• Stamets@startrek.websiteOPEnglish
    314·
    9 months ago

    Well consciousness is just chemical and electrical impulses. If you manage to re-create everything down to the molecule in the right area then you could completely rebuild the consciousness. Also means you’d be able to completely manipulate memories, experiences, basically anything held in the brain. Provided you had an intense enough neural mapping and deep enough understanding of the human brain to accomplish that. Luckily in the Trek universe, at least at the time of the 24th/25th century, that isn’t possible.

    • 4am@lemm.eeEnglish
      313·
      9 months ago

      Your current consciousness, the one you are thinking with right now, would end.

      A clone of you would go on at the transport site, fully believing that it is you, and that everything was fine.

      Reconstructive teleportation is just remote replicators with mind control.

      • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafeEnglish
        182·
        9 months ago

        Feel free to prove the discontinuation of consciousness scientifically while satisfying all philosophic schools of thought on the matter.

        • School_Lunch@lemmy.worldEnglish
          24·
          9 months ago

          If you make a perfectly exact replica of yourself do you suddenly perceive the universe from two perspectives?

        • nymwit@lemm.eeEnglish
          7·
          9 months ago

          I mean, is there a scientific consensus on what constitutes consciousness? I thought that was a stumbling point on trying to pin down the various parts of the study of it. I wouldn’t say brain activity ceases while sleeping like that other comment but I’m in the camp that thinks the break in consciousness/awareness-of-being in a ST transporter is not really different than the break when sleeping.

        • Sordid@beehaw.orgEnglish
          51·
          9 months ago

          Easy, build the clone without destroying the original, then test if they share perceptions and memories. Show one a playing card and ask the other what card it was or something. Proving that two people don’t have the same consciousness is pretty trivial, and I don’t know of any philosophical schools that would dispute that.

            • Sordid@beehaw.orgEnglish
              1·
              9 months ago

              Yup, pretty much. It’s a shame Star Trek recognizes and points out this problem but then chickens out of it actually having any consequences.

      • nexguy@lemmy.worldEnglish
        71·
        9 months ago

        Same as sleeping. You could have been replaced by a clone every night while sleeping and never know it.

        • School_Lunch@lemmy.worldEnglish
          81·
          9 months ago

          That sounds like a form of last Thursdayism. The entire universe could’ve been created last Thursday with everything made to seem older, including everyone’s memories. These philosophies are usually shot down by occam’s razor.

          • nymwit@lemm.eeEnglish
            5·
            9 months ago

            Agree for Occam’s if someone is actually suggesting they are replaced nightly or your last Thursdayism, but as for conceiving of parallels to a made up teleportation technology and its philosophical implications, is the break in consciousness/self awareness for sleep not a reasonable comparison?

            • School_Lunch@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              9 months ago

              Occam’s razor is choosing the simplest answer. There is no simple answer when it comes to teleportation. I’m not sure there is a full break in consciousness when we sleep. Consciousness may not even be the right word…

              In this case I’m not defining consciousness as simply being awake, but instead defining it as the perspective from which each individual perceives the universe.

              • nymwit@lemm.eeEnglish
                1·
                9 months ago

                then we get to really specifically define individual, perspective, and perception (can you perceive while unconscious? I guess?), all sorts of fun knots to tie oneself into. I always thought the difference in sense vs. perception was the thinking about it, but if it’s processed at all by the “unconscious” I guess it’s still perception? I mean, I’m gettting twisted up thinking if my individual consciousness has a perspective from which it perceives the world

          • nexguy@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            9 months ago

            Cloning isn’t necessary. Every night your stream of consciousness could actually and permanently end and a new one is created upon dreaming/waking but you would never know it. This could be how it really works though we can’t know that. You could continuously lose and create new consciousnesses every firing of a neuron.

        • 4am@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          9 months ago

          True. This could be the first and only day of your life so far!

      • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social
        41·
        9 months ago

        Your current consciousness, the one you are thinking with right now, would end.

        Same thing happens every time you go to sleep. If your consciousness exists you exist, right down to you worrying about continuity of consciousness.

    • Olgratin_Magmatoe@startrek.websiteEnglish
      7·
      9 months ago

      Also means you’d be able to completely manipulate memories, experiences, basically anything held in the brain.

      That’s assuming you know which exact parts do exactly what. Kinda like an encrypted zip file versus an unencrypted one.

      You edit whatever set of bits/bytes you want in both, but only in one of them will you actually know whats going on.