Executive orders are not laws. As you’ve seen, his bullshit orders keep getting shot down in court. You can’t just DECLARE new laws and procedures, that’s not how it works.
This ruling doesn’t change the existing laws at all, but they’re trying to change the procedures to the laws. This ruling doesn’t do that, but it makes it harder for courts to reject arguments that align with that bullshit, that’s it.
Think you’re downplaying it a bit. They’ve been getting blocked due to injunctions. 23 so far. Now they’re not possible anymore. States will selectively enforce the constitution.
It essentially means states have to independently fight and allocate resources. It’s not the end of the road. Red state residents may be screwed but it depends on how cowardly their red governors are. Red states can’t hide behind national injunctions anymore. The state residents will be forced to harangue their state govt into fighting something in court. It may hurt the republicans in the end as they’re forcing red state governors to either: look weak to their own people or insult trump by having state AGs fight unconstitutional laws.
Sir 48% of voters approve of trumps actions so far. Those red state AGs will be championed for selectively applying the constitution as Trump sees fit. I’d expect prayer in schools and banning of protest will be the first to go.
That’s not what the ruling said, first of all. The ruling said that the 28 states who DID NOT sue won’t be included in the injunctions that are being put in place, meaning these asshats took issue with the lower court issuing a nationwide injunction. Any individuals or groups that sue will still be included in the injunction set to go into effect in 30 days.
Stupid, fuck yes. Overstepping, yup. It is not a ban on lower courts issuing injunctions full stop as you’ve just said.
Yeah technically but still makes it a lot harder, more expensive, and longer; especially for the unlucky ones in red states who now have unequal access to justice. Giving them plenty of time to do whatever the f they want. Already bumrushing people at breakneck speed on the streets and shipping them off to random countries what do you reckon they’ll manage in their remaining 3.5+ years.
The ruling only applies to the nationwide injunction that was issued on this order. As I said in my other comment, any individuals can sign onto this simply by asking. There will be a massive flood of options to do this showing up in Monday, I guarantee, so I’m not worried about that.
It wasn’t a ruling on nationwide injunctions in general, it wasn’t a legal ruling saying that federal judges cannot do this in the future, and it wasn’t an exclusion of anybody from signing on to this.
As far as the next few years…honestly, we just need to make it to midterms. That’s what I’m focused on and worried about. The GOP is already eating themselves alive and fracturing in a million pieces just like his first term, and at record speed. Yeah, shit feels kind of bleak, but people need to think more strategically and manage out how we GET to the midterms without shit getting worse or escalating. That’s the important bit.
Those articles say it does apply to nationwide injunctions in general so Wdym?
The court decided that nationwide injunctions, or court orders that prevent the government from enforcing a specific law or policy, are unconstitutional.
You’re assuming the midterms will save you but that assumes he won the election fairly. Which he didn’t based on the suppression tactics he down alone; before you get to the dodgy voting patterns and gerrymandering.
Supreme Court opinions are only scoped to the argument brought to the court. This one was about many states using over the Birthright Citizenship.
They did not make any sort of ruling about ALL federal court injunctions. That would cripple their own court and the federal court system with immediate filings.
Even if the courts eventually shoot down his bullshit orders eventually, they’re not allowed to stop him from enforcing them until the case is over, except against the specific plaintiffs in their court.
So assuming that his birthright citizenship order is defeated, as soon as the SCOTUS 30-day pause is up, he can start stripping people of citizenship and deporting them right away. If that order is overturned? Then he’ll have to deal with whatever the court says he needs to do, but he’ll still have destroyed a bunch of people’s lives in the process
They don’t need to stop them, because they are unconstituit. You can’t make up some bullshit that is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and win in court. Any half-assed lawyer can just file the paperwork to get this shit shut down, but that’s really the cruz here in that they are expecting people to not have the access to legal services to make it happen in the event they are challenged.
There will be more specific cases about this specific thing immediately being heard by the lower courts, they’ll rule against Trump, and this will end up in the Supreme Court again in the next session, no doubt on that.
This is a stalling tactic by Trump’s psychos to try and make it look they are able to bend the Constitution to their service, which will not happen because…it’s unconstitutional.
You can’t make up some bullshit that is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and win in court.
Sadly, this is not exactly accurate. See:
civil asset forfeiture (blatantly violated the literal wording and any good faith interpretation of the 4th and 6th Amendments)
qualified immunity (was literally invented with no basis in existing law, violates the wording of the law as passed, which was maliciously transcribed to omit a clause explicitly banning immunity, and violates the 7th Amendment right to a jury trial for civil damages exceeding $20)
These are awful things, but again, you yourself mention “good faith interpretation”. This is a procedural problem with lawmaking in general that if you don’t specifically have an action codified in law that says “you cannot do this”, people will find ways to work around it. This is the case with both of the things you’ve mentioned, unfortunately.
Now, if the existing laws specifically had mentioned these things are illegal AND were in the constitution, and then somebody tried to enact them, thats a different story.
Instead these things exist because of bad faith interpretation of laws, and need to to be routed out by very specific wording or rulings.
It literally is. He acted through executive orders alone, and .managed to wipe out billions in debt, in several waves. Unfortunately though, those orders were eventually blocked by Republicans, who challenged them in court…but not before millions of Americans had their debts erased.
But now that he has put an order out ending Birthright Citizenship and the SCOTUS ruled that nationwide injunctions aren’t applicable, can’t there now be a patchwork of enforcement where red regions will not honor birthright citizenship while blue regions do?
It seems like in the short term, there is going to be a lot of carnage and damage because this unconstitutional executive order will be followed by his loyalists.
He can put out an order requiring the sky to be green. It’s just words, that’s the point. The only thing he can affect with an EO are things where his sycophants can enable it to the extent they are involved in the executive branch. NOT the Judicial Branch. The judges who order and enforce the laws can’t just ignore the constitution. Birthright Citizenship is in the constitution.
What the SCOTUS ruling here adds is some dumbshit to make the process more stupid than it needs to be for people without legal status it seems, but it is not a change to the law, or enforcement. That needs to be understood.
All it’s going to take is a specifically angled case to ask the question “Is birthright Citizenship in the constitution? Oh, it is? Well then it’s constitutional”
Another court case that isn’t about the procedural nature of obtaining said documentation or status will shut this shit down in a heartbeat, but as others have noted, the legal process of getting it there takes longer than most would like.
The judges who order and enforce the laws can’t just ignore the constitution. Birthright Citizenship is in the constitution.
Again, I’m really sorry to burst you bubble but do think that understanding the reality of our situation and tearing down the illusions is important.
The Judicial is charged with interpreting the law and arbitrarion. Not enforcement. That’s on the Executive branch.
The US Constitution has been increasingly ignored in both the Judicial and Executive branches since about the 60s. For example, the SCOTUS invented “qualified immunity” in 1967 to allow the Executive branch to effectively ignite constitutional rights. Their fuckery means that “it literally says it in the US Constitution” is insufficient to show evidence harm from being deprived of constitutional rights. Effectively, an identical case must have been tried, which makes it nearly impossible (because of the circular dependency).
You misunderstand this. The Executive is bound to ensure that laws are enforced, but not tasked or powered to do so directly. Congress controls the purse and lawmaking, and the constitution is very clear that President must ENSURE what Congress passes is enforced. That’s extremely clear in Article ii Section iii, and is referred to as the “Take Care Clause”.
Sure, this is not untrue, but as we’ve seen over and over again, if ruling against the constitution, you always create a dead end. So they’ve just passed something stupid that is technically an interpretation in its most idiotically simple way, but they’ve then created a disaster on the other side of the legal process. It can’t work both ways. Unless they gain control over every judge and jurisdiction to exactly as Trump says, they won’t have the ability to control jack shit in this sense. Even after today’s ruling, the experts are already saying they’ve just opened the door to completely drown the courts and SCOTUS with challenges and really fuck over Trump because they’ve closed one door foolishly, and opened another to attack this bullshit from.
How does this stop him from using executive orders to do illegal things in the short term?
Executive orders are not laws. As you’ve seen, his bullshit orders keep getting shot down in court. You can’t just DECLARE new laws and procedures, that’s not how it works.
This ruling doesn’t change the existing laws at all, but they’re trying to change the procedures to the laws. This ruling doesn’t do that, but it makes it harder for courts to reject arguments that align with that bullshit, that’s it.
Think you’re downplaying it a bit. They’ve been getting blocked due to injunctions. 23 so far. Now they’re not possible anymore. States will selectively enforce the constitution.
It essentially means states have to independently fight and allocate resources. It’s not the end of the road. Red state residents may be screwed but it depends on how cowardly their red governors are. Red states can’t hide behind national injunctions anymore. The state residents will be forced to harangue their state govt into fighting something in court. It may hurt the republicans in the end as they’re forcing red state governors to either: look weak to their own people or insult trump by having state AGs fight unconstitutional laws.
Sir 48% of voters approve of trumps actions so far. Those red state AGs will be championed for selectively applying the constitution as Trump sees fit. I’d expect prayer in schools and banning of protest will be the first to go.
That’s not what the ruling said, first of all. The ruling said that the 28 states who DID NOT sue won’t be included in the injunctions that are being put in place, meaning these asshats took issue with the lower court issuing a nationwide injunction. Any individuals or groups that sue will still be included in the injunction set to go into effect in 30 days.
Stupid, fuck yes. Overstepping, yup. It is not a ban on lower courts issuing injunctions full stop as you’ve just said.
Yeah technically but still makes it a lot harder, more expensive, and longer; especially for the unlucky ones in red states who now have unequal access to justice. Giving them plenty of time to do whatever the f they want. Already bumrushing people at breakneck speed on the streets and shipping them off to random countries what do you reckon they’ll manage in their remaining 3.5+ years.
The ruling only applies to the nationwide injunction that was issued on this order. As I said in my other comment, any individuals can sign onto this simply by asking. There will be a massive flood of options to do this showing up in Monday, I guarantee, so I’m not worried about that.
It wasn’t a ruling on nationwide injunctions in general, it wasn’t a legal ruling saying that federal judges cannot do this in the future, and it wasn’t an exclusion of anybody from signing on to this.
As far as the next few years…honestly, we just need to make it to midterms. That’s what I’m focused on and worried about. The GOP is already eating themselves alive and fracturing in a million pieces just like his first term, and at record speed. Yeah, shit feels kind of bleak, but people need to think more strategically and manage out how we GET to the midterms without shit getting worse or escalating. That’s the important bit.
Edit: here’s a very smart and measured legal analyst that spells it out succinctly: https://www.rawstory.com/msnbc-2672488166/
Those articles say it does apply to nationwide injunctions in general so Wdym?
You’re assuming the midterms will save you but that assumes he won the election fairly. Which he didn’t based on the suppression tactics he down alone; before you get to the dodgy voting patterns and gerrymandering.
It’s about this specific junction. Not all.
Supreme Court opinions are only scoped to the argument brought to the court. This one was about many states using over the Birthright Citizenship.
They did not make any sort of ruling about ALL federal court injunctions. That would cripple their own court and the federal court system with immediate filings.
It affects all nationwide injunctions not just this one.
This ruling changes when and how lower courts can issue nationwide injunctions for any future case.
Courts can still block federal policies - but now they must limit injunctions to the actual plaintiffs or a certified class.
Even if the courts eventually shoot down his bullshit orders eventually, they’re not allowed to stop him from enforcing them until the case is over, except against the specific plaintiffs in their court.
So assuming that his birthright citizenship order is defeated, as soon as the SCOTUS 30-day pause is up, he can start stripping people of citizenship and deporting them right away. If that order is overturned? Then he’ll have to deal with whatever the court says he needs to do, but he’ll still have destroyed a bunch of people’s lives in the process
They don’t need to stop them, because they are unconstituit. You can’t make up some bullshit that is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and win in court. Any half-assed lawyer can just file the paperwork to get this shit shut down, but that’s really the cruz here in that they are expecting people to not have the access to legal services to make it happen in the event they are challenged.
There will be more specific cases about this specific thing immediately being heard by the lower courts, they’ll rule against Trump, and this will end up in the Supreme Court again in the next session, no doubt on that.
This is a stalling tactic by Trump’s psychos to try and make it look they are able to bend the Constitution to their service, which will not happen because…it’s unconstitutional.
Sadly, this is not exactly accurate. See:
These are awful things, but again, you yourself mention “good faith interpretation”. This is a procedural problem with lawmaking in general that if you don’t specifically have an action codified in law that says “you cannot do this”, people will find ways to work around it. This is the case with both of the things you’ve mentioned, unfortunately.
Now, if the existing laws specifically had mentioned these things are illegal AND were in the constitution, and then somebody tried to enact them, thats a different story.
Instead these things exist because of bad faith interpretation of laws, and need to to be routed out by very specific wording or rulings.
This is exactly how Biden managed to forgive millions of people’s student loan debts, before Republicans had the chance to stop him in court.
What? No.
It literally is. He acted through executive orders alone, and .managed to wipe out billions in debt, in several waves. Unfortunately though, those orders were eventually blocked by Republicans, who challenged them in court…but not before millions of Americans had their debts erased.
I thought you were saying Biden was ignoring injunctions to do it.
But now that he has put an order out ending Birthright Citizenship and the SCOTUS ruled that nationwide injunctions aren’t applicable, can’t there now be a patchwork of enforcement where red regions will not honor birthright citizenship while blue regions do?
It seems like in the short term, there is going to be a lot of carnage and damage because this unconstitutional executive order will be followed by his loyalists.
He can put out an order requiring the sky to be green. It’s just words, that’s the point. The only thing he can affect with an EO are things where his sycophants can enable it to the extent they are involved in the executive branch. NOT the Judicial Branch. The judges who order and enforce the laws can’t just ignore the constitution. Birthright Citizenship is in the constitution.
What the SCOTUS ruling here adds is some dumbshit to make the process more stupid than it needs to be for people without legal status it seems, but it is not a change to the law, or enforcement. That needs to be understood.
All it’s going to take is a specifically angled case to ask the question “Is birthright Citizenship in the constitution? Oh, it is? Well then it’s constitutional”
Another court case that isn’t about the procedural nature of obtaining said documentation or status will shut this shit down in a heartbeat, but as others have noted, the legal process of getting it there takes longer than most would like.
Again, I’m really sorry to burst you bubble but do think that understanding the reality of our situation and tearing down the illusions is important.
You misunderstand this. The Executive is bound to ensure that laws are enforced, but not tasked or powered to do so directly. Congress controls the purse and lawmaking, and the constitution is very clear that President must ENSURE what Congress passes is enforced. That’s extremely clear in Article ii Section iii, and is referred to as the “Take Care Clause”.
Sure, this is not untrue, but as we’ve seen over and over again, if ruling against the constitution, you always create a dead end. So they’ve just passed something stupid that is technically an interpretation in its most idiotically simple way, but they’ve then created a disaster on the other side of the legal process. It can’t work both ways. Unless they gain control over every judge and jurisdiction to exactly as Trump says, they won’t have the ability to control jack shit in this sense. Even after today’s ruling, the experts are already saying they’ve just opened the door to completely drown the courts and SCOTUS with challenges and really fuck over Trump because they’ve closed one door foolishly, and opened another to attack this bullshit from.