More dataisdepressing than dataisbeautiful
It’s weird that the axes of where “centre” is remain stable over time. Can you imagine comparing “left vs right” between the 1890s and the 1920s? Like a bunch of stuff happened in between, history happened, and that tends to redefine left, right and centre.
Great observation! This is called the Overton Window
I wonder why Dessalines is posting this sort of stupid charts
Sauce, for those interested - https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998
In the US, Gallup data shows that after decades where the sexes were each spread roughly equally across liberal and conservative world views, women aged 18 to 30 are now 30 percentage points more liberal than their male contemporaries. That gap took just six years to open up.
So it might be worth taking it with a pinch of salt because I’m betting it’s using the very dumbed down “liberal vs conservative” 'murican political view. Maybe skew all results down 3-6 points.
Difficult to assess this info without knowing how the data was created.
Also hard to believe the American average is +20 leaning lib. The country is represented by a fascist party and a centrist party, and anything more left than the centrist party is considered “far left”.
The graph is about young people, not the entire population. Young people in America are historically more progressive than older people.
Also why does liberal and conservative have to be on an absolute scale? The words liberal and conservative seem to me at least be about pushing politics in one direction or another. Because policy is always subject to change, shouldn’t the words liberal and conservative be relative to the political system they exist within?
Yes, “liberal” and “conservative” are relative, not absolute terms. There’s a concept known as the Overton Window which describes exactly this shift of what is considered the “center” and what is considered a radical left/right position in any given society at any given time.
The idea that people should vote for their representatives, for example, was once considered an extremist take that could ruin civilization itself if implemented. The Overton Window shifted and nowadays even most Fascists will at least pretend in public to agree with it.
And, I did miss that important detail.
It doesn’t have to be an absolute scale of course, but then why show 4 countries where all seem to deviate from the center? Are these country graphs even comparable?
Yeah I agree, it’s not a very good graph. I just get frustrated when people ridicule the US political system for everything. We have a lot to fix (like what’s causing women to become more liberal), but I think we need to focus on what’s actionable and reasonable to fix. We can’t become +20 more liberal overnight.
Canada is so fucked. I understand the fatigue with Justin Trudeau and the Liberals but if PP wins it truly is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
We deserve whatever comes from the next election. A person is smart. People are dumb.
Halp!!!
Those letters mean absolutely nothing to me
Canadian politics: red, Liberal party (center); blue, Conservative party (right); orange, New Democrat party (left); green, Green party (was kinda conservative, then had a meltdown around identity politics); BQ are kind of French separatists.
The colors are also meaningless as well since there was no global definition of each color means respective to political leanings. So it’s basically a meaningless picture. At least the OP graphic (while it has some pretty big problems) tells you which is left and which is right.
So here’s the question - is the scale consistent over time? That is, do we consider the same ideas left/right wing in 202x as we did in 199x?
Let’s assume it is. We’re seeing men lean towards the center/right, and a lot of people are asking why. The trouble is, the answer isn’t one people like to hear - in our headlong pursuit of equity, we’re introducing a lot of inequality. You lift the ladies up, while you let the men climb - all based on the assumption that the women had further to climb so what you’re doing is levelling the field.
Countering this is a sympathetic voice, one offering to bring back equality or offer a different kind of equity. Casting gender equity as a zero sum game, and pushing for equality aimed at the ones not being lifted up.
I often hear the “uneducated men” argument, but that’s just an ugly echo from the past serving those it once oppressed in a bitter irony. The reality is that even educated people can fall for propaganda. Especially when voting in what they see as their own self interest.
If the scale would not be consistent, the results is actual worse. The whole political spectrum is moving towards the right. Traditional left wing parties here in Germany doing right wing stuff is getting normal.
And I don’t see any left party in the U.K. or U.S. parliaments.
Cries in UK
Hopefully, in the distant future (as t -> inf), we will all become conservatives. Not out of resistance to change, but because we did so well: We have progressed to such an optimal point that any further step (progress) would lead to something worse. Maybe the trends reflect this?
in our headlong pursuit of equity,
Where the hell do you live where there has been a headlong pursuit for equity/equality?
Interestingly it looks like in 3 of 4 charts men have, at worst, returned to mean. It’s the women getting more leftist. And I don’t blame them.
Yeah, I would classify them as mean
I believe that a significant factor for this can be attributed to mental development and maturity of boys lagging behind that of girls of the same age, during formative years. And, please read on, if you assume my argument is “boys dumb, conservatives dumb. Q.E.D.”
The second factor is an education system where this offset in mental development/maturity is further confounded. Boys don’t typically do as well, because sitting idle and being a “good boy”, is more challenging. This leads to a path for boys to start working earlier, while girls get higher degrees. (I assume the trends for higher education by gender, to be similar, if not, then that can falsify this hypothesis).
What a person then observes they get from society, vs what you pay in terms of taxes, is skewed between these two groups, and highly correlated with gender.
If this hypothesis has any validity to to it, then one could argue that a way to mitigate this is by correcting the negative causes. Where the fundamental root cause might be improved by revisiting how education is failing boys in particular.
The challenge with this is that if the conservative parties’ policies are driven by what can make more people vote conservative, then this will be a negative feedback loop. The worse you make it for a certain group of people that vote for you, the more that group is willing to vote for you.
I think the issue is simpler, in that the traditionally dominant group statistically reacts negatively to the levelling of the field and their loss of control and power over the other group. This and the fact that it’s statistically harder to see the oppression and feel for it when you are not affected by it(and this goes for every form of oppression).
Ok, then this would mean older women would be skewing further liberal, not younger women who don’t have any life experience to have seen anything change in these ways.
Hey can you pls give me the source? I want to look into that.
Okay, but how many are leftists?
Conservative being down is a good presentation choice.
From a personal point of view, I agree, but playing devil’s advocate, really the chart should be flipped so that the left/rightness is shown that way and the dates are on the vertical axis.
It’d also be good if the time periods matched, and if there was a source for the data.
I sometimes think they turn conservative because women won’t date them.
I’m pretty sure women don’t want to date people who have any sort of disposition that leans towards hating them or believing that women are lesser than men.
Unfortunately, a lot of men learned that way of thinking early in life(from family and/or media) and it ruins any attempt at a relationship, then they blame women and run to the very people who set them up to fail for validation, or find new ones like that sex trafficker with the pizza boxes, or that canadian psychologist who sugar coats sexism online. Repeat ad nauseum.
I have an old high school friend who is very much into the whole Andrew Tate thing. His parents were separated, I don’t know the details as to why, but I do know that his father was a lot more stable than his mother, and I do sometimes wonder if he had lived with his father, if he would have turned out better.
He also thinks the earth is flat because… otherwise a ball would roll off a table. QED.
So not exactly firing an all cylinders to begin with.
In the age of social media I imagine people are actually a lot more antisocial than we used to be…. And if young men and young women are all online more now and actually go out to interact in person less than we used to, this would make it a lot more difficult for young men to interact with the young women long enough to ask them out….
Is this… tilted slightly?
Am I leaning?
left-leaning, maybe
Mine curves to the left
When I think of all the women & girls in my life that I care about, I remember that I could never be a conservative. It would be a betrayal.
Assuming this is accurate, I’m pleased to see men in the UK bucking the trend.
This is out of date.
People are losing faith rapidly in the left because they don’t seem to be for the everyday working class Briton like they used to be.
There is a big shift going to Reform now largely because they want to reduce immigration. The left deny the situation and the right have claimed they will reduce it every year then increase.
People are flooding to the “far right”* because they don’t seen the main parties address the main issue they want addressing and have been talking about for decades at this point, generations even.
_* not actually far right. But the left love throwing that term around to anyone that has a different opinion to them. They just want lower immigration, which historically has been a left leaning ideology
Look I don’t know how to tell you this but just because you live in a bubble doesn’t mean everybody else does.
That is not “a big shift in the UK towards reform”, don’t be daft. They only have 4 MPs only two of which ever bothered turning up, they are about as politically relevant as my underwear.
Also Reform absolutely are far right they are basically Nazis, albeit brainless lazy incompetent ones. You need to go outside and interact with normal members of the human race rather than whoever it is you’re talking to on the “I’m not racist but…” Facebook group
This is young people, not red-faced beast men fighting outside the kebab shop with pool cues.
Do you know something about the UK I don’t?
Please tell me about how the Tories link into this graph?
The graph appears to show that from approximately 2010 (Libdem & Tory coalition) onwards for women, and a few years later (when we somehow got a full Tory government) for men, the younger people shown on the graph, said or thought something along the lines of “this Tory government is awful and we need to move in the opposite direction”.
Hey look if you start taking away white male privilege they freak out when they find out people of other races, genders and creeds are better than them, who knew?
I’m surprised most comments here try to give any other explanation but this.
Then why are young men being disproportionately affected? Older men are not swinging like this.
Older men are generally already in a position of benefit, locked in a system where they cannot be taken down from their position of power. Reforms are coming at the beginning of the chain (entrance to university, internships and early job opportunities). Young men in families where their father/grandfather were in systems that benefited them - and also nepotism - have the understanding they will need to do very little to succeed. They have not put the effort in because they were told they would not have to compete.
Have a look at old laws for where you live in the world. Find out whether your mother or grandmother actually had the opportunity for higher education, or even whether she could get/keep a job after she had children and then form your own conclusions from there.
As women gain independence, frightened men turn to patriarchal solutions. Hence a turd like JD Vance spouting hateful and controlling rhetoric on podcasts and Ahole Tate brainwashing adolescent boys. Fuck these people.
Young men and young women haven’t been around long enough to have seen anything change like your suggesting. If that were the case it would be older women and men who are changing
