- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmygrad.ml
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Conveniently starts in the 80s, after they supported the Khmer Rouge and invaded Vietnam. I think this is important to remember, especially since it shows that China was at their worst when they were on the same side as the US
Yeah also, adding to this, supporting the Pakistan military during the Bangladesh liberation war and threatening India with invasion if they entered east pakistan to stop the genocide. Like, lotta awful foreign policy choices during the cold war as a function of the sino-soviet split which only matter less now because there’s no soviet side anymore.
Honestly, the invasion of Vietnam and support of Khmer Rouge should be included… along with America’s support for the same. It then shows China’s self-crit and divergence in policy from the US.
I think the “L” needs to be taken since if nothing else it really shows the superiority of China’s FP – they haven’t bungled like that since the end of the Soviet Union.
It then shows China’s self-crit and divergence in policy from the US.
Did they self-crit? I know there’s an interview where deng, regarding supporting pol pot, said something like “well we didn’t know what was going on there but we had to fight vietnamese (soviet) hegemony throughout southeast asia”, but idk if the at the time or current chinese foreign ministry would say they did anything wrong or would do anything different regarding the broader sino-soviet proxy-wars because, to them, their most threatening enemy was the USSR (right next to them) not the US and their strategy worked. Though obviously they behave much differently nowadays
They’ve diverged from US policy in part because their common enemy defeated itself before china really re-approached it in a internationalist manner (that is in taking joint action with the ussr), and now china itself is the enemy.
Totally fair I might be being too generous here. It might just be material conditions changed. I would hope they’d disavow that shit, but I’ll admit I’m not read on Chinese perspectives on these choices.
Conveniently starts in the 80s
The 80’s was 40 years ago; if it conveniently started like five or ten years ago you’d have a point, but 40 years is a gigantic period of time to have no wars. How long of a period do you require? 100?
The reason we can criticize our own leadership is because we never stopped; we can’t seriously claim we’re not making the mistakes of the past while continuing to do them non-stop up to the present day. Even if the person who made the pic included China’s Vietnam war era, the picture would still be a damning indictment for that gigantic gap of no wars.
True! I think the overall point made by the OP meme remains valid, even with the invasion of vietnam. In the US at least, we have a huge problem that most people know absolutely nothing about Chinese history (the average hexbear knows way more). For that reason, I think broadening discussion of chinese history is almost always a good thing to do. I’m still largely ignorant, too so it’s a good way for me to learn. It’s also a good way to hone agitprop and be prepared for retorts
Starting it in the 1970s would show one war at the beginning for the Chinese heads of state and then nothing. In a way that would be more of a contrast, because it wouldn’t just look like a different category where “they just don’t have wars there”.
China didn’t have a president during the 1979 invasion of Vietnam. The office was unoccupied between 1975 and 1982.
I guess a better image would show how China often doesn’t care about who they sell guns and equipment to. They’ve armed both sides of the Kashmir conflict and have sold guns to Israel for decades. Not great. But they haven’t had any formal military conflicts other than occasional intelligence gathering/trading since the 1970s.
China didn’t have a president during the 1979 invasion of Vietnam. The office was unoccupied between 1975 and 1982.
The PLA didn’t fully pull out of Vietnam until the 90s
Yeah, the other problem with the graphic is that the president of China isn’t 1:1 with the president of the US. Like, the president isn’t necessarily the commander in chief of the PLA. Not that I’ll pretend to know the ins and outs of who was chairman of the party, president, chairman of the military commision, and who had what de jure power and who had what de facto power for each period in PRC history. (but I’ll definitely listen if someone has knowledge to drop!) I know there’s the model of looking at the different generations of leadership that can be useful. Excuse the wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_Chinese_leadership
China didn’t have a president during the 1979 invasion of Vietnam
Yeah but Deng was running the show so the L is his, he was the one who contacted Jimmy Carter to tell him he was gonna do it too, Carter advised him not to but said the US wouldn’t raise a stink.
I remember reading how he made it so the position he occupied had a bunch of powers concentrated in it so that he was for all intents and purposes the leader of the CPC.
also its ignoring a few border skirmishers between china and india and a few against vietnam
This is kind of a mess.
- No one died in the Gulf of Sidra Encounter, and we’re calling it a “war”? By that metric China’s border skirmishes with India should be listed here
- China was directly involved in Operation Ocean Shield, sending ships and coordinating with NATO, but it’s only listed for the US
- If we’re including support to genocidal and belligerent states as complicity in wars, China has been sending arms to the junta in Myanmar
First two points are valid. Third is not. “Junta” or not, Myanmar has a legitimate government and co-operating with them as they would with any other country’s government is absolutely in line with China’s policy of non-interference. Especially since China has a vested interest in maintaining stability in South East Asia, they are definitely not going to be sympathetic to western backed insurgencies. The deposed government before the junta was stacked full of NED graduates by the way. China would be absolutely stupid to actively support a return to power of western puppet compradors who would purposely block regional economic development and co-operation and turn Myanmar into another anti-China proxy instead.
It being in line with Chinese foreign policy goals doesn’t change the fact that the government they’re selling arms to is committing genocide. And irrespective of the moral issue, if we’re listing arming Israel and Ukraine as a war for this list we should be including arming Myanmar as one too
Then we should also note that previous to 2022 it was Israel selling Myanmar small arms. Their standard issue rifle is a licensed Galil.
Sure? But Israel isn’t in this comparison
If you are talking about the countries supplying Myanmar then Israel is absolutely part of that discussion.
China never killed a US civilian while the same cant be said for the US due to the uh cough accidental cough bombing of Chinas embassy in Yugoslavia
China never killed a US civilian
That’s cause the average Chinese person thinks libs are Western folklore; the internet is changing that (Chinese red note users getting surprised everything their government told them about America was true was hilarious)
China probably killed a few when they were cleaning up the CIA rings in the early 2010s
CIA spies aren’t civilians.
“Oh yeah well then explain covid (which also isn’t real but it’s actually not that bad if you get it it’s just like the flu but we should sanction China for releasing a bioweapon on the US). I hold a consistent worldview with no contradictions because capitalism is the best system ever made. Checkmate liberal!”
It’s not even full list for US presidents. Obama alone waged iirc 13 wars, though some were inherited from Bush and/or passed to Trump too.
Where the fuck is Operation Desert Fox under Bill Clinton?
I’d show this to the lib I work with but honestly? If the conflict happened before the 2000’s then it’s an old conflict, if it happened post 2000’s then there was a good reason for it (bUt ThE LeAdEr WaS a diCtAtOr).
Is there a better quality of this image?
it’s the best I got, but here are the wars listed out
US Presidents and Their Wars RONALD REAGAN Gulf of Sidra Encounter Multinational Intervention in Lebanon Invasion of Grenada Action in the Gulf of Sidra Bombing of Libya Tanker War Tobruk Encounter GEORGE H. W. BUSH Invasion of Panama Gulf War Iraq No-Fly Zone Enforcement Operations First U.S. Intervention in the Somali Civil War Bosnian War BILL CLINTON Intervention in Haiti Kosovo War Operation Infinite Reach GEORGE W. BUSH War in Afghanistan 2003 Invasion of Iraq Iraq War War in North-West Pakistan Second U.S. Intervention in the Somali Civil War BARACK OBAMA Operation Ocean Shield International Intervention in Libya Operation Observant Compass American-led Intervention in Iraq American-led Intervention in Syria Yemen Civil War American Intervention in Libya DONALD TRUMP More US Troops in Iraq US Troops Occupy Northern Syria Continued War in Afghanistan Increased Drone Killings in Africa Joe Biden US Troops in Northern Syria Armed Ukraine US Arms Israeli Bombing of Gaza
Y’all got any more of them there pixels? My old eyes aren’t what they used to be
best I can do :) https://lemmygrad.ml/post/8122113/6495367
Why even post a link to that comment? Do you think it’s a good example of… well, anything? It’s yet another ignorant lemoid lib pearl clutching about something they know nothing about while thinking they owned the tankies but actually just embarrassing themselves by revealing they have no idea what they’re talking about. There’s no insight or anything new, just making up a strawman ironically by accusing “tankies” of making a strawman. Are you directing us there to so we can point and laugh at how stupid the sinophobic liberals are? If that’s the case, then fair enough.
Hello,
Because I am nor from america nor China and I am curious about arguments both have. This is fascinating to see the propaganda war of two superpowers.
Regards.
Thanks that interesting.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
