Edit: Surprised at all the vegans in this thread. I didn’t think there were so many of you. I’m glad you care so much about animal rights, that you’re willing to forego eating them and using products made from them. If you’re not vegan and have moral objections for this, maybe you should look at yourself first and all the animal abuse you sanction by eating animals and using animal products. Did you know dairy cows have to be pregnant to produce milk? They’re artificially inseminated throughout most of their lives. I hope everyone complaining about this also complains about ice cream and cheese. Or else they would be hypocrites who just want to blame others but never look at themselves.

  • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Am I the only one who thinks it’s fucked up to experiment on animals who can’t consent to this? We place so much emphasis on people being the most important thing in the world, we forgot that we are part of the ecosystem too.

    • htrayl@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      This is and will always be small potatoes in terms of the suffering we put relatively intelligent animals through every day.

      We would need to slaughter probably 100,000 animals yearly for the US organ demand (at ~50,000 transplants per year and a buffer).

      We slaughter 125 MILLION pigs in the US for consumption a year.

      Not to mention that “medical grade” pigs will probably be given a golden ticket in terms of care until they are slaughtered, compared to the extremely abysmal environment millions live in today.

      If animal welfare is important to you, scientific research is a poor use of advocating resources while we still eat hundreds of pounds of meat yearly. If advocates reduce meat consumption by even a percent or two it would generally greatly outweigh banning animal based research entirely.

      • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Sure, but the article isn’t about the inhumane treatment of our industrial meat production facilities. I’m well aware of them. And I want those gone too.

        • bobman@unilem.orgOP
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          1 year ago

          Good thing you’re not consuming or using animal products, then. Or else you’d be a hypocrite.

            • bobman@unilem.orgOP
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              1 year ago

              I mean, you can participate in society without eating meat. Lol.

              Unless you were talking to someone else?

    • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Animal testing isn’t ideal but for important medical advances, animal testing is the only way to demonstrate safety before human trials. At some point, you have to value the life of a human more than mice.

      And some of the testing is fun. Like when they give them a buzzer to get more drugs. Lab rats definitely consent to more cocaine.

          • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I will never understand how wanting to treat intelligent creatures with dignity is controversial.

            Seriously? Who even talks like this…

            • Rikudou_Sage@lemmings.world
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              1 year ago

              It’s not controversial, most people think it’s stupid. Controversial would be if so many people agreed with you that it would polarize the society. Which you might think is what happens, but it’s really not.

              Most people know that a human’s life is more valuable than an animal’s and think you guys are a little crazy. Treating them with dignity is fine by me, but pretending they’re on the same level as us is not.

              • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                It’s not stupid just because you think it is. Doctors also used to think that washing their hands between surgeries was unnecessary.

                Point is, just because I value live in general and don’t think humans are necessarily more valuable than anything else doesn’t make it crazy.

                • Rikudou_Sage@lemmings.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I’m not saying it’s a universal truth, you may have noticed I used words like “think”. To me you guys are crazy and I think it’s very stupid. But I never claimed it’s a universal truth.

    • bobman@unilem.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      I mean, you’re probably not the only one who thinks anything.

      That said, do you eat meat? If so, the meat and dairy industries systematically do egregious things to millions of animals every day.

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
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      Everyone is rushing in here to say it’s fine because we eat meat too. But I find this whole thing g very revealing of attitudes we usually just don’t think about. We’d never farm organs in human embryos because GASP consent and GASP sanctity of life. But we’ll farm organs cross species, which is surely more difficulty, because we’re so comfortable doing all that to animals.

      You can take the perspective that it’s fine because meat. Or you can use this to take a second look at eating meat and suddenly it seems pretty fucked up.

      I eat meat. Am not talking down to anyone. I just do actually think about the ethics.

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I take the perspective that it’s fine because human life is more important and valuable than animal life.

        Same reason we should eradicate most mosquitos on the planet to end malaria

        • scarabic@lemmy.world
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          That’s not a perspective though, it’s a bald assertion. “It’s fine because we’re important” is like saying “it’s fine because it’s fine,” or more to the point “it’s fine because I say so.”

          What makes us important?

          A lot of people don’t seem to understand that their logic is circular. Ask someone why they chose the car they did, and half of them will say “well it’s the one I wanted.”

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Animals are things and humans are people.

            You’re allowed to devalue your own existence all you want but anyone entertaining the idea that all life is equal is fundamentally stupid in my opinion

            • scarabic@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              You’ve graduated from bald assertions and circular logic to ad hominems.

              It’s ironic what a shit job you’re doing of demonstrating our higher functions and supposed superiority.

              “HUMAN GOOD! NOT HUMAN BAD.”

              Have a great day there, Socrates.

    • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Yeah, but you see; the animals are useful in a new way so ethics doesn’t matter. We’ll worry about that in 50 years when we no longer need them to grow new organs for us

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        We’ll worry about that in 50 years when we no longer need them to grow new organs for us

        Yes that would be appropriate.

        • FlowVoid@midwest.social
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          1 year ago

          Pigs are in no danger of extinction.

          And wanting to preserve natural ecosystems does not imply wanting to improve the treatment of livestock. Incidentally, the end of meat consumption would most likely lead to the extinction of multiple species of livestock.

        • Harrison [He/Him]@ttrpg.network
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          1 year ago

          We brought pigs into existence for the benefit of human conditions, we will take them out of it if and when it becomes necessary.