• bleph@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    Ok…so because the New Deal didn’t… overthrow capitalism forever… therefore working within the system is pointless?

        • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          Social democracies aren’t socialism. They have unions, co-ops, but they don’t own the means of production. They are capitalism with heavy regulation and strong social policies. And they are already regressing. If we were a more socially democratic, my opinion might be different, But, historically, the reality that capitalism decays into fascism would still be true.

          • bleph@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Why do you assume that socialist systems won’t also experience a gravitational pull towards fascism? In my opinion that’s universal across all political systems. Also aren’t all extant “state owns the means of production” counties quite fascist?

            • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              1 year ago

              Wow, you’re really going there. I agree with your thinking. I think of it this way. Would I rather deal with climate change under a capitalist/fascist dictatorship with overconsumption and excess growth. Or would I rather deal with climate change under a tankie dictatorship with a planned economy that limits consumption and growth. I’ll pick the Marxist Leninist one. I’d rather it be an anarcho communist one. But with multiple factions vying for power and trying to control huge populations, that may not be possible.

              • bleph@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                1 year ago

                So, do we agree that climate policy has been mixed-bag both in “The West” and China? (Everybody is touting their green tech while still building new fossil fuel extraction and plants)

                Even if you were sure a tankie government would deliver better on climate change, what are the odds that “the revolution” leads to a full fascist government instead?

                Surely the Right outguns us 10 to 1?

                • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  India has said they won’t stop developing until they have the same standard of living as the west. I’m willing to live under fascism if my kids can survive on this planet. That’s not even a difficult choice.

                  • bleph@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Yeah, the international politics of climate are absolute shit. I think we have to survive and resist this worldwide lurch rightwards before that will change.

        • MaungaHikoi@lemmy.nz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          At least read what he posted before replying. We don’t need to build another reddit where people just rage at each other on behalf of their team.

          • bleph@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            For the record, when I posted that reply the parent only read “yes 🙌”

            I was saltier than I would like to be in retrospect though, I cut it out of a comment.