Both times Trump won was when a woman was running against him. The only time he lost was to a white old man.
USA is just sexist and Americans better come to terms with it rather than making up random reasons.
Also! They literally let someone hand out 250 million dollars, openly, and our “courts” gave it the go-ahead - even if it goes against some of the longest standing legal precedent regarding buying votes (done with booze back in the day).
This election wasn’t a thumb on the scale, it was the oligarchs mushroom-stamping humanity.
Also, these oligarchs don’t realize that they’re going to be robbed just like the rest of us when the time comes. If they don’t do exactly what trump and putin want, they’ll either fall out of window or have to spend the rest of their lives hiding. These will be remembered as the good ol’ days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_since_2022
Those who didn’t vote, who thought their vote didn’t matter, that no matter which politician gets elected to whatever office… they’re complicit.
The only significantly statically impactful group of “non voters” is the population that was unable to or inconvenienced heavily by voting.
Meaning the major majority of voters that didn’t vote were either unable to because of other obligations (work, childcare, etc) with a small subset of that being people that were no motivated enough to deal with the inconvenience of visiting a poll line (4hours in line) after a 10 hour shift.
These are the vast vast majority of people that did not show up. Beyond that an even smaller percentage was the "protest voters’ that even if 100% of which went to Harris she still would have lost.
I guess I just want to say “in conclusion” that the vast majority of voters that didn’t vote were giving you your Starbucks or your Taco Bell.
I think we should spend less time blaming voters and more time being critical of the politicians and party that gives zero reason for the working class to “risk” their shift for.
No one’s gonna “risk a shift” for the policies and messaging that Harris communicated. You don’t get people to “risk their shift” for voting for a lesser evil.
You lot never blame the dem leadership for making their biggest funder AIPAC/Israel, and allowing AIPAC funding to completely steer the party platform, the candidate choice, and the course of the race. Somehow Dem leaders are simply immune from blame in your eyes, even when AIPAC steers this outcome straight to a loss and Israelis said they never wanted the dems to win anyway.
The dems losing was much more desirable to AIPAC than a non genocide dem entering the race. The polls told dem leadership they were going to lose for the entire race and they decided to take the loss rather than give in to the no-to-genocide voters. AIPAC/Israel was more important to dem leadership than winning the race. Why do you still imagine that AIPAC supports dem voters or cares about America? You’ve learned nothing and you’re on the way to lose some more. Did you hear Dem leaders talk about the needs of the voters very much? No. You didnt-- but you sure saw them get animated and passionate about supporting zionist war crimes.For my vote, I wasnt going to lift a finger for any war criminal of any party, even if it meant this country burned itself to the ground. If the choice is murder lots of innocents or burn this place to the ground, I chose not to participate and let this place burn itself to the ground, and I’ll do it again if needed-- so will lots of other people – and theres nothing you can do about it. Dems cant win an election without them either.
So “blame” me on the internet all day, your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer. I hope every dem leader gets to experience unemployment, and if it leads to revolution or “regime change” as we like to casually say it when its other countries suffering, then so be it. Its past time for this farce to “fundamentally change”.
Or suppressed. I’ll give some anecdotal examples. I have a friend that lives in a major metropolitan area with over 2.6 million people. When he applied to get a photo ID (he lost his previous one and needed a new one), the soonest appointment available for the entire metropolitan area was 3 months out. That’s just for the appointment to apply for the ID, not actually receiving the ID. You are required to have a photo ID to vote. Then, voter registration in itself must also be completed at least a month before an election. Now, let’s talk about the process of actually voting. I’ve personally stood in line for over 6 hours to vote. A lot of the people waiting in line had to leave to pick up their kids and other things. If you don’t pick up your kids from school or daycare at very specific times, there are serious penalties. While I was waiting, there must have been at least 40 people in front of me that had to leave before voting. Many of them had waited in line for over 4 hours. For most people, waiting in line is the only way to vote. Only the elderly and disabled qualify to vote by mail. Make no mistake, voter suppression is very effective, and it is implemented specifically in areas that vote against what the ruling party wants. In Trump leaning areas, the lines were no longer than a two minute wait if they existed at all. Trump never would have won either election if it wasn’t for voter suppression.
This is misleading.
According to those stats, the majority of people voted for someone other than Harris as well.
The real takeaway here is large percentage of people that don’t vote.
“69.16% of Americans are okay with fascism” isn’t really a resounding defense of the health of American democracy in the face of fascism, though.
More people didn’t vote at all than let this demented rapist burn everything down.
Fucking idiots.
This is democracy manifest!
Hands off my penush!
Empty votes plus Trump votes still mean the majority of US was for, or at least indifferent about getting a fascist as a president.
The attack on public education paid its dividends. A huge part of that 36% likely didn’t even know where, when, or how to vote. Never underestimate the stupidity of fellow humans, it’s a capacity we have in abundance.
I mean this is wrong for many reasons, not the least of which is all the road blocks put in place to dissuade people to vote. Look into how some places didn’t put prepaid postage on mail-in votes, meaning people had to pay for the luxury to vote. Look at how the election is held the evening of a work day, and many people are unable to leave their jobs to go vote without risking their livelihood. Look at how people are randomly unregistered to vote without their knowledge (this happens to me every year, despite actively voting even in local elections and living in the same place.) Look at how they offered a boatload of money to people who voted Republican, despite how that has always been illegal.
You may say that these people are still at fault, and to some degree I agree with you, but if you haven’t been so poor that you couldn’t eat, couldn’t keep your utilities on, couldn’t drive anywhere extra because you have no money for gas or public transit, then you have no idea where a large portion of the would-be eligible voters are coming from.
On top of this, the Democrats didn’t focus at all on how they were going to make poor people’s lives better. While the Republicans straight up lied, they heavily covered how Trump would supposedly lift the working class out of poverty.
I live quite comfortably now, but I haven’t always, and a huge part of what my fellow Democrats miss is just how desperate it makes you not having your daily needs met. Poor folks fall for the lies because the only thing they have a privilege of caring about is getting food on the table.
Sure, there are the bigots and the racists, and if someone voted R because of that, they are 100% the problem. But I’m pretty sure the majority of people who voted R or didn’t vote were just busy trying to survive and hopeful that the lies Trump told would change their lives forever.
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No.
Maybe the democrats should stop running ruling class candidates while expecting the working class to “fall in line?”
How come you never blame the people doing the same thing but expecting different results? If history is anything to go by, choosing a female to run for president guarantees a trump victory.
It’s a hard truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.
Maybe the democrats should stop running ruling class candidates while expecting the working class to “fall in line?”
Would you remind me who won the Dem primary in 2016, and who won in 2020?
How come you never blame the people doing the same thing but expecting different results?
God, the irony is painful.
If history is anything to go by, choosing a female to run for president guarantees a trump victory.
It’s a hard truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.
The fuck
Would you remind me who won the Dem primary in 2016, and who won in 2020?
You already know the answers. Joe won because although he doesn’t support the working class, he didn’t have being a woman working against him. He also had the benefit of people voting trump out of office.
God, the irony is painful.
How so? I don’t expect anything different. I expect this song and dance to go on until I die and probably quite awhile after.
The fuck
“Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.” I rest my case.
You already know the answers. Joe won because although he doesn’t support the working class, he didn’t have being a woman working against him. He also had the benefit of people voting trump out of office.
… do you know what the fuck a primary is
How so? I don’t expect anything different. I expect this song and dance to go on until I die and probably quite awhile after.
[American voters choose candidates more conservative than most Lemmy users, myself included]
“Why are you blaming the voters for their choices???”
[repeat every two years since 1992]
“Unfortunately you people have been conditioned to cover your ears to hard truths and just pretend reality is a different way.” I rest my case.
Bruh, you’re out here pretending that the American working class is Secretly Left™. If there’s anyone who needs a reality check here…
… do you know what the fuck a primary is
I’m referring to the general.
Sorry, the rest of your comment is incoherent nonsense. I can tell you’re just throwing ideas out there because you don’t want to admit you may be wrong about something, despite how many people agree with you.
I have to block you now, because you people will never stop until I do. Goodbye.
I’m referring to the general.
Me:
Would you remind me who won the Dem primary in 2016, and who won in 2020?
You:
You already know the answers. Joe won because although he doesn’t support the working class, he didn’t have being a woman working against him.
Kind of sounds like you don’t know what the fuck a primary is. Or who ran in 2016.
There are reasons other than abstaining from voting that prevent people from doing so (being homeless, not having ID, etc.). However, fuck voting in a US election - democracy is an illusion.
I voted for Harris. But let’s be honest. There were two choices on the ballot in 2016, 2020, and 2024:
- Fascism
- Slightly delayed fascism.
I’m glad you voted, but i don’t agree those were the two options.
I think it was a functioning government implementing more progressive policies vs. absolute shit-spewing catastrophic chaos.
And as that has already been borne out in the first, what, thirty seconds? Those people who refused to prevent it can get fucked.
Those really were the options though.
When Biden won in 2020, I distinctly remember saying, “Trump is going to win in 2024.” I saw it clearly. It wasn’t hard to predict.
Trump didn’t come from nowhere. Learn history. What we are experiencing now is not unique. Whenever wealth inequality gets too great, people demand action. And if those in power aren’t willing to move the needle and improve the lot of the working class, then they will turn to demagogues. This happens again and again in sclerotic democracies. It happened in Rome. It happened in ancient Greece. It happened in Revolutionary France. People turn to demagogues who promise to ram change through if they are not taken care of. Yes, it’s fucking obvious that Trump isn’t going to actually help the people. That’s the definition of a demagogue. Yet demagogues crop up again and again whenever democracies face the challenges we are facing now.
Democrats have proven themselves, time and time again, to not be willing to actually move the needle. Imagine if Biden had showed even half of Trump’s willpower, except for good rather than evil. Think of where we would be now.
This is why the choice was “fascism” or “slightly delayed fascism.” Kamala wasn’t going to meaningfully move the needle either. If she had won in 2024, Trump or another fascist demagogue would have won in 2028.
Merely holding the line is not a viable strategy. If you are running against fascism, and you refuse to do anything to meaningfully fight it when you win, you are responsible for getting that fascist elected.
Trump is responsible for his own sins. But Democrats are the reason he is currently in the White House. He’s doing the evil, but they are the ones who put him there.
I think you’re right, and it really pisses me off to think about because the republicans were almost guaranteed to win no matter which candidate they put forward. Yet they picked Trump the traitor.
For the best really, if they had chosen a more competent candidate they could be doing a lot more damage with far less bad press and diplomatic fallout
Damn, I have tried at least a dozen times to write comments expressing that idea, and I still haven’t managed to phrase it that well. I think I’m just gonna start quoting you instead.
Yeah that’s not how I see it. If we cheated like the republiQans, packed the courts with 15-year old fanatics for us, redrew all the maps against court orders, plowed billions into vote suppression and propaganda, we could end up with enough Democrats in Congress to get big things done.
We’d have done it fraudulently, as the republiQans have, but we’d all be better off.
Instead, we try to win honestly with well reasoned arguments and we lose by 1-3% every fucking time and have to govern with incompetent Qanuts who bought their seat with daddy’s chicken plant money.
Then a new crop of supergeniuses who just got out of polisci 201 light up a phattie and decide this is all part of the plan, man and we’re not gonna participate in this crooked show!
By the time they’re old enough and experienced enough to laugh at that, it’s been 20 years more of unrelenting Christian Nationalism and Gross Corrupt Incompetence.
I’m all for the Democrats Fixing It All (again) but saying they’re fascism-lite is stupid. We failed to elect them because we sat at home, and now it’s all on fire. As we’d spent the last year explaining it would.
If we cheated like the republiQans, packed the courts with 15-year old fanatics for us, redrew all the maps against court orders, plowed billions into vote suppression and propaganda, we could end up with enough Democrats in Congress to get big things done.
And they still wouldn’t, because they don’t want to. Not with the neoliberals in charge of the party.
The one thing – the one thing – that would’ve saved American democracy would’ve been the Democratic Party giving the middle finger to their crony-capitalist major donors and deciding to follow Sanders/Warren/AOC/etc. and meaningfully help the working class instead. But that was precisely the one thing that they abjectly refused to do.
Somehow Democrats are always on the back foot even with the majority. It’s truly a wonder why people don’t believe them when they say they can do nothing to stop Republicans when they have been stopping the Democrats from passing things with a minority for a long time.
And they still wouldn’t, because they don’t want to. Not with the neoliberals in charge of the party.
So - serious question - would you want to? Cheat.
Don’t insult people. Do not assume people are young or inexperienced. I’ve been voting for Democrats since 2008. And they’ve failed again and again. I fully understand why people would just throw their hands up and refuse to vote for the traitors. Don’t belittle people who are simply sick of the bullshit and decide “a pox on both your houses!” It’s not youthful inexperience, it’s disillusionment and exhaustion. People are fucking done with corporate dems. And honestly, the best long term strategy might be just to let the entire Democratic Party be burned to ashes.
We’re not the first country in modern times to fall to right wing autocrats. And one common thing? It’s not the captured opposition nominally liberal party that actually drives the autocrats out in the end. Usually the equivalent of the Democratic Party needs to be completely eliminated before the autocrats can be defeated. They suck up all the oxygen and prevent a real opposition party from forming. Typically, a popular front needs to be formed that completely sidelines and crushes the traditional liberal party and the autocrat.
Realistically, we are probably going to have to let the Democratic Party go the way of the Whigs. There’s really no other realistic way we end up defeating MAGAism. A feckless and useless opposition party is often far worse than no opposition party at all.
You can’t just blame a group of people for anything though, it’s not like geographic boundaries determine morality.
Instead you gotta look at what happened this last election. Yeah there was inflation, and the polls point to that as a thing that swayed a lot of people. But the bigger factor was media capture by far-right oligarchs. The top cable news station, the top podcast, and the top social media network for news were all turned into maga propaganda this election. In that environment, the only question is why was it so close?
And unfortunately, until that changes the next elections are going to be the same. Trump’s approval is down, but it’s still higher than it was at this point his last term.
You can’t just blame a group of people for anything though, it’s not like geographic boundaries determine morality.
Culture, in large part, determines morality, and culture is heavily influenced by geopolitical boundaries.
As an American myself, I have no interest in #notallAmericans defenses. We made our fucking bed, we can lie in it.
Instead you gotta look at what happened this last election. Yeah there was inflation, and the polls point to that as a thing that swayed a lot of people. But the bigger factor was media capture by far-right oligarchs. The top cable news station, the top podcast, and the top social media network for news were all turned into maga propaganda this election. In that environment, the only question is why was it so close?
The same reason why it was close in 2020, and in 2016. The same reason why the Tea Party in 2010 took off, why Americans gave Bush Jr. a second term in '04, why the GOP in the 90s saw significant success in running towards fascism. The same reason why Reagan got two terms with overwhelming popularity, why Nixon was elected on a platform of disdain for minorities, why Goldwater was a hit in the GOP and took the South from the Dems in 1964 for the first time since the Civil War.
We are a broken nation which has never managed to fully reckon with the deeply rooted authoritarian character within our culture. Trump is just the first time when a major party has given full voice to that inner fascist cretin, and it found that the base liked nothing better.
No excuses, no crisis staring us in the face, no illusions of a Truly Democratic Leader waved about. A creature whose prior term displayed the full range of incompetence and malice towards everything from leftists to Christianity, and whose campaign rhetoric promised nothing more than to get worse in its conduct if elected again. Trump was the final presentation of the question, unambiguous, “Do you, Americans, want fascism?” A mirror looking us flat in the fucking face, and daring us to speak.
And our response was an overwhelming “Sure, why not.”
Culture, in large part, determines morality, and culture is heavily influenced by geopolitical boundaries.
Even if you meant ethics instead of morality, this is getting real close to some outright blood-and-soil nationalism by placing such cultural importance on border policy.
Even if you meant ethics instead of morality, this is getting real close to some outright blood-and-soil nationalism by placing such cultural importance on border policy.
Jesus fucking Christ.
I think 100%. Both these parties don’t work for middle class. Exceptions are Bernie and AOC. Without a third party pressure, we cannot win this oligarch war.
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Pffffft, the rest of you lot knew what was at stake, the lazy twats who couldn’t be bothered to save their own nation by exercising their RIGHT to vote aren’t off the hook. I’ve literally started to cringe when hearing Americans in public (I live in the UK) because in my mind subconsciously there’s a high chance that person is dumb as fuck.
It’s something to keep in mind.
Don’t alienate those 36.32%. I’m sure some of us have strong feelings about their choices, but at the end of the day they outnumber Democrats and Republicans each by quite a bit. If you want to see change you are going to have to convince some of them to join you. This goes for elections and this goes for revolutions.
That’s the issue with the FPTP voting system, it always eventually leads to a 2-party state like the US and the majority of the population votes for someone other than the winning party.
This happens in literally every country with the same voting system as the US.
… So fucking what?
“Ooh, he hasn’t got a mandate.” Yeah, know what he has got?
CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT. And no intention of ever giving it up.
(Yes, I know, don’t abandon hope, organise, and all that. But crap like this just reads like “it’ll obviously work out fine just wait it out” shit. Which famously Does Not Fucking Work)
Idk, I can respect where you’re coming from, but this meme feels more to me like a counter to people who are saying “Trump won, this is what America voted for, if you fight against his agenda you’re fighting against the will of the people” etc. type crap
Totally agreed that just hoping things will work out fine isn’t any kind of plan, but a reminder that the average human being doesn’t like what’s happening right now can help people feel a little less crazy when they’re staying informed about current events
But aren’t we though, in a way? A bunch of people looked at everything Trump and Project 2025 promised, and said, ‘meh, seems fine, I see no reason to vote against this.’ That means they either agreed with what those things were saying, or at least don’t mind them.
In other words, tacit support.
I think that undersells how uninformed most folks are, and how weak critical thinking skills are, on average. Too many people were credulous when trump said he didn’t know anything about project 2025, and many people currently getting deported believed they’d only deport “hardened criminals”. So I don’t think it’s even being fine with these terrible policies, I think a lot of people were simply ignorant.
The ignorance is by design of course, so I’m not trying to pin the blame solely on individuals: the disinformation landscape is a huge boost for right wing extremism, and of course the Democrats themselves just constantly shit the bed. The Dems aren’t Left enough to galvanize support from people who want real change in the system (so they say “fuck it” and either sit out, or become accelerationists), and even the policies they do tout that would help at the margins don’t get any attention - in part because they’re consistently bad at messaging, but also because nuanced, calm reasoning isn’t as attention grabbing as hate and fear.
And I think it should be obvious to anyone with eyes and two functional brain cells at this point that the Dems are the controlled opposition party.
That’s fair, good point
What meme? This has been posted exactly one time, right here. That doesn’t make a meme.
I don’t read it that way
Your vote only matters in swing states. The whole electoral college thing is fucked.
Yeah, it’s pretty dumb. The popular vote is what should matter. That’s the only way each vote counts as much as any other vote, which is like a basic principle of democracy.
didn’t Trump still win the popular vote though
Yes, but many people simply don’t vote because they know their chosen party will win easily. By the numbers there are more Democrats than Republicans.
fair enough
He got more votes than Harris, but less than 50%.
Internalizing the “your vote only matters in purple states” will turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy.
Previously blue states have turned purple, previously purple states have turned red. Nothing is set in stone, although resting on your laurels (if your state is blue) or giving up (if your state is red) will all but guarantee that the changes will only happen in one direction: the bad one.
In 2020, Texas would have gone blue were it not for Ken Paxton purging mail-in votes, by Paxton’s own admission.
Nothing is set in stone, so you need fight for every inch.
Internalizing the “your vote only matters in purple states” will turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy.
They’re not prophesizing about some future, but making an obvious factual statement about present reality.
Nothing is set in stone, so you need fight for every inch.
You should check out the current administration. They’re not leaving any time soon.
Does emphasizing “votes only matter in swing states” influence future votes?
~70% of the US adults either wanted trump or at least OK with him, and by extension are ok with the muskrat
Maybe it’s time for the rest of the world to realize it’s not “just trump” but the USA as a whole is very racist, stupid and backwards country.
Maybe the pushback against trump we see all around social media is just the small loud minority.
Maybe it’s time to not consider Americans friends, and to stop supporting it as much as possible. I’ve started cutting off the american-made stuff I buy.
Maybe the pushback against trump we see all around social media is just the small loud minority.
I think so too. They are not big, just loud.
Maybe it’s time for the rest of the world to realize it’s not “just trump” but the USA as a whole is very racist, stupid and backwards country.
We knew.
As someone who lives in a pre-determined state… It’s shocking how much these libs don’t understand the electoral system at all.
Maybe it’s time for the rest of the world to realize it’s not “just trump” but the USA as a whole is very racist, stupid and backwards country.
Why do you think people refuse to vote for genocidal candidates? Sure, their votes don’t matter but it’s also that there’s nobody to vote for.
It’s kinda strange to complain that people don’t vote while acknowledging that the whole system is racist trash.
~70% of the US adults either wanted trump or at least OK with him, and by extension are ok with the muskrat
Well, no. It sure looks like that from the corporate news spew, but no.
I need to mention that the reason why 20 million fewer voters voted is. Because of the massive voter suppression that was done prior to the 2024 election. So many people were purged from voters rolls and many polling places were closed it wasn’t funny.
Hitler got about 33% back when he started. He achieved his position by simply ignoring the law after that. Sounds familiar?
So they reformed the state after ww2, right?
No such change here. People literally swear their lives to “defending” the olde slavermaster pact.
They basically overhauled the politicla landscape completely. Actually, the allies installed a parliamentary system that fixed most issues of the German, British, and US system, and it has worked quite well, better than the originals.
I think you’re on to something. Presidential Republics are inherently unstable. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that South Korea is facing similar issues to America and both have Presidential systems.
After this settles if we aren’t all fighting in anarcho-capitalist communes, America might consider similar structural reform and consider a Prime Minister style of bicameralism (but they can call it President instead).
You make a good point and it’s a hopeful one
So 68.1% of the American public are complicit. Worse than I thought TBH. Fuck.
Yeah, no, that’s not how that works. We’ve got the electoral college, remember? There were 20 states that went blue. Any additional votes to Harris in those states wouldn’t have made Trump win less, refraining to vote in those states ultimately didn’t matter. You need to look at the percentage of people that didn’t vote in states that went red. But I get it, its easier to blame everyone who didn’t vote than to use critical thought.
Yeah, pretending that it wasn’t a landslide is a grand delusion.
“Yeah, pretending that it was
n’ta landslide is a grand delusion.”FTFY
Complicit with genocide? That’s everybody who voted actually.
In the US it’s legal for corporations to create propaganda outlets which stream nonstop lies designed to get sensitive individuals to vote fascists. It’s impossible to have democratic elections and have completely disinformed and propagandized voters. Yet even after killing hundreds of thousands of conservative voters the courts have sided with the propaganda outlets.
Yeah, these numbers are generally brought up to “show” how weak Trump support is. But, what I see is that leftists are not a majority, even among people that give a damn. So, if leftists are going to make any progress, they need to take concrete actions with whoever they can agree with for that project, instead of attacking other leftists (because they didn’t vote e.g.) and going no-contact with everyone that’s not as ideologically pure as yourself.
We have to build consensus and lead by example before we can win at the polls.
Democrats arent leftists. Left of the the republicans isn’t the same as being a leftist, and voting for democrats doesn’t make you a leftist.
I didn’t say democracts were. But leftists that did vote voted D as harm reduction.
The mistake here is assuming that the dems are left.
Where exactly did I say Dems are left? I self-identify as a (democratic) socialist, and there’s plenty of infighting all over the left: anarchists, communists, etc.
I voted for the Dems, but that’s harm reduction not agreement.
Compulsory voting in Australia is looking good
