Yes, but the point about minimizing plant deaths by eating plants instead of feeding more plants to animals and then eating the animals is a valid one…

The comment you link to does do a better job of explaining what you’re getting at, but I would still argue that those behaviors also require a partitioning of empathy, and that is a behavior most humans are susceptible to… Those who have empathy can often be made to shut it down or partition it so that it only applies to certain people.

I stand by my original comment modulo the part that asserts that it is empathy. It is not a lack of intelligence being the point.

I don’t think you understand what empathy is. Why are you bringing up irrational appeals to emotion?

Many of the Nazis convicted at Nuremberg were undeniably smart in the sense that they could perform abstract reasoning better than most people. Some of them had top 1% IQs and none of them had below average IQs (yes, IQ is an imperfect measure of intelligence, but at the same time, anyone who gets a 130 on an IQ test is smart… They just might not be smarter than someone with a 120 or a 110 from a different background).

I’ve had a long (25 years so far) and successful career in computational science/engineering. Everyone I have worked with in the last 25 year, with only 2 exceptions I can think of, was smarter than most people. I have heard some truly awful things come out of coworkers mouths. Particularly in the run up to the invasion of Iraq. People who could write software that accurately predicted airflow through jet engines who did not care that the people of Iraq were not the same people who attacked the WTC. They knew, but did not care! They simply wanted to lash out at brown people in the middle east.

No, empathy is the distinguishing characteristic.

We used to think that most animals lacked those things as well.

Plants very well may have some kind of consciousness or will, it’s just one that is so different from our own as to be unrecognizable with our current understanding.

Personally, I acknowledge that predation is a part of the ecosystem, and that it is not morally wrong to be a predator (Nobody thinks that falcons or bobcats are immoral for existing in the ecosystem the way that they do. I don’t think that should be different for humans). I do believe it is morally wrong to treat an animal poorly in advance of its demise though, so my policy on food is that I will eat animals and animal products if I believe that the animal that provided said food lived/is living a life that is as good as or better than it’s wild relatives, provided the practice is environmentally sustainable. So I eat a mostly vegan diet, but I also sometimes eat eggs from people’s well treated pet poultry or pasture raised chickens, and I eat seafood that the monterey bay aquarium says is sustainable. On rare occasions I will eat pasture raised poultry or hunted meat. I don’t do any dairy or farmed red meat because of the greenhouse gasses associated with their production.

I think it’s important for us to hunt deer in most of north america because we eliminated their primary natural predator from the ecosystem and they overpopulate to the point of being harmful to the environment without wolves in their ecosystem.

Yup… I plan on starting to pay attention to the recommendations of canadian and UK officials now when it comes to public health and vaccination recommendations.

I’m about 2 hours by car from the canadian border and intend to vaccinate by medical tourism if needed.

I heard it’s why dogs often stare at you while they poop. They’re like “You got my back, right?”

The original Nazis came for the trans folks before the Jews.

It’s fucking disgusting how similar it is and how few people see it

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/

I live in Maine. Riding a motorcycle in the winter is not only highly unpleasant, it’s borderline suicidal.

I’m all for 2 wheeled transport where it works, but anywhere that gets snow for months out of each year it’s a non starter as a primary transportation mode

I don’t think we didn’t understand what you’re getting at. I think you’re missing my point though.

You’re describing the way you see respect and work in your value system. Totally valid.

I’m saying that to some people bringing that kind of commitment to a job that disrespects you by not compensating you adequately is disrespectful to yourself.

Are you the kind of person who goes the extra mile for people above you in a hierarchy who don’t give a shit about you? To many, answering yes to that question indicates the lack of self respect, not the presence of it.

What I was trying to explore in my story is a different layer. Something personal and internal. Though respect should be a two way street, it is still a street worth walking alone. That even in imperfect systems, even when others don’t “earn” your respect or see your effort, there’s still a kind of power in choosing to show up with integrity. Not because they deserve it, but because you do.

I think that’s a fine way to go through life. But to expect it of others is messed up. Some people don’t want to prioritize a job that will not prioritise them, and that’s fine. Your suggestion is just a little too close to “tread on me harder, Daddy” than a lot of people are comfortable with. And they aren’t wrong. If doing the work for yourself works for you, that is great. It will make your life easier in some ways. But it absolutely should not be expected in our society.