• grandepequeno [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      3 days ago

      Yeah also, adding to this, supporting the Pakistan military during the Bangladesh liberation war and threatening India with invasion if they entered east pakistan to stop the genocide. Like, lotta awful foreign policy choices during the cold war as a function of the sino-soviet split which only matter less now because there’s no soviet side anymore.

    • ChestRockwell [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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      3 days ago

      Honestly, the invasion of Vietnam and support of Khmer Rouge should be included… along with America’s support for the same. It then shows China’s self-crit and divergence in policy from the US.

      I think the “L” needs to be taken since if nothing else it really shows the superiority of China’s FP – they haven’t bungled like that since the end of the Soviet Union.

      • grandepequeno [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        It then shows China’s self-crit and divergence in policy from the US.

        Did they self-crit? I know there’s an interview where deng, regarding supporting pol pot, said something like “well we didn’t know what was going on there but we had to fight vietnamese (soviet) hegemony throughout southeast asia”, but idk if the at the time or current chinese foreign ministry would say they did anything wrong or would do anything different regarding the broader sino-soviet proxy-wars because, to them, their most threatening enemy was the USSR (right next to them) not the US and their strategy worked. Though obviously they behave much differently nowadays

        They’ve diverged from US policy in part because their common enemy defeated itself before china really re-approached it in a internationalist manner (that is in taking joint action with the ussr), and now china itself is the enemy.

        • ChestRockwell [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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          3 days ago

          Totally fair I might be being too generous here. It might just be material conditions changed. I would hope they’d disavow that shit, but I’ll admit I’m not read on Chinese perspectives on these choices.

    • Evilsandwichman [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      3 days ago

      Conveniently starts in the 80s

      The 80’s was 40 years ago; if it conveniently started like five or ten years ago you’d have a point, but 40 years is a gigantic period of time to have no wars. How long of a period do you require? 100?

      The reason we can criticize our own leadership is because we never stopped; we can’t seriously claim we’re not making the mistakes of the past while continuing to do them non-stop up to the present day. Even if the person who made the pic included China’s Vietnam war era, the picture would still be a damning indictment for that gigantic gap of no wars.

      • TrustedFeline [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        True! I think the overall point made by the OP meme remains valid, even with the invasion of vietnam. In the US at least, we have a huge problem that most people know absolutely nothing about Chinese history (the average hexbear knows way more). For that reason, I think broadening discussion of chinese history is almost always a good thing to do. I’m still largely ignorant, too so it’s a good way for me to learn. It’s also a good way to hone agitprop and be prepared for retorts

      • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        Starting it in the 1970s would show one war at the beginning for the Chinese heads of state and then nothing. In a way that would be more of a contrast, because it wouldn’t just look like a different category where “they just don’t have wars there”.

    • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      3 days ago

      China didn’t have a president during the 1979 invasion of Vietnam. The office was unoccupied between 1975 and 1982.

      I guess a better image would show how China often doesn’t care about who they sell guns and equipment to. They’ve armed both sides of the Kashmir conflict and have sold guns to Israel for decades. Not great. But they haven’t had any formal military conflicts other than occasional intelligence gathering/trading since the 1970s.

      • dannoffs [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        China didn’t have a president during the 1979 invasion of Vietnam. The office was unoccupied between 1975 and 1982.

        The PLA didn’t fully pull out of Vietnam until the 90s

      • TrustedFeline [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        Yeah, the other problem with the graphic is that the president of China isn’t 1:1 with the president of the US. Like, the president isn’t necessarily the commander in chief of the PLA. Not that I’ll pretend to know the ins and outs of who was chairman of the party, president, chairman of the military commision, and who had what de jure power and who had what de facto power for each period in PRC history. (but I’ll definitely listen if someone has knowledge to drop!) I know there’s the model of looking at the different generations of leadership that can be useful. Excuse the wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_Chinese_leadership

      • grandepequeno [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        China didn’t have a president during the 1979 invasion of Vietnam

        Yeah but Deng was running the show so the L is his, he was the one who contacted Jimmy Carter to tell him he was gonna do it too, Carter advised him not to but said the US wouldn’t raise a stink.

        I remember reading how he made it so the position he occupied had a bunch of powers concentrated in it so that he was for all intents and purposes the leader of the CPC.

  • RION [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    3 days ago

    This is kind of a mess.

    • No one died in the Gulf of Sidra Encounter, and we’re calling it a “war”? By that metric China’s border skirmishes with India should be listed here
    • China was directly involved in Operation Ocean Shield, sending ships and coordinating with NATO, but it’s only listed for the US
    • If we’re including support to genocidal and belligerent states as complicity in wars, China has been sending arms to the junta in Myanmar
    • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
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      First two points are valid. Third is not. “Junta” or not, Myanmar has a legitimate government and co-operating with them as they would with any other country’s government is absolutely in line with China’s policy of non-interference. Especially since China has a vested interest in maintaining stability in South East Asia, they are definitely not going to be sympathetic to western backed insurgencies. The deposed government before the junta was stacked full of NED graduates by the way. China would be absolutely stupid to actively support a return to power of western puppet compradors who would purposely block regional economic development and co-operation and turn Myanmar into another anti-China proxy instead.

      • RION [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        It being in line with Chinese foreign policy goals doesn’t change the fact that the government they’re selling arms to is committing genocide. And irrespective of the moral issue, if we’re listing arming Israel and Ukraine as a war for this list we should be including arming Myanmar as one too

    • Evilsandwichman [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      3 days ago

      China never killed a US civilian

      That’s cause the average Chinese person thinks libs are Western folklore; the internet is changing that (Chinese red note users getting surprised everything their government told them about America was true was hilarious)

    • Belly_Beanis [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      3 days ago

      “Oh yeah well then explain covid (which also isn’t real but it’s actually not that bad if you get it it’s just like the flu but we should sanction China for releasing a bioweapon on the US). I hold a consistent worldview with no contradictions because capitalism is the best system ever made. Checkmate liberal!”

  • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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    3 days ago

    It’s not even full list for US presidents. Obama alone waged iirc 13 wars, though some were inherited from Bush and/or passed to Trump too.

  • Evilsandwichman [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    I’d show this to the lib I work with but honestly? If the conflict happened before the 2000’s then it’s an old conflict, if it happened post 2000’s then there was a good reason for it (bUt ThE LeAdEr WaS a diCtAtOr).

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      it’s the best I got, but here are the wars listed out

      US Presidents and Their Wars
          RONALD REAGAN
              Gulf of Sidra Encounter
              Multinational Intervention in Lebanon
              Invasion of Grenada
              Action in the Gulf of Sidra
              Bombing of Libya
              Tanker War
              Tobruk Encounter
      
          GEORGE H. W. BUSH
              Invasion of Panama
              Gulf War
              Iraq No-Fly Zone Enforcement Operations
              First U.S. Intervention in the Somali Civil War
              Bosnian War
      
          BILL CLINTON
              Intervention in Haiti
              Kosovo War
              Operation Infinite Reach
      
          GEORGE W. BUSH
              War in Afghanistan
              2003 Invasion of Iraq
              Iraq War
              War in North-West Pakistan
              Second U.S. Intervention in the Somali Civil War
      
          BARACK OBAMA
              Operation Ocean Shield
              International Intervention in Libya
              Operation Observant Compass
              American-led Intervention in Iraq
              American-led Intervention in Syria
              Yemen Civil War
              American Intervention in Libya
      
          DONALD TRUMP
              More US Troops in Iraq
              US Troops Occupy Northern Syria
              Continued War in Afghanistan
              Increased Drone Killings in Africa
      
          Joe Biden
              US Troops in Northern Syria
              Armed Ukraine
              US Arms Israeli Bombing of Gaza
      
  • Zombie@feddit.uk
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    3 days ago

    Y’all got any more of them there pixels? My old eyes aren’t what they used to be