This is a dumb debate, and just wastes time.

The company using said thing, standing behind whatever product is being sold, is, just like using any other tool.

If you’re a landscaping company, and your lawnmower runs over someone, you get sued, not the lawnmower company.

If the reason it happened was because the tool malfunctioned, then you separately sue the AI company.

As no one says their bot is capable of being used in situations that could result in loss of life, that isn’t 100% accurate, because no one should be doing that.

This feels like a nonsensical bot response its so illogical.

You make no points and call me names.

It’s literally the whole deal

If this were true, and you weren’t just supporting useless gatekeeping, then removing it would result in a non working game.

This is a preference you have, to specifically eliminate choice for other people.

This is a nonsensical and unrealistic fear/threat to be putting at the top of your list.

The biggest problems are happening right now not in some 90s sci fi films.

One of those threats is automated weaponry and mass surveillance, but not in the comic relief way you speak about it.

What were the two biggest issues for people going into the election? The economy (stagnate wages, inflation, cost of school, medical, housing etc it’s all wrapped up an affordability crisis) and the genocide in Gaza.

Not even close. You live in a tremendous bubble.

The first absolutely. The second not at all.

You starting off with some identity politics nonsense claim just means I dont care to fully respond to the rest of this. Its also old, because so many people on this site are clearly insufferable, bots or so idealistic they flip around to actually fighting against the causes they pretend to care about due to purity testing.

Thats the beauty to silly idealists who pretend they can’t understand that hundreds of employees getting paid full time wont materialize out of thin air to keep a massive project like a web browser alive in the absence of that structure.

In that individuals can be, and that its very difficult to actually do a broad search because content that might exist in one might not exist in another, and that the types of people to run them often dont want search engines indexing them

Firefox then

Whoo it is chained by googles search engine deal

This is some serious self eating idealist talk here.

In life you must realize there are many situations where you think about the context and consequences of your choices, and you choose the closest to viable option.

Firefox is that.

It sucks that there is that google deal, but ultimately the world effects of firefox dying are wide reaching despite its diminishing numbers and so much greater than so many casually Mozilla doomer takes realize.

Do people realize that if Firefox dies (in the many ways that could be interpreted), all of these downstream forks will also die right?

Like, the work to in essence remove unwanted parts of a code base is admirable but its an utterly miniscule fraction of the work that goes into maintaining a modern browser, keeping up with standards, sending people to be voices at conventions, etc.

Literally Firefox.

I feel like the reasons are obvious and I am constantly amazed at people who choose offshoots that end up having problems jsut as bad or worse than Chrome.

• Firefox actually uses an engine independent of Chromium

• Firefox keeps developer documentation for the actual open web in a a clear fashion better than anyone else with MDN.

• Firefox is responsible for all of the heavy lifting for any of the browsers downstream of it that people seem to want to switch to so that Mozilla is less supported and the browsers they are on also break (which is bizzare footgun behaviour in my opinion, and exactly why the people who are idealists inherently can’t win. They shoot themselves in the foot with idealism so hard that companeis don’t even have to care about their opinions).

• Firefox has more resistant than the engine makers of any other browser to anti autonomy web changes like Chromes manifest 3, tvarious new tracking mechanisms and more.

Excuse a little bit of snark at hypothetical responses below, but Im just so frustrated Ill let off a little steam here:

bUt Ai.

So they have a few AI features you have to purposefully find or stumble into, and that means you are going to do everything in your power to make sure your last actual chance to avoid completely Google domination dies too?

You are basically begging for the even more intense enshitification that will come if Firefox actually dies.

bUt SoMeOnE eLsE cAn CoNtInUe DeVeLoPmEnT

Oh yeah? Someone else is going to take on this project with a massive amount of legacy code, inside knowledge and hundreds of people working on it constantly to keep it completely up to date??

You must have been confused when I mentioned above Mozilla does the heavy lifting for the browsers down stream. Just because someone makes a fork that removes features doesnt mean they are equipped to handle the level of work done in the code they are downstream of.

Anyways, the bottom line is, for now, if you actually value open source, the answer is Firefox.

What a bizzare reaction. Sorry I burst your imaginary bubble?

Its interesting to me that your argument is that things completely different to what you are saying is the primary reason you lost, is why she lost but are trying to poorly link them together.

It can’t be both. Either its the change or its the genocide, and its obviously not the latter because the other party is worse.

Even then, your reasoning falls apart because you are refusing to acknoledge that instead people didn’t turn out for harris when they did turn out in normal numbers for trump. For republicans they fall in line, for democrats they fall in love.

Sure there are people who didnt vote for her because her intersectionality of a black Indian woman but that isn’t what lost her election no matter how hard to try to spin your cope.

Just because you want something to be cope as a cheap dismissal doesnt mean it is.

terf Island

Me personally, I’d choose NZ

But also like they did historic (up til Trump ofc) expansions in ICE, were deregulating industry,

This is to appeal to the morons they lost to.

deregulating industry,

What??? Biden was in so many ways better at regulating industry than other presidents. Lina Khan did work.

refused to make his campaign policies materialize like single payer healthcare

In what alternate universe did you hear him make that promise?

and ran cover for genocide

Yup, but people do have to remember the alternative we have now is literally worse on this in every conceivable way. Also, I feel fairly confident in my assumption mossad has the best blackmail in the world… The things israel gets away with…

and it was one of the most substantive reasons Trump is now in power.

This is utterly nonsensical. People who are not brain dead did not see trump, who wants the palestinians all to die, very publicly, and think “well joe is still bad, so lets think worse”. That would be a brain rot psyop level of non thought.

I think democrats lost because people were racist and sexist, people didn’t feel spoken too by someone with charisma (partially tied to the first, but also shes literally an EX DA…), the world has been seeing a bad shift in key metrics, and people who don’t pay attention just blame that on whoever is currently in power.

There were probably more, but I think those are the key ones and think the idea that palestine is what made kamela lose is something that people who only pretend to care say.

Is society so broken that we unintentionally produce these kinds of monsters or are some people just inherently born evil?

Unintentionally? Brother there are like a dozen rich white right wing billionaires who have made this their lives purpose. There have been organizations like them for … basically forever with all different sorts of dynamics.

They are very intentionally being created, and of course some people grow up without empathy for those different for them, or without any at all.

They were stabbed by 50% of people going through life not giving a shit about anything, then 30% of the remaining 100 actively wanting to harm others as their primary purpose in life.

You see it in the poll numbers.

Its why republicans consistently get 30% and democrats fluctuate based on vibes maaan.

You also see it in how people act when witnessing someone being abused, where most just want to turn away and pretend its none of their business even when they are in a position to do something meaningful.

Also, I don’t see locking data from search engines as a bad thing. The fediverse isn’t search engine searchable either

The fediverse not being searchable is one of the biggest flaws with it, and make it similarly ephemeral to Discord, except its actually worse because the sizes of communities are just in that goldilocks area of awfulness where there are echo chambers, and people are rude and toxic. Whatsmore, availability due to the small size is relatively mediocre.

However, it’s free and they have to support it somehow.

These arguments might just give me an aneurysm.

This has let so many horrible free to play games off the hook while they literally make billions in profits and have astounding profit margins.

Discord makes money.

In a non hyper greed infested world, they could simply coast at the level of wealth they are at now, still making free money for their investors, paying their workers, and improving the service, without making peoples lives shittier.

There is no reason to justify this shit.

Have you not seen the world? Everything, no matter how horrific, can always get infinitely worse.

The PIF could buy it and ban gay people. Israel could buy it and persecute people against genocide. A rich right wing billionaire could buy it and force even more nazi memes upon the youth. They could make a monetized limit to how many servers one can join that is purposefully below any sane reasonable or normal level. They could make PMs pay per message.

There are infinite ways it can get worse. Infinite.

It also makes giving or getting any kind of support a hellish time sink, but that’s almost besides the point…

You know, this comment just made me realize this might actually be the point for some companies.

Its a cheap way to pretend that you care about customer service, while actually dissuading customers strongly from actually trying. Its also completely easy to bot vs having a human on a phone line.