Money is not inheritly bad, just think of it as a tool to make accounting easier

Is it though ? Not saying it is inherently bad, but in itself it forces a market value on everything - which is a rather limited proxy to usage value. In that sense money in itself is not neutral, not “just a tool”, as it shapes how exchanges are made in a society.

We shouldn’t be so angry that we think something as broad/simple as a marketplace has no use, and should not even be attempted, in creating a sustainable society worth living in.

It looks like you are conflating market economy and capitalism. These are two different concepts, and the first one predates the second by a few millenia.

So in the end the question was about capitalism but you argued in favor of market economy.

Ministry for the future, by Kim Stanley Robinson

Such is the power of economic orthodoxy - to trick you into thinking there is no alternative, that economic laws are laws of nature when they are “only” social constructions …

True. But there has been experiments, especially around melting currencies (is that the correct English name ?).

A recent example (in French, but I guess automatic translators are good enough now ?) : https://monnaie-libre.fr/

I see what you mean, but I think it’s true up to a certain point. Without growth, wealth concentration converges to a point where one actor owns everything. This is the perfect recipe for political instability and systemic failure.

Hey.

Most degrowth advocates I’ve seen or read in France are not talking about lifestyle changes for individuals - or at least, not without radical changes in the organization of society.

I agree that blaming poor people for driving shitty cars and living in poorly insulated buildings is stupid and counter-productive. But that’s how ecology is concieved by the ruling political class, not degrowth advocates.

Maybe if everyone had access to roughly the same wealth, market economy could be a good method of balancing economy ?

Not sure I agree with everything, let me rephrase this.

The way I see it, capitalism is a way of organizing an economic system that is based on accumulation of wealth (capital). Instead of sitting idle, capital is injected back into the economy through investment, with the promise of a juicy return on investment (and also, it gives power to those who own capital for they decide who gets investment).

For this juicy ROI to be possible, economic growth is a necessity - you can’t give back more to your lenders if what you did with the investment didn’t generate more value than the investment itself. So economic growth is at the very heart of capitalism.

When the market comes to a saturation point, growth starts to slow down. So you have two options:

1. open new markets, expanding the economic sphere (either geographically or in new segments of life)
2. make disposable products, through engineering (planned obsolescence) or advertisement (you need the new iPhone, believe me)

In the end, I don’t see consumerism as an ideal for a society, but rather the logical consequence of an economic system reified as an ideal. It doesn’t mean something similar couldn’t exist in another economic model, but I don’t think it can be separated from capitalism.

You are describing market economy, not capitalism.

How would you envision capitalism without consumerism ? I fail to see how capitalism would work without mass consumption.

Maybe we should, but I’m not sure we can - because one (nuclear + desalination) acts as a disincentive to the other (actually chaning practice).

Also, building a nuclear reactor takes a lot of time (do we have it ?), changing agricultural practices can start right now and scale progressively.

… or maybe switch to a less water intensive form of agriculture ?

Edit : I mean, how sustaining a wasteful practice with a huge wasteful infrastructure is progress ?

Just to be sure this is sarcasm, right ?

Hey there. As a non-architect interested in self-built housing, I found the barefoot architect quite interesting. I see this book as grassroot, community oriented architecture and urban planification (on a small scale). Maybe you’ll find some inspiration here?

Also, I don’t know where you’re from, but in some countries legislation makes it mandatory to have and architect review what you plan to build - maybe with your expertise and your ability to sign construction plans, you could assist self-builders in their projects?