The problem is that cheap equipment literally performs worse, for you. And can make the frequencies around you worse, because of poor filtering or bad circuit design.
I’m not saying $4000 needs to be spent. You can get all the radio you’ll ever need, for $800-900, with an icom 7300. Now that’s not cheap, but it’s definitely in the realm of feasibility. People pay more for cell phones in some cases.
But, if you want a more manual experience, and save some money, you can get older Kenwood hybrids for $500-600. Heck I bought my ts530s for $300 when I first started, it had an issue where it was partially broken, but I was able to fix it just by cleaning a few switches with deoxit.
But baofengs, while they can work, and heck I own them. Some of them are pretty poorly built. I definitely experienced issues with mine, adding more antenna started making my signal reception worse! I later learned it was front end overload, from cheap filtering. But that’s besides the point.
I’m sorry your experience was so bad, and that people were rude to you. And it’s a shame you never got to put that donated equipment to use. It really is a fun hobby if you can get into it.
This really showcases how out of touch most hams are. $800 just to get your foot in the door is completely unreasonable. OR you could buy a broken piece of junk for $300 that you have to fix yourself? Good god.
800 for the last radio you’ll ever need. I didn’t say start with it.
4 to 500 for a middle ground radio.
300 if you want to learn to fix it, it’s a feature not a bug. And it’s not for everyone, I never said it was.
You can get a 5w HF radio for $100, plenty to learn on, but can be frustrating if the solar cycle is down.
If you really want to get your foot in the door, get your foot out the door and over to your local club, they lend you gear, or even give it to you and has happened to me a time or two when I was starting. Or you can use their club station, or go out and do a POTA with someone. That’s what I do with my buddies kids, and they love it 🤷♂️
There’s plenty to do, nobody is trying to gate keep here. It’s just a hobby with a very high cost ceiling, and a lot of people who’ve been doing it for decades and built up equipment stores. It’s a lot to come into, and yes we do need to be more welcoming.
Do you think people are made of money? I’m not spending $100 on a hobby I don’t even know if I’ll like yet. Out of touch indeed. My dude if I can manage to put $50 in my savings account on any random month, that is a fantastic month for me.
One dude in the article spent $25,000 on his gear, that’s more than twice what I spent on my car!
My budget is $20 max to start. If and only if I enjoy it will I possibly consider spending months and months of savings to buy better gear. You want more hams, start here.
And all of this is just for the transceiver! None of your costs account for antenna, wiring, coax, antenna tuners, etc. etc. and it assumes you have SPACE for these giant antennas in the first place, which I do not.
Kind reminder that words have meaning, and your tone, to me at least, is coming across very combative. I’m just trying to have a conversation 🤷♂️
I’m sorry that $100 is out of your reach. The economy isn’t getting any better, it seems.
Truly it seems to me that based on your requirements for hobbies, this is one you may have to pass up. Which stinks, but sometimes that’s how it goes.
For a lot of people, $100 is still a lot of money, but not out of the realm of possibility for a hobby startup. If they were interested, that is.
All that said, going to a club and hanging out with people who have the equipment and would love to share and teach you, is completely free, and a valid option. My club’s radio room is open every Saturday for anyone who wants to warm some clouds with RF. If you’re not licensed, someone will sit with you so you can use their callsign.
There are some crusty old curmudgeony farts in this hobby, sure. But if you only ever look at the negative, you’ll never see the positive. Lot of chill people, some normal, some weird, all harmless, who want to help you 🤷♂️
It’s a great hobby, I got into it after having to learn a lot of antenna theory for work. I rolled it into a hobby. Just as any hobby though … the high number of elitists just put a bad taste in my mouth. I’m not going to spend that kind of money to listen to guys to spout politics on local channels, fight with massive amplified signals for satellite bounces, be shamed/ignored at local meets for not buying the latest and greatest.
$500+ to get an HF radio is not enticing for a young person. You can get a gaming laptop for that, unless there is an uncommon passion for radio in that new person the hobby can’t compete. (I don’t own a PC it’s just an example)
The question was how to get people involved… I’m just adding my 2 cents on why I walked away after putting time into getting started.
So I’m not just complaining, sorry if it comes off that way. Getting away from voice is the only way to inspire and interest new people. SSTV from ISS was interesting, several guys would setup image transfer and emails(?) on the local repeater which was an interesting idea. A decentralized email system would be interesting to me but not to many that aren’t in natural disasters prone areas. Like passing traffic on 2m/70cm but instead it be data until it reaches someone with internet. Think BitTorrent type data transmission. Promote CW via software to allow for minimal power communications rather than make it a frowned upon activity. I never got a chance to really attempt packet radio but I imagine it would be similar to CW via software. One step further… Software for things like raspberry pi. Small affordable development computers that can expand the hobby, maybe that’s common now? I dunno. If it is already a thing then that’s the sort of thing that needs to be promoted. If the hobby remains the overpowered walkie-talkies/CB then it’s just going to continue to decline as the older generations pass away.
Computers for communication aren’t going anywhere but are highly dependent on the ISP infrastructure. This being Lemmy I think we should all understand the potential and possibilities of decentralized uses.
There are some good ideas in there. I definitely agree more needs to be done, and there are definitely lots of bad actors out there. I’m not sure what the final solution will be
Those inexpensive, although less traditional means is the answer to the question that started this thread.
They need to be promoted and advertised above all else. Once someone is interested then you can add in the expensive things.
Example, I race RCs. Just the chassis of some of the cars is well above $500(I use $100 3racing Chinese knock offs and extremely very competitive with them btw). These cars are raced on perfectly flat and prepared asphalt so it’s very niche. The club wants members to race… We don’t tell people that come to watch that they should buy the $1500 car&radio, nobody will join. We have several classes that are “starters”. The cost of the cars is $100-200 ready to race. It’s not fast at all but it’s cheap enough to see if you want it. It’s also cheap and easy to maintain. Most people enjoy the inexpensive racing that fills the majority of the day.
The hobby needs to adapt to the complaints/requests of people not actively involved but willing to give it a try.
That’s fair, yeah important to make it clear what’s available and what will do the job.
A lot of people have a buy once cry once mentality, which I do agree with in a lot of ways, but that’s a hard sell.
RC cars is probably worse, because your equipment takes a literal beating. That’s how it was in the fpv drone world, 100mph into a tree and you’re done for the day, probably a hundred or two in damage, if you’re lucky. So n in that world too I flew cheaper stuff, still fun, but still hurts to take a crash and destroy a $50 camera it vtx, etc.
That’s where loaning equipment out comes into play. I loaned out drone stuff, to be used with me present and teaching. And that’s what I try to do with ham radio, come hang out, we’ll do a POTA or chase some DX. But I feel like a lot more people these days are losing social skills and don’t want to hang out, or as evidenced in this thread they don’t even want to use their voice to talk on the radio. There are digital options, but this complicates the lending/teaching/social aspect 🤷♂️
Again, I don’t have the answers, it’s a complicated problem in a changing world. But there sure are a lot of black and white opinions in here.
Agreed, but OP is asking how you get people (ie it’s not ok if it’s not for you // or // we want people more aware of this) – for someone approaching a new hobby you usually do need something lower cost because people don’t know if they’re into it. The counterpoint would be rich people I suppose who can go all in before they know they like something.
But that’s good to know there are more approachable things to learn.
I guess that’s fair. My “it’s ok if it’s not for you” was more of a specific platitude for him because we’d already discussed some of the options available, and he’s already put some effort in and decided it wasn’t for him 🤷♂️
I agree we need to entice more people, I don’t have a good answer as to how. If someone looks into it, and makes an informed decision, then I’m not going to twist their arm.
One thing I’ve tried with my friends kids is to take them out and do POTA in the woods, let them run a pileup. They really seem to enjoy it, enough to stay studying, but not enough to follow through. What can you do? 🤷♂️
The problem is that cheap equipment literally performs worse, for you. And can make the frequencies around you worse, because of poor filtering or bad circuit design.
I’m not saying $4000 needs to be spent. You can get all the radio you’ll ever need, for $800-900, with an icom 7300. Now that’s not cheap, but it’s definitely in the realm of feasibility. People pay more for cell phones in some cases.
But, if you want a more manual experience, and save some money, you can get older Kenwood hybrids for $500-600. Heck I bought my ts530s for $300 when I first started, it had an issue where it was partially broken, but I was able to fix it just by cleaning a few switches with deoxit.
But baofengs, while they can work, and heck I own them. Some of them are pretty poorly built. I definitely experienced issues with mine, adding more antenna started making my signal reception worse! I later learned it was front end overload, from cheap filtering. But that’s besides the point.
I’m sorry your experience was so bad, and that people were rude to you. And it’s a shame you never got to put that donated equipment to use. It really is a fun hobby if you can get into it.
This really showcases how out of touch most hams are. $800 just to get your foot in the door is completely unreasonable. OR you could buy a broken piece of junk for $300 that you have to fix yourself? Good god.
That’s a misrepresentation.
800 for the last radio you’ll ever need. I didn’t say start with it.
4 to 500 for a middle ground radio.
300 if you want to learn to fix it, it’s a feature not a bug. And it’s not for everyone, I never said it was.
You can get a 5w HF radio for $100, plenty to learn on, but can be frustrating if the solar cycle is down.
If you really want to get your foot in the door, get your foot out the door and over to your local club, they lend you gear, or even give it to you and has happened to me a time or two when I was starting. Or you can use their club station, or go out and do a POTA with someone. That’s what I do with my buddies kids, and they love it 🤷♂️
There’s plenty to do, nobody is trying to gate keep here. It’s just a hobby with a very high cost ceiling, and a lot of people who’ve been doing it for decades and built up equipment stores. It’s a lot to come into, and yes we do need to be more welcoming.
ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS.
Do you think people are made of money? I’m not spending $100 on a hobby I don’t even know if I’ll like yet. Out of touch indeed. My dude if I can manage to put $50 in my savings account on any random month, that is a fantastic month for me.
One dude in the article spent $25,000 on his gear, that’s more than twice what I spent on my car!
My budget is $20 max to start. If and only if I enjoy it will I possibly consider spending months and months of savings to buy better gear. You want more hams, start here.
And all of this is just for the transceiver! None of your costs account for antenna, wiring, coax, antenna tuners, etc. etc. and it assumes you have SPACE for these giant antennas in the first place, which I do not.
Kind reminder that words have meaning, and your tone, to me at least, is coming across very combative. I’m just trying to have a conversation 🤷♂️
I’m sorry that $100 is out of your reach. The economy isn’t getting any better, it seems.
Truly it seems to me that based on your requirements for hobbies, this is one you may have to pass up. Which stinks, but sometimes that’s how it goes.
For a lot of people, $100 is still a lot of money, but not out of the realm of possibility for a hobby startup. If they were interested, that is.
All that said, going to a club and hanging out with people who have the equipment and would love to share and teach you, is completely free, and a valid option. My club’s radio room is open every Saturday for anyone who wants to warm some clouds with RF. If you’re not licensed, someone will sit with you so you can use their callsign.
There are some crusty old curmudgeony farts in this hobby, sure. But if you only ever look at the negative, you’ll never see the positive. Lot of chill people, some normal, some weird, all harmless, who want to help you 🤷♂️
@Earflap Saved you $4.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007151091174.html?browser%5C_id=26f5bcbea93d487988803cd5dee3858e&aff%5C_platform=msite&m%5C_page%5C_id=waidcprjcatptfhe195c47603eca1e9bce7cf5cf8e&pdp%5C_ext%5C_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%223313%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%7D&pdp%5C_npi=4%40dis%21USD%2170.26%2115.87%21%21%21506.55%21114.43%21%402103209b17427578234504317e83c9%2112000039658730663%21sea%21AU%210%21ABX&algo%5C_pvid=d192938d-f7c7-409d-8c45-c9775e1bd92b&%5C_universallink=1&m%5C_page%5C_id=waidcprjcatptfhe195c47603eca1e9bce7cf5cf8e
It’s a great hobby, I got into it after having to learn a lot of antenna theory for work. I rolled it into a hobby. Just as any hobby though … the high number of elitists just put a bad taste in my mouth. I’m not going to spend that kind of money to listen to guys to spout politics on local channels, fight with massive amplified signals for satellite bounces, be shamed/ignored at local meets for not buying the latest and greatest.
$500+ to get an HF radio is not enticing for a young person. You can get a gaming laptop for that, unless there is an uncommon passion for radio in that new person the hobby can’t compete. (I don’t own a PC it’s just an example)
The question was how to get people involved… I’m just adding my 2 cents on why I walked away after putting time into getting started.
So I’m not just complaining, sorry if it comes off that way. Getting away from voice is the only way to inspire and interest new people. SSTV from ISS was interesting, several guys would setup image transfer and emails(?) on the local repeater which was an interesting idea. A decentralized email system would be interesting to me but not to many that aren’t in natural disasters prone areas. Like passing traffic on 2m/70cm but instead it be data until it reaches someone with internet. Think BitTorrent type data transmission. Promote CW via software to allow for minimal power communications rather than make it a frowned upon activity. I never got a chance to really attempt packet radio but I imagine it would be similar to CW via software. One step further… Software for things like raspberry pi. Small affordable development computers that can expand the hobby, maybe that’s common now? I dunno. If it is already a thing then that’s the sort of thing that needs to be promoted. If the hobby remains the overpowered walkie-talkies/CB then it’s just going to continue to decline as the older generations pass away. Computers for communication aren’t going anywhere but are highly dependent on the ISP infrastructure. This being Lemmy I think we should all understand the potential and possibilities of decentralized uses.
There are some good ideas in there. I definitely agree more needs to be done, and there are definitely lots of bad actors out there. I’m not sure what the final solution will be
But all it gets you for $900 is to…do a worse version of what your phone does, in public? I don’t get it.
To answer op you have to give people a reason why. Learning the technology seems valid but not at that price point.
I mean, if you look at it that way, yeah. But to me the science is cool, and there’s a few other aspects that I enjoy as well. I outlined it here.
You can learn the technology for significantly less if you’re motivated, and handy. $100 for a 5w HF radio. That’s half the fun is learning.
But also, if that’s not enticing, then maybe it’s just not for you, and that’s ok 🤷♂️
Those inexpensive, although less traditional means is the answer to the question that started this thread.
They need to be promoted and advertised above all else. Once someone is interested then you can add in the expensive things.
Example, I race RCs. Just the chassis of some of the cars is well above $500(I use $100 3racing Chinese knock offs and extremely very competitive with them btw). These cars are raced on perfectly flat and prepared asphalt so it’s very niche. The club wants members to race… We don’t tell people that come to watch that they should buy the $1500 car&radio, nobody will join. We have several classes that are “starters”. The cost of the cars is $100-200 ready to race. It’s not fast at all but it’s cheap enough to see if you want it. It’s also cheap and easy to maintain. Most people enjoy the inexpensive racing that fills the majority of the day.
The hobby needs to adapt to the complaints/requests of people not actively involved but willing to give it a try.
That’s fair, yeah important to make it clear what’s available and what will do the job.
A lot of people have a buy once cry once mentality, which I do agree with in a lot of ways, but that’s a hard sell.
RC cars is probably worse, because your equipment takes a literal beating. That’s how it was in the fpv drone world, 100mph into a tree and you’re done for the day, probably a hundred or two in damage, if you’re lucky. So n in that world too I flew cheaper stuff, still fun, but still hurts to take a crash and destroy a $50 camera it vtx, etc.
That’s where loaning equipment out comes into play. I loaned out drone stuff, to be used with me present and teaching. And that’s what I try to do with ham radio, come hang out, we’ll do a POTA or chase some DX. But I feel like a lot more people these days are losing social skills and don’t want to hang out, or as evidenced in this thread they don’t even want to use their voice to talk on the radio. There are digital options, but this complicates the lending/teaching/social aspect 🤷♂️
Again, I don’t have the answers, it’s a complicated problem in a changing world. But there sure are a lot of black and white opinions in here.
Agreed, but OP is asking how you get people (ie it’s not ok if it’s not for you // or // we want people more aware of this) – for someone approaching a new hobby you usually do need something lower cost because people don’t know if they’re into it. The counterpoint would be rich people I suppose who can go all in before they know they like something.
But that’s good to know there are more approachable things to learn.
I guess that’s fair. My “it’s ok if it’s not for you” was more of a specific platitude for him because we’d already discussed some of the options available, and he’s already put some effort in and decided it wasn’t for him 🤷♂️
I agree we need to entice more people, I don’t have a good answer as to how. If someone looks into it, and makes an informed decision, then I’m not going to twist their arm.
One thing I’ve tried with my friends kids is to take them out and do POTA in the woods, let them run a pileup. They really seem to enjoy it, enough to stay studying, but not enough to follow through. What can you do? 🤷♂️