If it takes you hours to debloat Windows, you better stick with an OS you do know.
Every time I see a Linux user’s criticism of a problem with Windows, it’s the kind of thing your grandma asks you to fix for her and takes ten seconds 😂
Calling Windows unstable in this day and age is fucking laughable too. If your installation is unstable, it’s either you or your hardware
Unless you have an Nvidia card.
I’ve been on linux for years, I work the Nvidia libraries all the time, I alternate booting wayland and X… I even use my AMD IGP as output these days, instead of the Nvidia card.
And I STILL hold my breath wondering if I’m going to get a blackscreen, and have to go into tty mode or boot from a usb stick to investigate and fix it.
I… have had an NVIDIA 2080ti since they are sold (so… about 6 years?) and use it daily, gaming, using it for selfhosting AI a bit with CUDA and… just works, from gaming to tinkering. I don’t get those comments. Sorry you had such a bad experience, it’s not mine.
IF you are a distro hopper try openSUSE, nVidia maintains a repo on their own servers for the SUSE/OpenSUSE drivers. I have not had any GPU issues for 7 years.
I’ve been lucky then, only problems I’m having (Wayland + NVidia) are:
- Steam menu corruption, mostly on friends window (can be solved by maximising window)
- Maximising browser on my second screen results in not all the screen being used, but buttons react as if they were using the whole screen (so you’re not clicking where you think you are). Solution is to resize window to maximum manually. Minor annoyance.
Oh and I disabled stand-by entirely. It’s was 50/50 if it would return from it. I think most problems are because I have mismatched resolutions (1080 and 1440).
Android and iOS already replaced Windows for normies.
It’s mind boggling to me how many people don’t even use desktops anymore. Or do “serious” things like buy plane tickets on their phone. The younger generation is almost entirely phone-only.
I love Linux, a lot. I’ve distro hopped and tinkered to my hearts content. But I can’t let windows go, which is why I dual-boot with Windows 11 and currently, Bazzite.
Windows doesn’t have the ghub for my logitech mouse and headset. I can’t use my plugins for elite dangerous or extra software, like EDMC. Many games don’t work for various reasons (anti-cheat, or many other reasons). Can’t say, “well don’t play those games.”. Well, I want to. I like those games, and they don’t work on linux.
There is no AMD Adrenaline for my AMD GPU. I can’t use frame gen or many other features my card has. Battle.net games just refuse to work for me, try as I might to follow every tutorial ever (I just wanted to play Diablo IV T_T ). Those features are important to me.
OBS is much crappier on linux than on windows, due to no AV1 encoding support. As a streamer, AV1 looks MUCH better than whatever linux obs uses.
And lastly, Windows (even Windows 11), just works with everything. Any software you want, you just install it. On steam you don’t have to check proton.db, you’re 100% guaranteed for it to work. Any software you see, it works on windows. Any peripherals, just work. All their associated software, works.
I know not everyone games, but it’s the highest grossing entertainment market, so it’s important to more people than not.
According to a report by SuperData Research, the global gaming market was valued at $159.3 billion in 2020. This includes revenue from console games, PC games, mobile games, and esports. To put that in perspective, the music industry was valued at $19.1 billion in 2020, while the movie industry was valued at $41.7 billion. That means the gaming industry is making more than three times as much money as the music industry and almost four times as much as the movie industry. source
And lastly, Windows (even Windows 11), just works with everything. Any software you want, you just install it. On steam you don’t have to check proton.db, you’re 100% guaranteed for it to work. Any software you see, it works on windows.
This is not my experience at all. I was recently trying to play Command and Conquer: Tiberian Firestorm, an older RTS on Windows. I own the game through Steam. On Windows, the game wont open. It crashes immediately on launch. If i run the game in XP compatibility mode, it launches but when playing the game there is some sort of microstutter: every unit is blinking, the mouse cursor is blinking, and the game plays at a crawling pace. Also everything freezes whenever you move the camera.
When i boot into Fedora on the same PC, install with steam and launch with Proton, the game works fine. I was even able to install a resolution patch for windows to get higher resolutions available.
I find this to be a pretty common experience for me when trying to play older Windows PC games. There are quite a few I cant seem to get working (or playable) on Windows, but that work fine on Linux. I mostly play older games anyway so for me, Linux is more of a game console OS.
Sorry to hear Battlenet doesn’t work for you. D4 is another one i play only on Linux, in thas case because i get some weird graphical artefacts when playing on Windows. I haven’t bought the new expansion yet though, maybe after the holidays are over.
I can’t use my plugins for elite dangerous or extra software, like EDMC.
Why not? The github page even says it will work with wine. I’ve not played ED for a long time. But, I am sure I had EDDiscovery at least working with it in linux a few years ago. Other games like WoW I have external tools that interface with it working fine, some within the same wine environment, some even external. You just need to make sure the drive is mapped (you can always go via the Z: drive too) where the app expects it.
From my experience, I have steam working and pretty much every game I want to play has worked. I don’t play games with kernel anti-cheat even in windows, so I’m not missing anything there. Battle net runs fine even with ray-traced shadows in wow. Pretty much everything else I need works. The only things I miss are the games that are part of XBOX/Windows store, but that’s hardly Linux’s fault. Maybe visual studio too. But I do have the OSS “Code” to cover most I did in VS so…
I have dual boot, I’ve not used it to go to windows in weeks. Almost everything just works fine.
What I have heard on coding shows is making the Windows game available for Linux is clicking a check box for export/compile for Linux. And companies don’t.
Urm. No. In a few cases thats true, but for most complex systems, or even just ones that rely on non-default engine extensions (a category that includes nearly all games), they really do need work invested into them. Steam and proton are are making this better but its really not at ‘just check a box’ levels of ease yet.
There’s no beginner friendly Linux OS, but…if you willing to learn a thing or two about linux (at least know how to install programs, updating system, & install your favorite Windows program on wine bc you can’t find equivalent linux program) i think you’ll loved Linux so much because it’s so flexible.
If you encounter errors, don’t worry, there’s answer how to fix it, all you need is Google/DuckDuckGoThis won’t be popular but I haven’t had a stability problem on my home Windows 11 pro (server) machine. I disabled online login during first boot setup so maybe that’s why … my network handles telemetry shenanigans so I’m not worried about that. Never bothered to put a Linux on it, which was the plan, since it’s not failed once, it’s been a few years since it was spooled up. 🤷🏼♂️
I found it impossible to set up 11 pro without a Microsoft account. Did you put one in for install and disable it after?
On 10 if you cut network access during install it’d let you set up offline accounts. On 11 it refuses to finish the installation until you connect to the internet somehow. I had to put my linux laptop in AP mode and connect a patch cable to the windows PC because i hadnt loaded the wifi drivers on the USB i had.
Shift +f10 to open a command prompt in the installer
OOBE\bypassnro
It reboots and restarts the out of box experience, but this time ‘I don’t have internet’ will be available as an option
Bonus tip, don’t choose a password either, as it will force stupid recovery questions. You can add that after first boot with net user on the command line.
Thanks! I appreciate learning the magic incantation
This one makes a lot more sense.
I wish I could use Linux at work but the software used does not have any alternative (that I can use) and I can’t be bothered with debloating and all that jazz. I try to keep work and private seperate instead.
Tried get my dad to use Linux for his work but had problems with his clients not being able to open the files he sent using the Linux word and Excell programs. So that’s clear for him not to use Linux.
My work has a process for requesting software. Over the last five years, I’ve been slowly getting open source alterntives approved, using them, and telling coworkers they’re approved. It’s just one super specialized software left.
Teams.
I fucking hate teams.
Why are we using teams.
Why did they change outlook, it used to actually be good.
There used to be a linux repo for installing teams but they recently removed it. Now you’re forced to use the shitty excuse of a PWA.
Either way I’m stuck on W11 at work. No way am I installing teams on my machine at home.
To me the funniest part is that telemetry is usually for ads to convince people to buy stuff, and secondly for nation states to track you, but the debloat crowd usually never leaves home (a registered address) or buys anything, and surprisingly apt at credit card points with the money they do spend (the og trackers).
My experience is the opposite.
Took an hour just to get a mouse to work on Mint
Took hours to get wifi working on Mint after wasting a day trying to get my GPU working on Bazzite (all AMD setup before someone asks)
Meanwhile I install windows with English UK as my language and don’t get any of the bullshit people complain about AND everything works.
I’ll play Fallen Order on Linux (shader issue on Windows causes stutter while they’re loading while the game is running) and will probably uninstall it and just continue using Windows.
That’s wild. Mice are a generic driver just like on Windows. It should be plug and play on either OS.
Why did it take an hour? Any idea what was happening?
mfs dont know about “O&O ShutUp 10++”
Recently I have problem with high you and cpu usage, mainly GPU(GeForce 1060). Trying to troubleshoot it and updating drivers but so far it’s still doing it with game that shouldn’t be that demanding (timber born). So I’m debating switching completely to Linux already have Linux mint on second drive but remember having problems with the GPU drivers too. So while I like the simplicity and not bloated os not sure I want to troubleshoot other stuff and learning new os and using command line. I’m still very much noob with Linux so just want to ideally set it and for it just work and occasionally update without stuff breaking. -just a bit of rant about deciding, sorry if it doesn’t belong here.
There is Bazzite which is setup for gaming, and has ISOs specific to hardware type
Just make them install Arch, I did just fine…
Why not Gentoo?
Because debian.
Same, but normies wont bother to RTFM
The wiki is great for those, who have some experience in Linux, not so for beginners.
It isnt that hard, moved from wondows 10 to mint, and a few months later to arch, and it took me less than 2 hours to install arch, and thats with slow internet.
And i learned a lot whole doing it, like Dekstop environments, disk partitoning(root, swap, and boot), filesystems, and a lot more.
I wouldnt recommend it to everyone, but it is great if you want to learn more about computers.
The wiki is actually good for beginners, too. As you are often forced to reallylly read through subpages and cross-referenced topics until you somewhat understand why you are doing something instead of just how. Doesn’t make it easy ofc but a beginner can totally handle the wiki, it just takes more time.
Yeah, this has more or less sold me on giving arch a shot in the near future. I really need to get some fundamental Linux knowledge under my belt, and the arch wiki is legendary for being pretty comprehensive.
I may get stabbed for this but, go for Endeavour, unless a (probably needlessly) tedious install process is important to you.
I had vanilla Arch up and running for a bit but kept having issues with Steam, so switched to Endeavour and haven’t had any issues since. Its still a pretty basic version of Arch, with a few minor QoL improvements like having yay and a DE already installed.
Where did the ‘windows resets all settings after an update’ thing start?
Somehow I’ve never seen this over using windows 10 for years…
The privacy stuff? I’ve seen it happen in 11 for sure. I always check after an update now out of habit. But, not seen it in a while.
Resetting dual boot stuff? Before EFI/UEFI it would happen on most windows updates. It would just overwrite the boot record in a totally arrogant fuck you to whatever was already there. But since EFi/UEFI it plays nice with other operating systems generally.
TBF it’s only happened to me once on 8.1 and once on 10. I think it’s an uncommon bug
Arch is driving down the middle, flipping off both sides while having the time of your life.
(Caution: May be best or worst. Commenter may be heavily biased as he uses Arch btw.)
My standard response to “just go Linux” :
I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.
As some background - I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol).
I had my first UNIX class in about 1990.
I run a Mint laptop (for the hell of it, and I do mean hell) . Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even POST.
Windows would never do this, no, Windows can never do this. It is incapable of running a battery to zero, it’ll shutoff before then to protect the battery. To really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows will not let a battery get to zero.
There no way even possible via the Mint GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions. None, nada, zip, not at all. Command line only, in the twenty-furst century, something Windows has had since I don’t recall, 95 I think (I was carrying a laptop then, and I believe it had hibernate, sorry, it’s been what, almost thirty years now).
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. While I don’t disagree with the sentiment, no, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.
Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? Again, in the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. In the 21st century?
Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a third-party download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of Windows since Win2k (at the least) and would probably work on Win95.
Someone else said it better than me:
Every time I’ve installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it’s gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn’t look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works… only it doesn’t save my preferences.
So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically… but that doesn’t work, so now I can’t boot… so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that… then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution… wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it’s been four hours, it’s 3:00am and I’m like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.
And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren’t supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can’t wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?
I just can’t do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I’ve loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.
I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s of a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.
Linux doesn’t even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it’s own way), and that’s a massive barrier for users.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).
Some pretty wild claims in there. It’s okay to just not like it without making stuff up like ‘Linux doesn’t support Logitech mice’ or ‘windows can never run a laptop battery to zero’.
