• ChristianWS
        51·
        11 months ago

        We are talking about CSD, are we not?

        There are quite a number of DEs using CSD, and a couple of them even feature a more “traditional” layout with a button panel and left side app menu.

        While some folks like it, at this point one of the defining features of Plasma is the fact that it stands out by not using Server Side Decorations, or GTK for that matter.

        Besides, CSD is ugly

        • Fabian � 🏳️‍🌈@mstdn.social
          2·
          11 months ago

          @ChristianWS CSD can just look like the normal Window+Decoration.

          My point is however that KDE can use it to at least put something to the CSD, like the app-menu if visible. Different apps would find different purposes for it and there shouldnt be a hard requirement for it, but optional feature to use for the devs.

          CSD is just a ugly as you make it to be. In my opinion SSD is nowadays very out of place, vertical wasted space.

          • ChristianWS
            41·
            11 months ago

            Not really following what you mean.

            The moment you allow CSD, apps can and will put whatever they want on there, leading to wildly inconsistency in the number of things there.

            CSD will always looks weird cause it takes too much vertical space. It will never look as good as a normal Title Bar, which can be controlled by the server.

            You also lose draggable space, as now buttons are taking space.

            • Fabian � 🏳️‍🌈@mstdn.social
              4·
              11 months ago

              @ChristianWS It’s not the app that does this. Developer do this, they do this because they think it’s good. The KDE does have a nice visual design group (I was once part of it, So I know :P). It would be possible to define a design guide to follow so apps won’t look out of place, while still are able to make use of CSD.
              Plasma doesnt need to look like GNOMEs implementation of a CSD. The visuals are a completely different thing. The technology is the important part at first.

              • ChristianWS
                41·
                11 months ago

                Design follows technology and vice-versa. Once you allow devs to use CSD they can and will use that space to put buttons on it, and that inevitably leads to inconsistency between apps, because they will never share the same amount of buttons or be divided by the same amount of panels.

                CSD is a Pandora’s box that is best left unopened.

                • Fabian � 🏳️‍🌈@mstdn.social
                  1·
                  11 months ago

                  @ChristianWS “Design follows technology and vice-versa.” Thats a hard one. Yes, and also no. Things dont need to be the same to behave the same. Take Firefox and Chrome. They do not look the same, they still behave the same. They share a common design guideline. You need to go to the settings to see the parts that differ.
                  If KDE provides a good design guideline devs would follow them, because it’s easier and faster to have working patterns instead of putting work into it yourself.

                  • ChristianWS
                    3·
                    11 months ago

                    It doesn’t work for CSD cause you either have a very strict guideline to prevent inconsistency, limiting the number and location of buttons. At which point it is so limiting that Developers need add another bar to hold whatever they can’t put on the header bar, rendering the CSD implementation moot.

                    Or you do like GTK and allow inconsistency. You can’t win with CSD.

                    And that is not even mentioning if CSD is even a good idea in the first place. Some users deliberately went with Plasma due to the lack of CSD in the first place, those would migrate to LXQT or XFCE.

            • Alex 🇮🇹 💛 🇷🇺@pkm.social
              1·
              11 months ago

              As shown by Latte Dock’s Window Buttons widget, apps can display window controls that follow the window decoration theme.

              And in GNOME apps follow some guidelines that include how header bars should be.

              KDE apps do the same for everything but the titlebar that is drawn by KWin. If they are consistent with their content, I don’t see why they wouldn’t stay consistent when making the titlebar/window controls their own responsability.