ID: photo of Martin Luther King Jr. waving at the crowd during the March on Washington, on it is his quote: “He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.”
I feel like it should be a normal thing to openly stand against fascism. If anyone has a problem with me because of that then they’ve proven themselves to be people I would never want to interact with in the first place
It’s still somewhat incredible to me that the label “Antifa” is used as a pejorative by some of these talking heads.
Uhh, last I checked we committed a whole bunch of boats and soldiers to literally blowing the brains out of nazi skulls on one particular Day…
Opposing fascism should be the default American stance, we’re just riddled with cancer/capitalism
Opposing fascism should be the default American stance, we’re just riddled with cancer/capitalism
And it’s crazy, because, as someone who grew up in the 90s/00s, it always was. My public education did not shy away from shitting on Nazis and explaining the dangers of fascism. They started teaching that shit in elementary school.
The brain rot that has set-in over the past two decades or so has just been mind boggling and insane to watch.
somewhat incredible to me that the label “Antifa” is used as a pejorative by some of these talking heads
Incredible but not surprising. The talking heads use a word or a name as a pejorative for long enough, and the listeners internalize it.
You name yourself from a known fascist. You’re a talking head.
“Always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented”
- Elie Wiesel, Nobel Peace Prize 1986
Quoted from his acceptance speech -
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1986/wiesel/acceptance-speech/Elie Wiesel was born in 1928 in the town of Sighet, now part of Romania. During World War II, he, with his family and other Jews from the area, were deported to the German concentration and extermination camps, where his parents and little sister perished. Wiesel and his two older sisters survived. Liberated from Buchenwald in 1945 by advancing Allied troops, he was taken to Paris where he studied at the Sorbonne and worked as a journalist.
They took a side, its just not a side you’ll admit exists.
When everyone loses faith in the current and future DNC to the point that accelerationism toward complete disolution of the US government seems like the only viable choice, this is what it looks like.
The DNC being in favor of genocide steered muslim voters to want to burn this whole place down. Can you blame them? And its similar for the working poor who are one toothache or splean surgery from living under a bridge. I dont blame them either. But you seem to.
The very visible nationwide rage at the United Health care CEO and the dems being out to lunch on working class struggles-- coupled with the losses across every single demographic shows that this is a universal truth that exists whether you like it to or not. And this isnt about healthcare, its about the entire system of government.
The DNC being in favor of genocide steered muslim voters to want to burn this whole place down.
The muslim vote and Gaza protest votes combined isn’t what caused democrats to lose and they didn’t want to “burn this whole place down” as you put it, Democrats lost because of their shitty campaign, saying nothing about progressive politics or what people wanted to hear, ontop of all the Gaza stuff, and has the likes of Bill Clinton campaigning for them. Don’t blame muslims for the Democrats shitty-ass campaign.
I wasnt looking to attribute blame, especially to muslims. I was aiming to show that dem leadership had abandoned every demographic except the rich.
I take the side of the minority!
^Lemmy ^says ^Republicans ^are ^the ^minority
Complacency is complicity
“You shouldn’t pay attention to politics it’s unhealthy.” - My “liberal” “centrist” family. “You should focus on yourself” they say, “It is what it is, can’t do anything to change it, work on yourself” they say, as if the most enlightened and reasonable perspective is to put a blanket over your head and pretend that the monsters don’t exist. They’d say “It’s hard to take you seriously, maybe become a politician or economist” but when you give them reading material written by economists, politicians, as well as lauded minds like MLK Jr or Einstein, they roll their eyes and go “You shouldn’t pay attention to politics it’s unhealthy, focus on yourself.”
I’m not American so I’m not in as desperate a situation as you might be. That said, I have had the same discussions with many people and I’ve learned a few things.
One, ignoring a problem and hoping that it goes away is a totally natural coping strategy that works more often than we care to admit. It’s a perfectly appropriate coping strategy when you’re waiting out winter, but it’s maladapted to stopping fascists from knocking on your door.
Two, people only have so much bandwidth. Their jobs, kids, school work, and just existing takes up that bandwidth. When someone’s bandwidth is maxed out the only time I’ve been able to reach them is when they’re already thinking about something I have a very strong argument that aligns with their goals. Otherwise it’s a waste of time, they’re worried about getting their kids fed and in bed, they don’t have the brain power to think about how they could help overthrow the oligarchy.
Three, when those opportunities arise patience is key. Listen way more than than I speak, always keep the conversation focused on what they’re concerned about.
‘Know when to hold em, know when to fold them. Know when to walk away, know when to run.’
Exactly.
Meanwhile: me sitting here frustrated to hell people actually still pick “the lesser evil” PROTEST THE LESSER EVIL TOO!!! ACCEPT NOTHING LESS THAN COMPETENCY!
You know, a lot of comments are bringing up voting like there was any chance of votes preventing this. A lifetime of gerrymandering, court stacking, propaganda, and general fuckery led to this, and the only question was when the religious right wing and oligarchs made their move
Voting? That’s not shit.
What matters is real change brought by real people.
The people that didn’t vote? That wasn’t all protest non participation. Voter turnout has always been low because the average person just does not care.
Which means they won’t care if the people that do care tear down the currently successful right wing revolution with a counter revolution. All you have to do is keep just enough comfort during transition, and nobody will lift a finger from that group. They will not give a flying fuck at all.
Frankly, even if they did care, they’re also the segment least able to do a damn thing about any of it. They lack the will, the training, and the functional personal motivation to do anything but hunker down and wait, even if their comfort level does drop to the bottom.
I can’t say that’s good or bad, but it is what it is.
It’s up to the people that care to make changes. Right now, the right seems to care a fuck ton more than anyone else, so they’re pulling it off.
What do you mean votes couldn’t prevent this? You really think if Kamala had won by the electoral college that Trump would have won anyways??
I’m saying that this is the end goal the right wing, particularly the general Republican party and the Christian right in particular have been working towards since Nixon. The southern strategy, combined with the oligarchs dominating the party.
Democrats have never had a good plan to oppose that, and still don’t.
Even if Kamala had won, which was never likely, it would have been someone, at some point in the next fifty years because the first Trump term stacked the supreme court, and the party pushed hard to put decisive cases up.
There’s no way the halfassed efforts that democrats have been using my entire lifetime would have prevented an eventual lock on Congress and the presidency.
Mind you, I’m fairly convinced that had kamala won, there was a plan in the works for an outright attack. Not a genuine right wing revolution scale attack, but a disruptive series of attacks on the power grid and infrastructure to sow chaos and strengthen the militarization of the police even more, get people used to marshal law, etc. But that’s impossible to prove, and unsourceable.
In a roundabout way, any democrat winning would have had exactly as much effect on their long term plans. They’ve been working at this, laying multiple options down so that as soon as opportunity rose, they could strike in one way or another.
Voting can’t fix that. Voting democrat can’t fix that for sure. There is no viable alternative party to oppose it, and there’s no time to build one, despite the feeble bullshit being tried to rebuild the democrat establishment. You can’t take a party that gives lip service to the populace, but works to maintain the status quo of corporate interests on average, and turn it into a serious engine of change.
We’re past the point of waiting four years and hoping. We were past that when Biden eked out a win. But nobody took that respite to even try and shift things.
In a similar vein, anyone eligible to vote and chooses not to implicitly supports whoever wins.
lol no, I’m not going to get mad at my neighbors, I’m going to get mad at people who are actively trying to hurt them, not the ones accidentally doing it
The problem isn’t that fascists were voted into the White House. The problem is that there are fascists in the White House. Anything that doesn’t address that problem is equally implicit in supporting fascism. Arguing with your neighbors doesn’t get fascists out of the White House. If history is anything to go by it has obviously done the opposite
I think they are linked. Democracy can only work and thrive with an educated and/or informed population who is willing and able to have public and civil discourse. The fact that the political climate is the way it is now, so divided and only engaging to act on petty revenges, allows for fascism to take root. We saw this in Germany prior to the second World War. When NSDAP began beating people up in the street who opposed their ideology, with little repercussions for such behavior, led to the beer hall putsch, and eventually the rise of Herr Hitler. I can see parallels with the modern day political climate of America. The issue is that we voted them into the white house; I think that might even be more jarring than them being in there itself. Democratically voting a fascist in power is a tell tale sign that our democracy is not working.
We did not democratically elect a fascist. He cracked the election with a forgein Agent the CIA did nothing about.
Not the same fucking thing.
Even if that is the case, though you’ve provided no literature or evidence to substantiate such a grandiose claim, there are so many people who blindly support trump and would defend him against all logic and evidence. The fact that you see in many online spaces such massive support for a man like this is very concerning for democracy; just as it was when Hitler gained more and more support in his rise and seizure of power.
I don’t need to provide literature. I’m just assuming that you heard Trump admit to the fact, at his inaugeration blather at about 53min in, that Musk did the crack of the system of election counting in all the flip states he was in and left right after bomb threats and other vague threats upon each counter site.
As for the excess of ignorance on the internet, well, I just can’t say that I as well give way too much attention to folks running their mouth at me about this shittoo.
And anyone who votes for genocide without even bothering to vote uncomitted in the primary is a genocider themselves.
Do you join the KKK and vote for the “harm reduction” candidate for grand wizard?
Does the KKK control databases with everybody’s SSN, bank account info, addresses, etc?
No, an even more murderous organization does.
Six one way half a dozen the other.
Why are you presenting that like it’s a wild hypothetical when they can buy all that from a data broker?
Not necessarily, not in the US’s system for President, at least. If you don’t live in a swing state, your vote is literally a waste of time. Doesn’t matter who you support or don’t.
How many swing states would there be if absolutely every person voted?
Almost certainly the same amount. When was the last time you saw a state, that wasn’t considered a swing state, flip during a Presidential election from the candidate expected to win it to the other?
No, you bootlickers can repeat the same bullshit party lines and shove your heads up your ass as far as you please to maintain your personal comfort and shield yourself from reality (and from those actually responsible for and who benefit from fascism, which you miraculously never confront or even hold accountable, and are freely willing to
compromise withgive in to), but that doesn’t change it - participating in an oppressive system, and voting for one of either oppressive parties designated to you by those benefiting from that system to placate you with an illusion of choice is literally the opposite of protesting said system (E: never even mind that the idea that you can vote fascism away is beyond ignorant and laughable in its own right, it’s demonstrably wrong)TL;DR: your vote didn’t protest shit, it was manufactured consent for the status quo, get off your fucking high horse
The problem with having these arguments online is that you don’t actually know what nonentity did besides vote. What did you do? I’ve gone to rallies, I’ve written my representatives, I helped out at my college’s Gaza camp, I wrote and called my college’s chancellor about the Gaza camp, I’ve distributed literature about Palestine. And I fucking voted, uncommitted and then Harris, because as public enemy #1b (trans) I don’t have the privilege to let whoever wins win. Because people couldn’t be bothered to do the bare minimum and take an hour or two to go vote for the lesser evil, the government is erasing me from existence.
I’m genuinely curious what vote of mine didn’t protest shit, given that I’m not, nor ever have been, a Seppo.
And yet you participate in society. Curious!
By the time you get to the general election in the US where it’s guaranteed to be one candidate or the other, that is not where individual efforts have an effect. Those efforts need to happen early in the process.
We are literally living through the drastic harm INCREASE that happens when people didn’t vote for harm reduction.
But I’m not totally disagreeing with you here. I don’t really consider myself an accelerationist, and definitely not a democrat/liberal/capitalist, and if they redid the election I would vote against Trump 10 out of 10 times against almost any real democrat or independent or 3rd party. But the accelerationist path may be the only way through this.
There are more than two sides.
Great, dodecahedrons have 12 sides. What is your point? Pick any side you want that ISN’T FASCISM, and spread the word to your friends.
Looks like you got the point despite the poor comparison.
Does this include not voting because one is a single issue voter?
Edit: lmao, yall will really say whatever to justify your decision to make things worse.
Absolutely. Non-voters and “protest” voters chose not to oppose a known fascist. Their refusal to strategically use their voice has led to increased suffering of minorities, LGBTQ+, and likely an end to any semblance of US democracy.
Yeah, well, they’ve done it, 95 million Americans didn’t vote. Now what?
Are we gonna point the finger at them, lay the blame at their feet, and feel superior because WE VOTED, while the oligarchs and fascists loot our treasury and put our minority and LGBTQ+ brothers and sisters you seem to care so much about in camps? Or are we gonna go and fight the good fight like the people out in LA yesterday?
Are we gonna point the finger at them, lay the blame at their feet,
Absolutely.
If those 95 million would’ve voted together for Mike the local crackhead, Mike would’ve won the popular vote with about 20 million votes to spare… I don’t know, seems stupid to me to just go on the Internet to complain and then not use one of the only tools you have in a democracy?
I understand that going out voting is “accepting the system” but that is the only legal way to bring about change. If you don’t want to support the system that’s fine, work to dismantle it, take the fight to them. But just staying at home, doing nothing and then saying “I told you so” is just dumb.
I understand your point, but as you said:
But just staying at home, doing nothing and then saying “I told you so” is just dumb.
There are people WHO VOTED who are doing this, because it’s “not their responsibility” anymore.
There are people WHO VOTED who are doing this, because it’s “not their responsibility” anymore.
There are a lot of people like this, they did the bare minimum and feel like that’s enough, I mean at least it’s something? Still far from enough, I agree with that.
In these times I often think about the Berthold Brecht poem “Wer Zuhause bleibt”-“Whoever stays at home”.
Wer zu Hause bleibt, wenn der Kampf beginnt Und lässt andere kämpfen für seine Sache Der muss sich vorsehen: denn Wer den Kampf nicht geteilt hat Der wird teilen die Niederlage. Nicht einmal den Kampf vermeidet Wer den Kampf vermeiden will: denn Es wird kämpfen für die Sache des Feinds Wer für seine eigene Sache nicht gekämpft hat.
Translation :
Whoever stays at home when the fight begins and lets others fight for his cause must beware: For whoever has not shared the fight will share the defeat. Not even avoiding the fight helps anymore, because he who has not fought (for his own cause) has fought for the cause of the enemy.
Italics added by me
How do you vote against capitalism?
This right here.
Not only this but, if those non-voters organized and taken action in the last half-century, they would have been able to move the Overton to the Left, instead of the unending Right-ward crawl that we’ve been seeing. That could have prevented the likes of Clinton and Thatcher and erosion of workers’ rights.
Thank you for also making this point. There’s a lot of with to do. In-person protests, education and outreach, mutual aid and are some of the necessary avenues. Not everyone is able to march but there are many other ways to contribute to the fight.
Yeah, well, they’ve done it, 95 million Americans didn’t vote. Now what?
Y’all really are unble to take any kind of accountability whatsoever. “It’s done so it’s not relevant anymore” is a textbook example of what abusers say.
Are we gonna point the finger at them, lay the blame at their feet
Yes, absolutely. Non-voters are neglectful assholes whose inaction has had devastating impacts for multiple different countrie