• originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com
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    4 months ago

    lack of local accounting means its no longer your operating system, youre now using a perpetually required service from microsoft.

    the walled garden is putting the last bricks in place. hope all you windows fans are …happy… asking apple microsoft for permission to use your own hardware.

      • Onihikage@beehaw.org
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        4 months ago

        I switched to Bazzite not long after the Recall AI announcement, shrinking my Windows partition to leave it for just VR stuff which currently doesn’t work well outside of Windows, at least on my system. It’s pretty great! Not perfect, but the problems I have on Bazzite are similar enough in quantity and degree to problems I had on Windows that I’ve basically switched out one set of weird OS quirks for another. The big difference is now I don’t have to think about the OS being disrespectful corporate spyware.

          • Onihikage@beehaw.org
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            4 months ago

            Not that I know of; Bazzite is completely based on Fedora Atomic Desktops, which are an immutable type of distro that makes the core OS a read-only image that all gets updated separately from system apps. The Ubuntu equivalent of Fedora Atomic Desktops is Ubuntu Core, but I don’t know if Bazzite has a Ubuntu Core-based equivalent. Bazzite is released by a group called Universal Blue, which makes prepackaged OS builds based on Fedora Atomic Desktops, with particular focus areas. Bazzite focuses on including all gaming-related tweaks, apps, configs, and optimizations out of the box, Aurora focuses on general desktop PC functionality, and Bluefin focuses on productivity, but in the end they’re all Atomic/Immutable distros based on Fedora. It’s worth poking through it all and picking one that best suits your needs.

            • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
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              4 months ago

              What parts of the immutable OS are read only? Like filesystem wise? I’m not sure I really get it.

              • Blisterexe@lemmy.zip
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                4 months ago

                The basic of immutable desktops is that every system file (what’s outside your home directory (folder) ) is readonly, you can install apps through the app store.

                But I’d say Linux mint (a Non-immutable) distro is what you should try first, because it’s more user-friendly and easier to get help for.

                • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
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                  4 months ago

                  Oh I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years. That’s not an issue.

                  I have a better idea now of what an immutable distro is thanks to your explanation. I don’t know if that’s what I would want after all.

                  I think I prefer the freedom of being able to modify my system files and configs as I need to customize my system as I see fit, even if it meansb potentially breaking something.

      • exscape@kbin.social
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        4 months ago

        You can still block it easily with the command prompt (Shift+F10 during the install) as mentioned. But don’t let that stop you from switching to Linux if you feel like it.

    • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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      4 months ago

      hope all you windows fans are …happy… asking apple microsoft for permission to use your own hardware.

      It’s been this way for decades, really. Apple, Google, MS, etc. Even if they let you use it without an account, they’ll literally never stop pressuring you and annoying you into signing into an account.

      • psvrh@lemmy.ca
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        4 months ago

        Apple doesn’t actually make it at all difficult to use a Mac or iOS device without an Apple account. You’re asked once during setup and that’s it. At most there’ll be a red dot in Settings>iCloud.

        • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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          4 months ago

          They do, actually. There’s a bunch of first party software you can’t remove, perpetual notifications you can’t clear about setting up iCloud, etc.

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            4 months ago

            There’s one notice, and it’s in the System Settings app. And it’s a little red dot beside the iCloud section. That’s not really the same league as what Microsoft is doing, or Even Google’s nag to use Chrome across all their Web properties.

            You’re right about the first-party apps that you can’t remove, but it’s also not the same as, eg, Edge where those apps are used constantly and your preferences are reset on every update.

            On my Mac I set my browser to Firefox in 2018. It’s never reverted to Safari, not once, where Windows really wants me to use Edge and goes so far as to not just reset it periodically, but also direct start menu searches and in-app web links to an ms-edge: url instead of using the http handler.

            Apple has problems, but this isn’t one of them.

            • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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              4 months ago

              That’s not really the same league as what Microsoft is doing

              I didn’t say it was. It is intentionally and perpetually annoying, nonetheless.

        • Auzy@beehaw.org
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          4 months ago

          You can’t use a lot of apps without it

          So sure you can, but it isn’t an awesome experience

      • tektite@slrpnk.net
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        4 months ago

        But apparently you DO need an Apple ID to access an Apple Notes file that was shared to your Android by your crazy ex who doesn’t know that without an iPhone you won’t be able to read their undoubtedly unhinged, rambling guilt trip. Thanks Apple!

        • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
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          4 months ago

          Sure it could, but I think Apple makes so much on overcharging for the machine itself they don’t need to be so aggressive over data collection just logically.

          • tabular@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Sadly I think they have to aim to do both, to make the most money as a publically traded company.

            Last I heard Apple was protecting it’s users from Facebook collecting their data… by being the ones who collect it instead. Maybe that not quite right as I don’t listen to news on Apple (outside of their opposition to right to repair).

    • toastal@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      We would have that freedom with Android too if those stupid banking apps stopped trying to dictate what you can run on your hardware & Google giving them more features to do so.

  • hperrin@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    I love how there is an entire group of people who think it’s perfectly normal to “fight” the company that makes the OS they use.

    (This message brought to you by the Linux gang.)

          • Zeroxxx@lemmy.id
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            4 months ago

            In my company, people were shocked at the hint I might change their Windows to Linux on a whim. They’re all so attached to Windows.

            And I was joking!

            • hellofriend@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              Tbh I see this as a problem. For instance, I’ve been considering going into politics and one of my main concerns is the security of our government’s information. Right now the Americans could have a direct line of access to all of our doings simply because we use Windows. Not to mention there’s the matter of Recall which, while not implemented in Windows 10, will likely be included when the government switches from Windows 10. That itself is a huge security risk. So the only options are to implement an existing Linux distro or to fork and maintain one specifically for the government. And that would be all well and good if it didn’t require retraining every government employee to use Linux.

    • Redex@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Yeah but on the other hand you also have to wrestle with Linux a lot, and personally usually a lot more time wise. It’s all tradeoffs and what people care more about.

      • bamfic@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        true, but you’re not fighting malice or greed, you’re fighting laziness and arrogance. diffeeent vibe.

        • hellofriend@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          I’m not entirely certain about that. For instance, on Linux I always have to look up how to create symlinks even though I’ve been using the OS exclusively for three years. On Windows, it is: Right click -> Create shortcut. It’s easier for most people to remember a 2 action process than a console command with multiple options and specific syntax. But of course, this is only one example and doesn’t apply to everything. For instance, I have absolutely no trouble remembering mkdir, cp, or rm. I think it’s a bit of a mixed bag.

        • Redex@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          To some extent that is true. But on the other hand, Windows is both usually easier to learn (has a UI for 99% of stuff, basic design principles dictate that it’s much easier to remember what to click on than what to type), and it just works. I rarely have to interact with the OS in any way to get something to work. I’ve tried multiple times to switch to Linux, but it just has so much stuff that doesn’t work out of the box, or at all. Da Vinci Resolve has a native version which is completely broken, Dota 2 has a native version but doesn’t pre compile shaders, so whenever e.g. I open a new hero in the hero list it lags for 1-2s, many games with anti cheat don’t work, good luck with anything in VR, no popular distro that I’ve seen has a clipboard and the ones I found online are just worse than the Windows one, etc.

          I want to switch, I really do, but I’m already a power user on Windows, I would have to learn a lot to be on the same level on Linux, add onto that the fact that a lot of stuf that’s important to me just doesn’t work properly on Linux, it just doesn’t make sense for me, and for most people they’re gonna be a lot less willing to switch. Most people will not bother trying to change something, even if it’s objectively better. Most people just want to stick with what already works for them, and until Linux is able to just work with no need for user intervention, especially through terminals which people fear, it’s still a long way from mainstream adoption.

    • bl4kers@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      If people didn’t do this it would happen faster. Not everyone has the luxury of immediately switching, just like the “move to another state” argument

  • ofcourse@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    Wouldn’t it be possible to buy a new PC, open the box, and return it right after because you cannot set it up without internet?

    If enough people do it, may be PC manufacturers will force Microsoft to add offline setups.

    • SecureTaco@lemmy.asc6.org
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      4 months ago

      Funny you say that, setting it up without internet is one of the few ways left to still be able to create a local account.

      • ofcourse@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        If I understand correctly from the article, you have to enter ‘OOBE\BYPASSNRO’ in command prompt during installation to prevent it from asking to connect to internet. If that’s the only way to set up a local account, that’s hardly an accessible option.

      • linearchaos@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        There’s no clear path from getting the computer out of the box just setting it up without internet. If you call the manufacturer and they know what the hell they’re doing they’ll walk you through doing the OOBE no internet fix. It just needs to be an option in the damn operating system. The fact that they’re hiding it from you is unconscionable.

      • Mio@feddit.nu
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        4 months ago

        It was not an option one week ago when i tested it. Maybe because I was in WiFi range and Microsoft assumed you have to know the password to at least one of them to pass the wifi screen. No skip button. But could create a new account as unverified using gmail address.

  • entropicshart@sh.itjust.works
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    4 months ago

    I’ve been debating for a while to switch windows to Linux and see how well it works for my games, thanks Microsoft for finally pushing me to do it!

    Only thing keeping me on windows has been games (all other development use is far easier on Linux); but with the work that happened with Steam Deck, many games are now fully functional on Linux.

    • fernandocarletti
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      4 months ago

      Depending on what games you are playing, it should be a breeze. I ditched my windows installation last march and no regrets so far. Most of the games I enjoy run OOB in Linux, but some that I played occasionally are not supported, so I just live without them.

    • sylver_dragon@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Did the same. The writing has been on the wall for a long time, Microsoft’s anti-user behavior is only set to get worse. I made the jump to Linux (Arch) and things have been reasonably smooth. I did have a few issues with Enshrouded, but was able to get past those with Proton-GE. The only issue I haven’t worked around yet is Roblox with the kids. But, I may just have to pick up a cheap tablet for that.

      • oo1@lemmings.world
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        4 months ago

        Does emulating via waydroid not work for android games? I don’t really do android games so not sure how well waydroid performs for that type of stuff - but it seems okay for a few android apps i’ve tried.

        • Bilb!@lem.monster
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          4 months ago

          The last time I tried that getting google play services working was a long, annoying process and did not work. I don’t expect google to make any of that easy for us.

          • oo1@lemmings.world
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            4 months ago

            fair point, i’m very used to just using f-droid, aurora, or sideloading apks from dubious places, for my phone and tablet, that i completely forget how much android stuff “needs” google services.

            I got netflix running without google play, i think installed from aurora store. It needed a script to install widevide DRM that seemed to work.

            But I can imagine things like games being more of a pain especially with online.

        • sylver_dragon@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          That is a possibility. To be honest, I haven’t tried very hard yet. I’m currently working on spinning up a Win10 VM in KVM and I’ll see how that works. And Android emulator is another good idea, I’ll have to give that a go.

    • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      For me, working in IT, two things are keeping me on Windows:

      • games
      • IT tools only made for Windows.

      Most remote access stuff is entirely Windows based. Sure, there’s clients so you can connect to Linux, Mac, whatever, from the admin console, but the plugins and whatnot that actually show you the remote users desktop are almost entirely Windows exclusive. There’s sometimes a Mac option, but almost never a Linux option.

      Using something that’s more common/public, like TeamViewer isn’t really an option. There’s a plethora of business focused RMM tools that are just web apps with Windows plugins for all the heavy lifting.

      The part that gets me, is that any of these tools which allow for self hosting, can have the server and client side on Linux, but the IT team doing the work only gets Windows as an option for the remote control tools.

      Infuriating.

      • toastal@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Why do IT teams think being able to snoop any users screen is a good thing? Leave folks alone. Get authorized key consent to SSH into their box iff necessary.

        This is why I only work with BYOD operations…

        • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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          4 months ago

          There’s a lot of trust required in IT. You must be a trustworthy person. Being fired for a trust related reason is basically a death sentence for an IT career. That being said, none of the tools I typically work with will provide previews of a user’s screen, or such previews will be low enough resolution that reading what is on screen is basically impossible.

          When we connect to a system and get a full resolution image of what’s going on, pretty much always there’s some on screen indication of us being connected.

          IMO, this is how it should be.

          The only time I’ve actively tried to “spy” on a user’s activity, has been when requested to do so by a manager/owner, usually when pursuing an allegation of inappropriate use of a work computer. Even then it’s been very rare, and I can only recall one such instance of it happening at all.

          As an IT person, I will say, I could care less what you do with the equipment. I’m busy enough, I don’t need to fill my day with watching you do your job. Yes, we have tools which can allow us to eavesdrop on everything you do, I don’t touch them unless I absolutely must, usually only if I’ve been ordered to.

          Another poster pointed out that work resources do not belong to you and legally, they’re right. The system, including all data and work contained therein is legally the property of your employer. This includes your email and any correspondence, and anything else that work provides as a function of your employment. If you create an excel work sheet that does some data processing for you, or reformats information in a better way, during work hours, that sheet isn’t yours. The ownership of the sheet is your employer. Though you did the work in creating it, your employer owns it because they paid you for the time/effort to do so.

          Personally, I do whatever I can to avoid interacting with users unique files. I recently refused to work on someone’s personal iPhone because it contained personal data. Though their work email was probably present on the device, I didn’t want to touch it. I did however, provide instructions for them to do what they were asking themselves.

          When interacting with work-owned systems, I’ll modify the registry, and run command line commands without the users knowledge, in an effort to reduce the disruption to their workflow, while solving an issue. Generally this is when I have a request from that user, or the company, to get something done, such as install a piece of software. You’ll be working away and poof, new software appears.

          Anyone in IT unnecessarily snooping in on your files, can be fired with cause, ruining their career, if they’re caught.

          We have access to everything, and I mean everything, in an organization. Your email, files, databases, software… Partly for troubleshooting, and partly for performing backups. If we don’t directly have access, typically we have permission to grant access, so we can grant ourselves permission to access whatever we need to. This means that IT is one of the highest trust areas of the business. We can read the CEO’s emails, send mail as anyone, access everyone’s files, and delete all data on everything in such a way that it is impossible to recover. We need the access to do our jobs and violating the trust we have with that access, is unforgivable and a career-ending event.

          I will say that I have not met any IT professionals who will snoop, spy, eavesdrop, or otherwise examine what you do or what data you have or interact with, without a good reason. If it happens, it’s likely that someone else, such as a manager, has requested that we do. We are merely the middleman in that scenario. Bluntly, we’re too busy than to just do it for kicks.

          If any IT professional has violated trust, I would report it to management. It is grossly inappropriate to access a user’s system without just cause.

          As for notifications, that varies depending on the request. I typically only inform people when I need to remotely control their desktop (interrupting their work) and I’m generally very receptive to being asked to wait before connecting so any sensitive information can be dealt with and closed before the session is established. I have no issue with that. I don’t need, nor want to know any more than I do. I’m never looking for illicit or illegal things unless they are creating a problem (excessive bandwidth use, excessive disk use, etc). For the most part, I try to stay in my lane. I’m here to help, not spy on you to get you fired.

          • toastal@lemmy.ml
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            4 months ago

            Thanks for confirming some of my suspicions about how it all actually operates & the reasons for doing so.

            I really just don’t like this in principle as it is way