I’m Canadian and Trump hysteria is only gonna hurt the conservatives and helo the ndp, the lib party is dead in the water as far as public opinion goes. This is gonna make things easier for the NDP cause we can literally point to America and say ‘look where it got them, we have a viable third party’

I think we can use this to put the nail in the coffin of arguments about stalling or harm reduction. I think even people who find that convincing as a concept would have to concede that they’ve ridden that horse as far as it can carry them. It seems self evident that this is not a working strategy at this point.

So if you’re talking to a progressive/lib ask them what their plan was once they stalled as long as they could. Because they have.

Texts with my lib dad

lmao AOCIA is already on live breaking out the crocodile tears she perfected during Trumps first term.

-Can’t blame third parties, the margins are too big and they wouldn’t have mattered in a single state.
-Can’t blame non-voters, voter turnout was relatively high.
-Can’t blame the Electoral College, Trump won the popular vote by almost twice the difference that Hillary has in 2016.
-Can’t blame it on people being ignorant of the ramifications, Trump had already been president for 4 years, he was the presumptive nominee all along, and throughout election season he actually polled higher than his favorability when he left office.
-Can’t blame corruption or voting machines, the last week of polling had Trump ahead, and the exit polling lines up with the results.
The only thing the Democrats have to blame is themselves, for running a bad campaign with an inferior candidate and striking out on a softball.

A close friend of mine was remarking in the last few weeks how the Democrats had pivoted from the “weird” messaging, which seemed to be working, back to the “he’s dangerous and unstable and a threat to democracy” messaging, which they knew from experience did not have much of an effect. In fact, from exit polls, out of people who said “democracy in this country is threatened” or prioritized a candidate’s capacity to do the job, a clear majority supported Trump! This is yet another damning piece of evidence that suggests that Democrats were actively not doing what they could to win the election. Either they prioritized fundraising at the expense of outcome, or they actually threw it.

Also, Allan Lichtman BTFO.

I think this fits:

Make some slide decks

You should organize your thoughts into slide decks that you can use to keep you organized and have evidence on hand to make your point, instead of having to scrounge up a screenshot from your downloads folder when you need it.

Socialist education is complex in the imperial core. You kinda need to understand like 8-12 different concepts at once before it all clicks (and even then someone may not fully agree at that point, it just starts making sense). Slides will help you lay all that out, and that sort of structure will make it easy for someone to digest as well, since you’ll be able to specify what you will talk about when. Fewer tangents cause you can say “we are gonna talk about that coming up”, so you can stay focused.

Your own arguments will sharpen up. There’s definitely some lazy shit that’s propagated on Hexbear/Twitter, and it’ll start to become obvious where you have weak points when you start to structure your thoughts into a slide deck.

Get to the conversation

Trying to get a couple of people to sit down and take a lecture from you is borderline cringy, however the point is that right now, liberals are ready to learn. It shouldn’t be hard to bring them to

“we agree on a lot: Trump bad and Democrats offer nothing except losing to Republicans, We need to do more about it.”

followed by

“We’ve talked about socialism a bit in our conversation, but socialism is really a complex topic that it’s taken me years to get a grasp on, it would be cool if we could sit down sometime and I can share what I know. I want to get us on the same page so we can start working on some political decisions together.”.

These real life discussions will make you razor sharp in a way that posting online can not. Keep it interesting, add a bit of humor, and make it look nice. You should be able to educate people that you want to work with using this resource you craft for yourself (it’s ideal to develop the slides yourself).

People do not actually want to educate themselves, and if you aren’t doing it, CNN and the NYT are instead.

For anyone talking with trans friends or loved ones, here’s a good resource @marcie@lemmy.ml prepared.

Ultimately the fault lies in Harris and democratic leadership who were in charge of the campaign. Harris got like 10 million fewer votes than Biden and you can’t blame that on any one group. They made the conscious decisions that led them to have only a few million more votes than Hillary got almost a decade ago.

If someone is hell bent on a certain race/ethnicity let them know it can’t purely be black or Latino voters fault if this is a majority white country. Are these people going to vote scold white people for sitting out or voting wrong? Democrats seem to lash out against their supposed allies more than the apathetic whites. They just write off the disengaged and target the apparently 20% of African American men that voted for Trump this time. Most of them still voted for Harris and if they went against voting for a black Democrat then she had to have a terrible campaign since that is one of the most loyal voting blocks in the United States.

Also, important to remember that Hispanics/Latinos aren’t a coherent group within the United States. Some are fifth generation jet ski dealers that don’t know Spanish and some are recent citizens who work as day laborers and need their ballot to be in Spanish. There’s too much variety to tie them together like can be done with other groups.

There has been a silent protest voter class ignored by mainstream reporting, tabulations, and analysis that can be found hidden within ballot reader error rates. These voters are casting ballots with no presidential candidate, but potentially ballot questions and down ballot votes filled in. They are consciously abstaining from all candidates for president and represent a active but non participating voter. There must be a reason these people cast a vote for no one right? Because they’re not “selfishly voting 3rd party” after all, and not voting for their “unicorn” candidate. The only conclusion is that no one is winning these people over with their policies at the federal level, and know local races matter to them more.

I’ve been trying to figure out how to innoculate/poison the rhetoric in use that gets people to go along with whatever liberal/conservative talking heads set as an agenda for discourse.

Deconstructing rhetoric, analysis of media narratives - “media literacy” - more generally. I need a really fast way to read people into that frame such that they are immediately deonstructing narratives as soon as they feel empowered to do so.

I basically want to utterly snuff out the average person’s credulity towards people who are seeking power or modelling behavior from a highly visible place.

In order for things to get better, people have to have the tools they need to distrust power. That needs to be paramount, over anything else. Once you have people going “oh wow that’s kinda bullshit” rather than uncritically entering a receptive state and parroting what the guy on their screen told them to say and think, a lot of the work will just get done on its own

We really need to be poisoning the rhetorical space as much as possible. I need something that devalues propaganda the same way capital is trying to use AI to devalue art. I need something that poisons the dataset.

Maybe this isnt the place to have this discussion, but I think it would be great to make these mega threads a regular thing. We have a lot of work to do, people to radicalize, etc.

It begins now.

Is there a way to force liberals to reckon with all the stuff they just stopped caring about the day Biden became president? Like the camps of migrants? A lot of them went full border wall with Biden. Now they’re probably going to start caring again.

One step closer to revolution. Only time will tell if it’s a fascist one

When you run on the status quo, and the status quo sucks, people are gonna turn to whoever manages to present themselves as an alternative.

When you run to the right, and the people who like right-wing policies already have a party giving them the policies they want, they’re not gonna switch parties, and you’re just going to alienate the parts of your base/coalition that are affected by those policies.

Not an effortpost but I think those are two simple, straightforward responses to anyone being like, “How could this possibly happen?”

I’m also running around countering any “she lost because she’s a woman” takes with with Tammy Baldwin in WI and Elissa Slotkin in MI winning despite their states going to Trump, which are two invaluable rhetorical data points, imo.