The fact you’re trying to justify “losing less” proves my point further about your conditioning. Try to direct some of that energy towards the people who have conditioned you. Maybe then the greater evil won’t win next time because you people did something different.
Vote against genocide. It’s that simple. There are no excuses, when genocide is on the table, you do something.
Yeah… now people have to argue if whoever you’re talking about really supports genocide, and to what extent.
Yeah fuck off. At least Kamala wouldn’t have been trying to cripple and invade my country
You would be happy with her continuing to invade and cripple other countries tho?
Like I said, I don’t expect you people to do anything different.
This song and dance is going to go on until the day I die and likely long after.
Who is “you people”. I’m not American.
I also wasn’t a huge fan of Kamala but at least she wasn’t threatening the sovereignty of numerous nations. She had terrible views on Gaza but she also wasn’t talking about bulldozing Gaza to set up her own luxury resort on top of the corpses.
But no thank you for being so moral as to not vote for her. I’ll think of you when Trump sends his military into Canada and my city
Oh man this imperial crybaby is canadian? lol.
You people are the ones fighting the non-voters instead of those nominating candidates the people don’t want to vote for.
Instead of getting mad at me, you people should be getting mad at those who keep nominating candidates I refuse to vote for.
You’re wasting your breath trying to convince me to change. I’ve said before all you guys do when you get angry at me for non-voting is reinforce my decision to do so. This means that all of you arguing against me are actually arguing in favor of more fascism, because that’s what we keep getting.
A protest (non) vote is useless if you’re not going to get to vote again. If you want to fight for something, maybe fight to get rid of FPTP and your two party system that has lead to this scenario.
Instead of getting mad at me, you people should be getting mad at those who keep nominating candidates I refuse to vote for.
I am mad at them. I don’t even like the Democratic Party, they’re barely any better than the Canadian Conservative Party (at least before PP who has pushed the party much further in Trump’s direction).
But again, at least they weren’t planning an invasion of my country, or Panama, or Greenland/Denmark. Or putting people (including Canadians!) in camps. Or selling out Ukraine to buddy up with Russia. Or tearing down any “check and balance” your government had, in record time
I may not be able to convince you but you’re definitely affirming my view
If it’s this easy to “invade” canada, then why would you have faith in the state at all?
