I know this question will sound silly to some, but suppose a group of people in a low key third world country decide to make their own commune. They work together to build up farming and industry purely based on their own need, and slowly expand to accomodate their needs.
I understand Communes are viewed as ineffective, but a commune like this would be meant to grow, not just remain isolated. It would inspire communes in other areas, and it would aim to expand.
I see a couple of issues with this:
- not all countries can do this. For example, Palestinians living in Palestine will suffer trying to do this. But most countries can, right?
- it will only benefit the tiny group of people within proximity to the commune. But the commune can 1) expand and 2) inspire communes in other locations
- some needs are hard for a small commune to make, such as computer chip manufacturing, and other things they will need to get from the non commune world
But still, I can’t see this as less than a good step forward?
I see it as a step towards more communes however there’s no political change there at any level of government.
A “low key third world country” has to industrialize in some way to add value to their production and to get benefits of scale. Are these communes going to be able to compete with private industry who probably have access to greater funding and government protection?
It could be a stepping stone for better political change. You have to start somewhere, and right now the state is way too powerful. If a revolution does start, the commune can act as a safety net for revolutionaries, and possibly supply the revolutionaries with what they need.
I agree that it has to industrialize. Does it have to compete with private industry from the get-go? The commune’s goal in the beginning is to build up its ability to satisfy the needs of its members, and the industry will build up slowly. No need to compete with private industry.
I think there IS a need to compete. You have to produce more than just subsistence. Without any goods to trade, this hypothetical third world commune will have very little economic growth.
Hence the need to be competitive with other producers in the marketplace (which could be private industry). If private industry can produce the same goods far cheaper than the commune then it’s tough for that commune to make money. No/low income means there can be very little industrial build up with no funding to invest in more infrastructure, equipment or resources.
This is why I mentioned political power. Government can support that industrialization process. e.g. directly providing funds, building infrastructure, creating laws that bring foreign capital. etc.
Why is trade necessary? Is it because the commune would not be able to produce everything it needs and wants? What if it can cover all needs and good enough portion of the wants?
Correct. It’s wants would exceed what it can produce. It can trade the excess of what it produces for other goods and services.
Self sufficiency is difficult at a commune level. Just access to healthcare is a need.
We can see this already in real world. Don’t even worry about the commune aspect. A less developed country has lower access to healthcare, education, etc. To develop they have to have something valuable to trade.
I’m not an expert in communes, nor the type of associations one would have with that. But I think an important question grounded in analysis would be to ask yourself why it is that communes have come and failed in America or elsewhere and why certain ones lasted so long.
Most importantly; how would having a communist ideology prevent that collapse that seems inevitable for these insular projects?
From my extremely limited familiarity with the communes I’ve read about, including in the Americas, it seems like their goal is just an escape plan that has no aspiration for overthrowing global capitalism or growth. What I’m speaking about is the opposite. It is not meant to be insular. The commune’s goal would be to grow, inspire other communes, and organize them together.
If and when the armed struggle initiates, it’ll be in a much better position with the existence of communes that could be the manufacturing arm of the revolution.
Why shouldn’t it compete with private industry (and in doing so, promote its own ideal of locally-owned, communally-organized industry)? Why, especially in developing (ie. colonized) countries, should the focus be on a limited commune’s development rather than promoting industrial and economic development in the broader region within a healthier framework than that of private capital?
The goal is to produce what the members of the commune need. If that can be produced locally, I don’t see a need to compete.
If I understood you correctly (sorry English isn’t my native), you’re asking why only serve the limited number of members of the commune, and not other people in the same region not part of the commune.
If so, the commune would have a goal to expand. It would promote people to join it, participate, and then it can cover the needs of more and more. Growth is part of the plan.
There’s no need to step on local industries’ toes (without good reason), sure. But if it is not produced locally, or if what production exists locally is not locally-owned, I don’t see why competition should only be fair game, but beneficial (for the broader society and the collective/commune itself).
And as for this, that’s what I was asking, yes. And if the commune remains solely a commune and confined to that framework, it could expand, sure, but wouldn’t it only ever remain an insular, “petri dish” of a social experiment? Its expansion would be arbitrarily restrained, and it would not be promoting systemic change (or acquiring the means to promote such change), and it would not likely have the means to benefit the broader society (which it would be more or less built away and in relative isolation from).
It would not be a bad thing, to create such a commune all the same. But such a commune would not exactly be a “starting point” as described in the title here- at least, it would not be a “starting point” for anything other than the creation of more communes, which so long as they retained the same structural limitations, would have little impact outside of their small circles, and would be vulnerable to the broader capitalist society’s possible predations (should they get large and developed enough as you describe) due to lacking political power.