If both parties are the same then why is one party trying to do every possible thing to make it difficult for certain groups of legal US citizens to simply vote, let alone challenge every single outcome where they don’t win?
Well see this guy I know says that its better to not vote because then youre playing into their hand and you should just be an individual, because all campaigns are just a money funnel to see who can make the most money, and the government creates monopolies with corporations so we need to get rid of government and instate a king.
Both parties are representatives of the capitalist class. They differ in terms of which wings of the capitalist class they are bought by, not which workers they support, because neither supports workers. A whole new system is necessary, a socialist one, and neither party will bring that.
Revolutions happen when there is a mass revolutionary socialist party, mass class consciousness, and a crisis in the capitalist system that leaves the capitalist class too weak to defend itself. You don’t just start a revolution, you prepare for one by making the first two prerequisites as developed as possible. This creates the actuality of revolution. Election time or not, I will still be advocating for revolution.
Lol. Eventually you’re going to need to create a new account not on .ml if you want people to even read your comments before downvoting. You guys have destroyed your credibility.
Your reactionary responses to being corrected on your delusional beliefs about the US empire are not my fault or my problem, I’m just gonna keep on being right about shit and whoever wants to listen can do so
The system is corrupt, not everyone involved is corrupt or has been corrupted. I do my best to learn who isn’t corrupt, but we live in this system and not participating in it only hurts me.
The system isn’t corrupt, it’s working for the same group it always has: the capitalist class. There has never been a point that this has not been true. Perhaps for a short period during reconstruction, before that got taken over and destroyed.
It’s easy on the mind to falsely equate the two parties but there’s a reason there aren’t El-Sayeds, Tlaibs, Sanders, AOCs, Mamdanis, and Talaricos within the Republican coalition but exist in Dem circles. There’s a reason Dems end more wars than they start. There’s a reason Dems brought around Same-sex marriage. There’s a reason a Dem president worked hard to get the JCPOA passed but a Republican one undermined it.
Both sides are thus far from the same. Democrats are undeniably better. This is a false equivalence fallacy.
For the record, I have this user tagged as supporting Jill Stein in 2024, pushing a spoiler vote that only ever enables Republicans.
I don’t have them tagged. I just have their username memorized from how many times I’ve downvoted them.
Democrats are objectively better. And in a system where only two parties have the clout to win, especially on a federal level, it is objectively smarter to vote for the objectively better one.
I have voted for Jill Stein three times now. If you want me to vote for the Democratic candidate, the solution is simple: get them to adopt Stein’s platform.
I don’t have any particular loyalty to Stein or even to the Green Party in general. Politics isn’t a team sport for me. All I care about is policy.
the solution is simple: get them to adopt Stein’s platform during the Democratic Primaries where you decide which type of candidates run under the Democratic banner.
After that, it’s pretty clear:
Democrats are better on Climate Change (Dems joined Paris Climate Agreement; Trump/Republicans left it)
Democrats are better on Healthcare (Thank Dems for No Preexisting conditions, out of pocket maximums, extended dependents on parental plans; Trump withdrew from WHO)
Democrats are better on diplomacy (forged the JCPOA, did not start war with Iran).
Democrats are better on the subject of Ukrainian sovereignty (and conversely, Russian genocide).
Some Democratic members are the only ones who denounce Israel’s genocide against Palestinians.
Democrats are better on LGBTQ+ Rights
Democrats are better on Women’s Rights (e.g., Pro-Choice).
Being better is all that matters come November general election, given the nature of a binary-choice election. If you want different parties, then one must first change the rules from within and abolish FPTP that yields mathematical convergence to two-party rule.
If you are unfamiliar with the Spoiler Effect, I encourage you to read up on it because what you’re doing is actually enabling fascist Republicans to win, since I assume these are your top issues.
If not, please tell me what your top 3-5 issues and core values are and I’d be happy to discuss.
I have my gripes with Democrats and always push heavily against the milquetoast centrists, AIPAC, etc., but after the primaries — I know which party is primarily responsible for the deaths of Alex Pretti and Renee Good.
Edit: By the way, Trump’s withdrawal of USAID has led to more than half a million deaths globally in just a year’s time and rising, dwarfing even the Palestinian and Ukrainian genocides.
Magician Jill Stein who magically appears right before an election, siphons votes, then magically disappears again after the election?
Yeah, the news media only pays attention to the Green Party during presidential elections. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t doing anything in between elections.
Besides, nobody holds this standard to Democrats. What’s Kamala Harris doing? I mean, besides hawking a book about how she lost. Why didn’t I ever see her at any Black Lives Matter protests? Or any protests? Jill Stein goes to protests all the time.
The same Jill Stein that accumulated a MASSIVE 0.5% of the total votes cast in 2024, proving she never had the slightest chance in hell of winning?
Nobody has a chance of winning if you don’t vote for them.
The real problem is that you see American lives in general and your life in particular as worth more than the lives of the countless people who have died as a direct result of our foreign policy under both parties, and I don’t. You’re fine with genocide as long as you and yours are safe and happy, I’m not.
Sounds like a shithole country. In a normal democracy, you’re allowed more options and you can spoil your ballot if you wanna send a message. It’s your right.
But what about if we compare AOC and Fetteman? Are they both the same? You see, it’s easy to manufacture the outcome of your point when you only allow examples that lend to it. Broaden the range even a little and it falls apart.
Imagine being stupid enough to think both parties are actually the same in spite of literally all the public evidence of proposed legislation and votes. You’d have to be really fucking stupid or just acting in bad faith to promote that idea.
literally all the public evidence of proposed legislation and votes
Hey, can you bring up the confirmation vote for Marco Rubio at Secretary of State? How about the Protect College Sports Act of 2026?
No shortage of broad bipartisan agreement on legislation and executive action. Even the shit stiff. Dem Senators were huge fans of the Iran War when it started, for instance. There’s wide support for Israeli war crimes, Ukraine weapons sales, and regime change in Latin America and East Asia. Even when it comes to immigration, it’s damned hard to find a sitting Democrat who wants to stop ICE agents from kidnapping and torturing people.
You’ve got a smattering of wedge issues that divide the parties. But when push comes to shove… well… Look at what Gavin Newsom has vetoed recently.
Nice cherry picking that more or less proves my point. So let’s pretend you aren’t here in bad faith even though you’re a known quantity, how does your solution of letting the republicans win benefit the people?
And none of them ever reply when you point out that their solution is to just let republicans win, because they don’t actually care about any people anywhere they just want society to collapse because they’re profoundly ignorant. They’re the ideological opposite but the intellectual equivalent of libertarians. Fuckin tankies.
So the reality is in almost every district in the united states the choice is democratic or republican, and if you’re not voting for the democratic you’re voting for the republican. You all ignore this fundamental reality which means you saying don’t vote for dems means explicitly let the republicans win ergo that is your default solution unless you’re offering another actually realistically plausible one. But you’re not. You’re all just trying to get republicans elected.
These are people who don’t bother perusing the voting history of both parties, which draws an unbelievably clear line between the parties.
These are people that don’t bother looking at the stats to know that things are always economically better under Dems.
These are people who apparently don’t have eyes or ears because anyone that has lived through periods of both parties having control knows that things are always more stable, less threatening under Dems.
The two parties are so not the same that brain damage is the only excuse for believing they are.
If both parties are the same then why is one party trying to do every possible thing to make it difficult for certain groups of legal US citizens to simply vote, let alone challenge every single outcome where they don’t win?
Well see this guy I know says that its better to not vote because then youre playing into their hand and you should just be an individual, because all campaigns are just a money funnel to see who can make the most money, and the government creates monopolies with corporations so we need to get rid of government and instate a king.
Actual words I heard today. Jfc people be dumb.
This hurts my brain. Ouch. Owie. Ow.
Yeah its hard to argue with someone that dumb. There are no words.
to sum up:
one party is bad
the other party is worse.
Both parties are representatives of the capitalist class. They differ in terms of which wings of the capitalist class they are bought by, not which workers they support, because neither supports workers. A whole new system is necessary, a socialist one, and neither party will bring that.
So when are you going to start the revolution?
It won’t happen during the election, that is for sure.
Revolutions happen when there is a mass revolutionary socialist party, mass class consciousness, and a crisis in the capitalist system that leaves the capitalist class too weak to defend itself. You don’t just start a revolution, you prepare for one by making the first two prerequisites as developed as possible. This creates the actuality of revolution. Election time or not, I will still be advocating for revolution.
Because it matters for them to win, their ego don’t allow otherwise.
They also thought they are the masters when they are happily serving the real masters.
Checks out. Fuck off
They’re right, cry about it
Lol. Eventually you’re going to need to create a new account not on .ml if you want people to even read your comments before downvoting. You guys have destroyed your credibility.
Your reactionary responses to being corrected on your delusional beliefs about the US empire are not my fault or my problem, I’m just gonna keep on being right about shit and whoever wants to listen can do so
Nah, I’m alright. Go back to your masters to give you a treat for attempting to sow discord.
You clearly aren’t alright, and you’re actively simping for one of the two entrenched political parties. Delusional, pure projection.
lol, the person advocating that we can’t be disloyal to our corporate masters is saying that someone else is just following their masters orders.
Can Libs try to be a bit more subtle about their projections?
Both parties lead to the same policy outcomes.
But individuals within the respective parties reap extraordinary benefits when they are in control of the contracting process for these policies.
The corrupt system is not less cut throat because multiple people are trying to exploit it.
The system is corrupt, not everyone involved is corrupt or has been corrupted. I do my best to learn who isn’t corrupt, but we live in this system and not participating in it only hurts me.
The system isn’t corrupt, it’s working for the same group it always has: the capitalist class. There has never been a point that this has not been true. Perhaps for a short period during reconstruction, before that got taken over and destroyed.
Sort of the bitch of a corrupt system. You don’t need everyone to be on the take for the system to be hopelessly spoiled.
That doesn’t keep them out of office
Disagree.
There is a point I agree about the rest though. Jeffries needs to get the boot. I think Chuck’s ready to retire.
It’s easy on the mind to falsely equate the two parties but there’s a reason there aren’t El-Sayeds, Tlaibs, Sanders, AOCs, Mamdanis, and Talaricos within the Republican coalition but exist in Dem circles. There’s a reason Dems end more wars than they start. There’s a reason Dems brought around Same-sex marriage. There’s a reason a Dem president worked hard to get the JCPOA passed but a Republican one undermined it.
Both sides are thus far from the same. Democrats are undeniably better. This is a false equivalence fallacy.
For the record, I have this user tagged as supporting Jill Stein in 2024, pushing a spoiler vote that only ever enables Republicans.
I don’t have them tagged. I just have their username memorized from how many times I’ve downvoted them.
Democrats are objectively better. And in a system where only two parties have the clout to win, especially on a federal level, it is objectively smarter to vote for the objectively better one.
I have voted for Jill Stein three times now. If you want me to vote for the Democratic candidate, the solution is simple: get them to adopt Stein’s platform.
I don’t have any particular loyalty to Stein or even to the Green Party in general. Politics isn’t a team sport for me. All I care about is policy.
After that, it’s pretty clear:
Being better is all that matters come November general election, given the nature of a binary-choice election. If you want different parties, then one must first change the rules from within and abolish FPTP that yields mathematical convergence to two-party rule.
If you are unfamiliar with the Spoiler Effect, I encourage you to read up on it because what you’re doing is actually enabling fascist Republicans to win, since I assume these are your top issues.
If not, please tell me what your top 3-5 issues and core values are and I’d be happy to discuss.
I have my gripes with Democrats and always push heavily against the milquetoast centrists, AIPAC, etc., but after the primaries — I know which party is primarily responsible for the deaths of Alex Pretti and Renee Good.
Edit: By the way, Trump’s withdrawal of USAID has led to more than half a million deaths globally in just a year’s time and rising, dwarfing even the Palestinian and Ukrainian genocides.
I supported Sanders during the 2016 and 2020 primaries. He did not win.
Why didn’t he? Did he lack mass appeal and support amongst the working class?
Do you think The Party regrets their decision to cheat him out of the presidency?
I did too.
I still voted for Hillary, Joe, and Kamala post-Primaries (all significantly better than Trump and Republicans).
(That’s also why Sanders supported and voted for all three, too!)
Sometimes you don’t win.
Fun fact: Wil Smith does not actually say "Welcome to Erf" in Independence Day.
He says “Earth”. He enunciates. People remember it differently because of…Mandela Effect? Racism? Memes? Some combination?
“Best we can do is bomb a bunch of kids in the middle east, fund ICE, and back a genocide”
Jill Stein?
Magician Jill Stein who magically appears right before an election, siphons votes, then magically disappears again after the election?
The same Jill Stein that accumulated a MASSIVE 0.5% of the total votes cast in 2024, proving she never had the slightest chance in hell of winning?
Did you poop on your vote before flushing it?
she earns votes. she doesn’t siphon them.
Yeah, the news media only pays attention to the Green Party during presidential elections. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t doing anything in between elections.
Besides, nobody holds this standard to Democrats. What’s Kamala Harris doing? I mean, besides hawking a book about how she lost. Why didn’t I ever see her at any Black Lives Matter protests? Or any protests? Jill Stein goes to protests all the time.
Nobody has a chance of winning if you don’t vote for them.
Jill Stein who’s famously on Putin’s payroll and exists fully as a spoiler? You’re a republican with extra steps.
there was a senate investigation that found that there was no evidence she took any money from russia. she speaks out against russia and republicans.
Hey look, more baseless accusations against someone who doesn’t want to bomb kids, and who wants to stop the people who support ICE! Imagine that!
You uncritically repeat debunked fox news propaganda. You work for MAGA.
Can you point out where I did that? Becaues I’m pretty confident that you can’t.
I love how you get to blatently lie, with no supporting data, but then say I work for MAGA. Big brain thinking, right here
“v0te Blüē N0 MaTT3r whö” 🦉
All they care about is their team winning and get mad at anyone who questions their party facilitating a fkn genocide.
So you just do not care about trans and other LGBTQ people?
I’m trans and I also hate the Dems for constantly throwing us under the bus, find a new justification for your bullshit
Lol. If you’re trans and you don’t see the value of electing Dems over Republicans then education is your problem.
The real problem is that you see American lives in general and your life in particular as worth more than the lives of the countless people who have died as a direct result of our foreign policy under both parties, and I don’t. You’re fine with genocide as long as you and yours are safe and happy, I’m not.
Maybe you’re just a patronising arsehole.
T in lgbt is for the trans folks.
I care about the fact that trans people are shoved into needless wars for the sake of billionaires and corporations.
I care about all the trans people slaughtered in Gaza. Something you obviously don’t seem to find repulsive.
To mirror your own tone and attitude, “So you don’t care about non-white trans and other LGBT+ people?”
Votes are important in those countries as well. Especially for trans people.
But the votes in the US aren’t about trans people in other countries. They are about trans people in the US.
Which you don’t care about since you keep only bringing up the genocide in Gaza.
Also, I said “and other LGBTQ” which implies trans are part of them.
Even though USA is murdering and bombing them…
Even though they don’t get to vote in the US. They only get to die because of getting bombed by the US.
You need to pick a lane and figure out wtf you’re even trying to say.
So you don’t care about USian bomb murdering the trans people… You don’t care about trans people unless they’re USian.
You’re a confused kid. A bigoted, self centred confused kid who is okay with genocide as long as the victims are in far away lands and not white.
It’s a binary system whether you like it or not. Democrats or Republicans will dictate your life. Of course vote blue no matter who, you silly twat.
Sounds like a shithole country. In a normal democracy, you’re allowed more options and you can spoil your ballot if you wanna send a message. It’s your right.
This bOtH siDeS comment was brought to to by the same willful ignorance that brought you the 2024 election winner.
If you think John Fetterman and Susan Collins are on opposite sides, why do they agree on so many votes?
Personally, I think they’re both republicans.
But what about if we compare AOC and Fetteman? Are they both the same? You see, it’s easy to manufacture the outcome of your point when you only allow examples that lend to it. Broaden the range even a little and it falls apart.
Like your entire ideology.
But they aren’t both Republicans.
But they are. Or do you think a letter next to your name defines who you are?
I think the party that nominated you and the party you caucus with define your membership in that party.
After that, you might as well say Aaron Judge isn’t a Yankee because you don’t like his personality.
I think you don’t understand how this works.
They’re right, cry about it
Imagine being stupid enough to think both parties are actually the same in spite of literally all the public evidence of proposed legislation and votes. You’d have to be really fucking stupid or just acting in bad faith to promote that idea.
Yeah, crazy, why would people think that?
Hey, can you bring up the confirmation vote for Marco Rubio at Secretary of State? How about the Protect College Sports Act of 2026?
No shortage of broad bipartisan agreement on legislation and executive action. Even the shit stiff. Dem Senators were huge fans of the Iran War when it started, for instance. There’s wide support for Israeli war crimes, Ukraine weapons sales, and regime change in Latin America and East Asia. Even when it comes to immigration, it’s damned hard to find a sitting Democrat who wants to stop ICE agents from kidnapping and torturing people.
You’ve got a smattering of wedge issues that divide the parties. But when push comes to shove… well… Look at what Gavin Newsom has vetoed recently.
Nice cherry picking that more or less proves my point. So let’s pretend you aren’t here in bad faith even though you’re a known quantity, how does your solution of letting the republicans win benefit the people?
It doesn’t. They just like whining. They’ve been whining as long as I’ve been on Lemmy.
And none of them ever reply when you point out that their solution is to just let republicans win, because they don’t actually care about any people anywhere they just want society to collapse because they’re profoundly ignorant. They’re the ideological opposite but the intellectual equivalent of libertarians. Fuckin tankies.
It’s so bizarre to see people insist “let Republicans win” is something anyone is suggesting.
You don’t have control over 150M voters. You aren’t single-handedly deciding whether a Republican or a Democrat wins.
Fucking delusional to insist a single anonymous asshole on the Internet created the national political landscape by way of bad vibes.
So the reality is in almost every district in the united states the choice is democratic or republican, and if you’re not voting for the democratic you’re voting for the republican. You all ignore this fundamental reality which means you saying don’t vote for dems means explicitly let the republicans win ergo that is your default solution unless you’re offering another actually realistically plausible one. But you’re not. You’re all just trying to get republicans elected.
Right?
These are people who don’t bother perusing the voting history of both parties, which draws an unbelievably clear line between the parties.
These are people that don’t bother looking at the stats to know that things are always economically better under Dems.
These are people who apparently don’t have eyes or ears because anyone that has lived through periods of both parties having control knows that things are always more stable, less threatening under Dems.
The two parties are so not the same that brain damage is the only excuse for believing they are.