Linux does not work with the particular hardware or software you want or need to use.
That’s a good reason
It’s a PITA to just do basic stuff.
What’s outright bullshit so kinda obviated your argument. Sure, if downloading onto a thumb drive and rebooting a few times is hard becase you expect your OS to be preloaded then maybe but that wasn’t even your point.
Mint has a web browser, Office Software, Graphic Software, Music Players etc all loaded. Open up the Application Installer, a GUI and type in the obvious bar at the top for what you want, download and good to go.
In my experience basic stuff like browsing files, editing documents, launching apps, installing apps, and obviously a million things using a web browser, are all easy and snappy in a fresh out of the box install of Linux Mint.
That’s cool. That’s not been my experience at all. Nor has it many many other people. It’s like the number 1 complaint, and the number of delusional people who try to pretend like it doesn’t exist is insane.
It’s a PITA because there are a dozen different installation methods, and if anything at all is not functioning perfectly, the only advice you’ll get is typing random commands into the terminal that report back some generic error that you have no idea what to do with.
i dont mean this in a judgemental way but that sounds like you dont understand or just dislike the process and conflate that with difficulty. the commands aren’t random, you just don’t know them. people who have learned how to use the OS (granted, not everyone has the time for that) generally know what commands do before they paste them in. I have a much easier time running a single command rather than navigating through layers of GUI but not everyone will share that preference
that sounds like you dont understand or just dislike the process and conflate that with difficulty
LOL and what exactly else would you call that? They’re random to me. I don’t know them, I don’t want to know them, I just want it to work like every other sensible OS where I can figure out how to complete basic tasks without needing a computer science degree. That’s what most people want and it’s why Linux will remain a niche OS by nerds and for nerds, because that’s the way they like it, which is fine, but let’s not try to gaslight people into believing there’s no reason people might want something else.
I’d call it baby duck syndrome. I hate hunting for exes online to install the most basic software and how there’s no way to update all of my apps with a single click but I understand the way I’m used to isn’t the same as the best way.
Point 2 is wrong. It’s very easy to basic stuff. I’d argue it’s easier than Windows, which is a convoluted mess. You’re just used to it being shit.
Point 1, maybe. The fact you just keep repeating “particular hardware or software that does not work” without actually giving an example shows you’re talking out of your ass though. Sure, there are a few cases, but not many anymore. Most, if not all, of those cases can be handled by a VM though.
I can’t agree with you tbh. It depends on the distro. On Windows I can basically one-click install OpenMW and it Just Works™. I can’t even play it on my distro because for whatever reason it’s broken. I ended up having to flat out purge it and install the daily build to get it working. Maybe it works better on other distros, idk. Worked fine until my distro updated some months ago. When I was still running Lubuntu I had to build it from source to get it to work.
This is the nature of open source and decentralized platforms. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But if anyone expects the mainstream to adopt it when ease of use has been the name of the game for the last 20 years then they’re mistaken. As good as Linux has gotten, there are still kinks that need worked out before the average user will adopt it. One step towards that is government adoption. This will almost certainly lay out a stable baseline standard that can be built off of for a more coherent experience. I can see Linux competing with Windows provided it comes up to par on UX.
Having an app store is easier than expecting people to download things from the internet, just because your distro fucked up doesn’t mean this isn’t generally a win for linux.
i work IT, software fails to install ALL THE TIME on windows for all kinds of reasons
You keep implying Windows has ease-of-use on its side. That is just blatantly not true. I don’t know a Windows user that hasn’t had to edit registries, for example, and that’s a pain in the ass. Windows is just a piece of shit that people stepped in so long ago they stopped smelling it. They don’t pay attention to how bad it is to work with because “that’s just the way it is.” The one benefit is the software mentioned above (with just a vague notion of “some software” when the vast majority is fine), though again most work with a VM if Wine isn’t enough. Support is an issue of getting users there though. If people keep assuming that what you’re saying is true they’ll believe you and not try it. If they switch the software developers will start targeting Linux.
Playing old games is also often really painful on Windows, and requires a lot of hacks. On Linux I’ve had a very good time with that honestly. Maybe I’ve just gotten lucky, but Wine with Proton has made the experience with old games pretty easy.
Sampling bias. The people you know are likely more technologically inclined than the average user. Really, effectively anyone who uses Linux is simply due to the nature of the thing. To people like you and me, the average user is a literal idiot. And that’s something we forget. The average user doesn’t ever have to finagle with registries and probably doesn’t even know they exist. Hell, they probably don’t even know how to change their default browser from Edge. And don’t get me wrong, Windows is a piece of shit. But it’s undeniable that its standardized protocols and coherent ecosystem make it easier for the average person. I do concede that this is due in part to software developers targeting Windows primarily, but I don’t see a world where Linux is used by the masses unless some distro sees adoption and standardization by some larger body.
As for old games, if I played Morrowind via Steam it would work fine but the reason I play OpenMW is because it modernizes the engine. 1080p isn’t even possible in vanilla. 100% improvement imo, but it causes me problems on occasion.
I don’t know a Windows user that hasn’t had to edit registries, for example
You’re experiencing more delusions. 99.9% of Windows users wouldn’t even know what that is.
(with just a vague notion of “some software” when the vast majority is fine)
Again you’re asking me to write out what is a list a mile long. I’m not doing that.
I will give you one example though. I went to download GrayJay yesterday. I got the file. I have no idea what to do with it. Because there are a dozen types of files for Linux and all of them have to be installed differently. I got a folder. I know from years of experience how to install .deb, .rpm, flatpak and appimages, this folder has 398457 files in it and none of them are those. That’s not even getting into how a lot of Linux software, you’re expected to know how to compile the fuckin thing yourself…
You know how to install programs on windows? You download the .exe, double click the file and it installs itself, every time.
You know how to install programs on Mac? You click download on the .dmg, double click the downloaded file and it installs itself, every time.
It looks like GrayJay only has an android application, with a desktop one in testing. I’m assuming you have to compile that yourself because it’s in testing. You aren’t supposed to be using it if you can’t compile it from source. Just run the android one in an emulator if you need it on desktop. That’s the same thing you’ll need to do on Windows.
You know how to install programs on windows? You download the .exe, double click the file and it installs itself, every time.
Yeah… You have to go to their website, hope it’s the real one, download the .exe and install it. Then to update it you have to do the same thing. On Linux you just tell your package manager to install it and then you’re done forever. It’ll keep it updated and you never have to think about it. The fact Windows apps are required to check online for updates and then you have to open it in a browser and download and install it yourself is the most garbage experience. You’re just used to it.
I’m assuming you have to compile that yourself because it’s in testing
Weird, you don’t have to compile the Windows or Mac versions…? 🤷♂️
hope it’s the real one
…why wouldn’t it be the “real one” on their website?
The fact Windows apps are required to check online for updates and then you have to open it in a browser and download and install it yourself is the most garbage experience. You’re just used to it.
…no, they update themselves? Have you just never used anything other than Linux? It’s hard to imagine how you would not know this unless you hadn’t.
It’ll keep it updated and you never have to think about it.
Other than the pop-ups telling you you need to update every 5 minutes?
From their FAQ: “Do you have a desktop version? A desktop version is actively in the works, and already in internal testing phases.”
It looks like you can download the pre-built applications for all of them though, including Linux. You probably just need to use chmod to let your system know it’s allowed to execute it.
…why wouldn’t it be the “real one” on their website?
I meant the website.
…no, they update themselves? Have you just never used anything other than Linux? It’s hard to imagine how you would not know this unless you hadn’t.
No they don’t… They tell you if there’s an update and then you have to do it.
Other than the pop-ups telling you you need to update every 5 minutes?
Mine doesn’t. I’m on Garuda. It just has an icon on the task bar.
Yes, I am aware. I did not argue that is isn’t for testing. I said you didn’t need to compile it for Mac or Windows, because it’s not expected of you to have a CS degree to install it.
You probably just need to use chmod to let your system know it’s allowed to execute it.
WTF is chmod? Execute what? How can you not see that this is a problem?
The fact you just keep repeating “particular hardware or software that does not work” without actually giving an example shows you’re talking out of your ass though
LOL I love it when people get offended because someone disagrees with them and then try to put forward their experience as if it’s a fact. I didn’t repeat anything. I said it literally 1 time. You expect me to sit here and list the dozens of hardware configurations that I’ve personally used that have conflicts with Linux? Hell anything with an Nvidia GPU (which is the vast majority of GPUs in existence) is an exercise in software engineering just to get it functional.
Let me give you 2 big reasons:
That’s a good reason
What’s outright bullshit so kinda obviated your argument. Sure, if downloading onto a thumb drive and rebooting a few times is hard becase you expect your OS to be preloaded then maybe but that wasn’t even your point.
Mint has a web browser, Office Software, Graphic Software, Music Players etc all loaded. Open up the Application Installer, a GUI and type in the obvious bar at the top for what you want, download and good to go.
In my experience basic stuff like browsing files, editing documents, launching apps, installing apps, and obviously a million things using a web browser, are all easy and snappy in a fresh out of the box install of Linux Mint.
That’s cool. That’s not been my experience at all. Nor has it many many other people. It’s like the number 1 complaint, and the number of delusional people who try to pretend like it doesn’t exist is insane.
is it a pita because you expect it to function like windows or are there specific roadblocks youve encountered?
It’s a PITA because there are a dozen different installation methods, and if anything at all is not functioning perfectly, the only advice you’ll get is typing random commands into the terminal that report back some generic error that you have no idea what to do with.
i dont mean this in a judgemental way but that sounds like you dont understand or just dislike the process and conflate that with difficulty. the commands aren’t random, you just don’t know them. people who have learned how to use the OS (granted, not everyone has the time for that) generally know what commands do before they paste them in. I have a much easier time running a single command rather than navigating through layers of GUI but not everyone will share that preference
LOL and what exactly else would you call that? They’re random to me. I don’t know them, I don’t want to know them, I just want it to work like every other sensible OS where I can figure out how to complete basic tasks without needing a computer science degree. That’s what most people want and it’s why Linux will remain a niche OS by nerds and for nerds, because that’s the way they like it, which is fine, but let’s not try to gaslight people into believing there’s no reason people might want something else.
I’d call it baby duck syndrome. I hate hunting for exes online to install the most basic software and how there’s no way to update all of my apps with a single click but I understand the way I’m used to isn’t the same as the best way.
i literally said it’s up to preference, and I don’t have a CS degree, I did in fact figure it out
Point 2 is wrong. It’s very easy to basic stuff. I’d argue it’s easier than Windows, which is a convoluted mess. You’re just used to it being shit.
Point 1, maybe. The fact you just keep repeating “particular hardware or software that does not work” without actually giving an example shows you’re talking out of your ass though. Sure, there are a few cases, but not many anymore. Most, if not all, of those cases can be handled by a VM though.
I can’t agree with you tbh. It depends on the distro. On Windows I can basically one-click install OpenMW and it Just Works™. I can’t even play it on my distro because for whatever reason it’s broken. I ended up having to flat out purge it and install the daily build to get it working. Maybe it works better on other distros, idk. Worked fine until my distro updated some months ago. When I was still running Lubuntu I had to build it from source to get it to work.
This is the nature of open source and decentralized platforms. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But if anyone expects the mainstream to adopt it when ease of use has been the name of the game for the last 20 years then they’re mistaken. As good as Linux has gotten, there are still kinks that need worked out before the average user will adopt it. One step towards that is government adoption. This will almost certainly lay out a stable baseline standard that can be built off of for a more coherent experience. I can see Linux competing with Windows provided it comes up to par on UX.
Having an app store is easier than expecting people to download things from the internet, just because your distro fucked up doesn’t mean this isn’t generally a win for linux.
i work IT, software fails to install ALL THE TIME on windows for all kinds of reasons
You keep implying Windows has ease-of-use on its side. That is just blatantly not true. I don’t know a Windows user that hasn’t had to edit registries, for example, and that’s a pain in the ass. Windows is just a piece of shit that people stepped in so long ago they stopped smelling it. They don’t pay attention to how bad it is to work with because “that’s just the way it is.” The one benefit is the software mentioned above (with just a vague notion of “some software” when the vast majority is fine), though again most work with a VM if Wine isn’t enough. Support is an issue of getting users there though. If people keep assuming that what you’re saying is true they’ll believe you and not try it. If they switch the software developers will start targeting Linux.
Playing old games is also often really painful on Windows, and requires a lot of hacks. On Linux I’ve had a very good time with that honestly. Maybe I’ve just gotten lucky, but Wine with Proton has made the experience with old games pretty easy.
Sampling bias. The people you know are likely more technologically inclined than the average user. Really, effectively anyone who uses Linux is simply due to the nature of the thing. To people like you and me, the average user is a literal idiot. And that’s something we forget. The average user doesn’t ever have to finagle with registries and probably doesn’t even know they exist. Hell, they probably don’t even know how to change their default browser from Edge. And don’t get me wrong, Windows is a piece of shit. But it’s undeniable that its standardized protocols and coherent ecosystem make it easier for the average person. I do concede that this is due in part to software developers targeting Windows primarily, but I don’t see a world where Linux is used by the masses unless some distro sees adoption and standardization by some larger body.
As for old games, if I played Morrowind via Steam it would work fine but the reason I play OpenMW is because it modernizes the engine. 1080p isn’t even possible in vanilla. 100% improvement imo, but it causes me problems on occasion.
You’re experiencing more delusions. 99.9% of Windows users wouldn’t even know what that is.
Again you’re asking me to write out what is a list a mile long. I’m not doing that.
I will give you one example though. I went to download GrayJay yesterday. I got the file. I have no idea what to do with it. Because there are a dozen types of files for Linux and all of them have to be installed differently. I got a folder. I know from years of experience how to install .deb, .rpm, flatpak and appimages, this folder has 398457 files in it and none of them are those. That’s not even getting into how a lot of Linux software, you’re expected to know how to compile the fuckin thing yourself…
You know how to install programs on windows? You download the .exe, double click the file and it installs itself, every time.
You know how to install programs on Mac? You click download on the .dmg, double click the downloaded file and it installs itself, every time.
It looks like GrayJay only has an android application, with a desktop one in testing. I’m assuming you have to compile that yourself because it’s in testing. You aren’t supposed to be using it if you can’t compile it from source. Just run the android one in an emulator if you need it on desktop. That’s the same thing you’ll need to do on Windows.
Yeah… You have to go to their website, hope it’s the real one, download the .exe and install it. Then to update it you have to do the same thing. On Linux you just tell your package manager to install it and then you’re done forever. It’ll keep it updated and you never have to think about it. The fact Windows apps are required to check online for updates and then you have to open it in a browser and download and install it yourself is the most garbage experience. You’re just used to it.
Weird, you don’t have to compile the Windows or Mac versions…? 🤷♂️
…why wouldn’t it be the “real one” on their website?
…no, they update themselves? Have you just never used anything other than Linux? It’s hard to imagine how you would not know this unless you hadn’t.
Other than the pop-ups telling you you need to update every 5 minutes?
From their FAQ: “Do you have a desktop version? A desktop version is actively in the works, and already in internal testing phases.”
It looks like you can download the pre-built applications for all of them though, including Linux. You probably just need to use chmod to let your system know it’s allowed to execute it.
I meant the website.
No they don’t… They tell you if there’s an update and then you have to do it.
Mine doesn’t. I’m on Garuda. It just has an icon on the task bar.
Yes, I am aware. I did not argue that is isn’t for testing. I said you didn’t need to compile it for Mac or Windows, because it’s not expected of you to have a CS degree to install it.
WTF is chmod? Execute what? How can you not see that this is a problem?
LOL I love it when people get offended because someone disagrees with them and then try to put forward their experience as if it’s a fact. I didn’t repeat anything. I said it literally 1 time. You expect me to sit here and list the dozens of hardware configurations that I’ve personally used that have conflicts with Linux? Hell anything with an Nvidia GPU (which is the vast majority of GPUs in existence) is an exercise in software engineering just to get it functional.
Linux Mint is very simple to use these days.
Ubuntu is even easier. If we’re trying to convert windows users on ease we really should be sending them the beginners kit
Mint is Ubuntu, minus controversial Canonical stuff, plus an extra layer of polish and a very nice DE that is Windows-like out of the box.
That depends entirely on what you’re trying to do.
Most things work without hiccups.
Once again, that’s fine so long as you don’t need the things that don’t work.