• cough “…although documented sources have yet to confirm this through further evidence.” [citation needed] cough

    Not even the wikipedia page you posted is willing to call this anything but hearsay. Don’t waste peoples time with this shit

      • HumanBehaviorByBjork [any, undecided]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        so let’s recap: you said that abuses took place under communism, implying that therefore we cannot ascribe the violence of labor under capitalism to capitalism, or imagine that anything could be otherwise. this is already a nonsequitur, but then the explicit example you provided was shown to be highly spurious, so now you’ve resorted to just begging the question. do you have anything else to contribute to the discussion here or are you just twiddling your thumbs?

        • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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          so let’s recap

          Acktually …

          My final point would be this: whether its capitalism, communism, or some other mishmash, if humans are involved and are building the system, someone is gonna get the short end of the stick.

          The problem isn’t the -isms, it’s people.

          • JuneFall [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            The problem isn’t the -isms, it’s people.

            That is about the most absurd claims I have heard in a long, long time.

            Does expose that you see other humans as problems instead of as humans.

          • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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            My final point would be this: whether its capitalism, communism, or some other mishmash, if humans are involved and are building the system, someone is gonna get the short end of the stick.

            Your final point? So far you’ve made none, and you’ve failed to engage with people responding to your argument in good faith. This “point” of yours you’ve already made before, but you’ve failed to engage with the people responding to it.
            Are you always such a little pissbaby?
            Do better, educate yourself

            • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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              Are you always such a little pissbaby?

              Yes. You worked it out. Well done.

              Your final point? So far you’ve made none

              So when I wrote “this is my final point”, that didn’t count as a final point? Wow, I didn’t know that it didn’t work that way. Thank you for correcting me.

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                So when I wrote “this is my final point”, that didn’t count as a final point?

                Yes because things don’t just become something because you say it. For you to have a final point, you need to make a point. You failed to do so. Hope this helps!

                Thank you for correcting me.

                You’re welcome! Glad to see you’re developing some humility. This is the first step towards not being a dickhead :)

      • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        Communism as a system is structured to reduce exploitation of workers by eliminating the profit motive and instead produce on a centrally planned basis to meet everyone’s needs.

        Capitalism as a system is structured to exploit the maximum amount of labor to generate high profits for the capitalist class.

        Both systems will have instances of exploitation of labor. The difference is one of them is structured around increasing it, the other decreasing it to the point of abolishing it entirely. Judging socialist projects because of cases of exploitation of labor, in their nascent stages, is like criticizing capitalism in the aftermath of the French Revolution because there were still parts of France that maintained similar conditions to Feudalism for some years.

        • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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          1 year ago

          in their nascent stages

          I could argue that we’re still in the nascent stages of capitalism. Claiming “nascent stages” is like claiming “but that wasn’t real communism. If we did this this way it would be better.”

          • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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            I could argue that we’re still in the nascent stages of capitalism.

            You could argue that but you’d be wrong, and you’d also fail to engage with the argument the other user gave you. Have you considered you’re maybe not such a smart little boy as you think you are? horsepoo-theory

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                Glad to hear it! Though I would caution against changing your worldview based on a single interaction. I’d recommend widening your horizon and gathering information in order to have a well-grounded worldview. If you need literature please feel free to ask!

          • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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            We’re at least 200 years into capitalism and it’s reached the end of its lifespan. As the USSR and now China, DPRK, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos and some other places demonstrate. Even if they didn’t prove that humanity is ready to transition into the next stage of development, we would know that capitalism is on its death bed for one simple reason: if it continues for much longer it will destroy almost all life on the planet. The best thing about capitalism is it’s lifespan.

              • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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                No argument there. Just goes to show how destructive it is. Almost like the increasing concentration of capital in fewer and fewer hands with the increasing impoverishment of the masses of workers is a recipe for revolution. We can marvel at how rapid the contradictions within the capitalist mode of production led to it’s end.

      • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        speech-r smuglord

        I think the one you posted as a gocha has no proof, and now you’re fumbling. Consider the fact that you might not be all-knowing.
        Consider the fact that the reason your arguments are met with mockery is not because they scare us or challenge our worldview, but because we have already encountered them and investigated them. There is nothing novel about your input.
        Consider the fact that we’re almost all westerners - we have all encountered the same propaganda as you have. We’ve just looked into it

        • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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          now you’re fumbling

          This isn’t a sport, nor a zero sum game. We’re discussing something. There is no winner or loser, that’s not how a conversation works.

          Consider the fact that you might not be all-knowing.

          Again, do you treat all discussions as some kind of debating game?

          There is nothing novel about your input.

          I’m considering not becoming a communist purely to avoid having to encounter characters like the one in this thread.

          • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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            This isn’t a sport, nor a zero sum game. We’re discussing something. There is no winner or loser, that’s not how a conversation works.

            I wasn’t using a sport metaphor lmao. You’re still fumbling.

            Again, do you treat all discussions as some kind of debating game?

            I treat this interaction like a game, because it is impossible to take seriously

            I’m considering not becoming a communist purely to avoid having to encounter characters like the one in this thread.

            “Someone was rude to me, so now I’m a fascist”