And why grinding shouldn’t exist. No, I will not stop, I can’t sleep.
Playing Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis on GBA has me thinking about this again: it absolutely blows me away to this day that I played a huge amount of Tactics Ogre(TO) on PS1 but could not get past the battle in Dorter where you see the swordsman guy. Got decimated by blackmages and archers. That’s still the tutorial. You can’t even buy gear for classes other than Squires yet. And I was at the same level as the enemy.
I got roadblocked like this in Tacitcs Ogre: Wheel of Fortune on PSP as well, because really what the hell? What on earth was wrong with Training?
So I get that the Training Battles from original TO are a cludge of a thing. Yes, it is kind of weird to set the game down and let it play itself to level your units. Probably shouldn’t exist, sure. The removal of this in every subsequent Yasumi Matsuno tactics game really shows off exactly why it was there, though: grinding in an SRPG is fuckin stupid. Quick question: how good would XCOM be if a story mission wiped your squad in two turns and told you to go grind random worldmap battles? Not fun! This is what Final Fantasy Tactics, (FFT) and also TO Wheel of Fortune and Reborn, actually expect you to do, apparently. Every time I have asked, this is the answer: grind random battles.
Grinding is kind of stupid in any game, “you must advance to arbitrary number to continue”. Some of it happens because a designer can’t really predict how a player will level, but whatever, it’s something to be done away with. Turn based RPGs that don’t suck commonly integrate Auto Battle so that if you need to grind it’s quicker. And turn based RPGs usually have battles that can go by in a minute or two.
Battles were already kind of slow in TO, but in FFT they’re excruciating. Lots of stuff is slower, with bigger fancier animations, the camera always swings around, so on. It makes a nine-tile magic spell in TO look fast. So immediately this is a dumb waste of time that takes forever, even before the XP curve forces you to do several. But also, that early in the game, when you only have squires, FFT is shockingly rude. I didn’t take any deaths but I came close many times. Battling those dumb forest creatures is a real slog at that point, which is why I gave up last time. Like, fuck any game that tells me to go grind tedious battles for literal hours before the tutorial is up.
It also doesn’t help that I think every single other element of FFT is worse than TO, that’s just a bonus. Why is gear locked to classes? Is it such a problem if a Knight uses a shortsword, for fuck’s sake? It limits your class choices to whatever is available in the shop basically. I thought switching my Squires to Knights might help me through that battle, but oops no gear at all!
Why is the squad size six tops and as small as four? Pokemon parties are larger. I can’t do anything, how can I split my forces for instance to do a basic pincer when each formation has at max three guys? Every early battle is “turtle up around spawn and let the enemy come to you”, riveting.
Why are the battlefields so small? 16×16? The GBA game has battlefields that are larger. Hell, TO has battlefields that are larger… I miss the huge castle ramparts with pockmarked fields leading up to a drawbridge, actually organic believable environments. (For an isometric game) There’s never any room to get away… As a result of this movement and attack ranges are limited heavily as well.
Why is healing a throwable? I know there’d be healing magic later but having early game healing be dependent on throwing potions is just hateful. I miss Kachua, who limps you through early TO with extreme range heals, to help get your game started.
Why is magic awful? What are those mages actually doing? They put their hands up, a marker appears at Ramza’s feet, and in a turn he goes up in flames. What kinda shit is this? How the hell do you counter that?
Why are Matsuno and the gang so obsessee with SKILLS? Take away a core mechanic, make it a SKILL!!! In TO everyone could throw stones, block hits, counterattack. Now all of that has to be specced into with skills? Which are classlocked? I really hate this to death, seriously. When every unit can counterattack, battles are deadly and you have to consider the counter before going in for a move. I miss it, now you can just bonk half the time.
Why is Wait Turn gone? This is a niche one but Wait Turn is so cool because your character’s class, stats and equipment all affect it, so while it’s innate to an extent you can influence it, move faster. Have lightweight, weakly-armoured high-speed killsquads. FFT’s turns are just decided by speed like it’s Shining Force II, which is fine I guess I just miss Wait Turn.
The end result is that I have the single dumbest take online: Tactics Ogre Good, Final Fantasy Tactics bad. I hear it said constantly that FFT is designed for beginners, but how? I have played many tactics games (Tactics Ogre, XCOM EU and 2, Fire Emblem Awakening and Fates, Shining Force Sword of Hajya, Valkyria Chronicles) and somehow I get stopped like five hours in. Real video game???
Even though a Skyrim or a Sonic Adventure 2 or an Assassin’s Creed 1 are way worse games that are way worse to play, and I really do not like them at all, Final Fantasy Tactics frustrates me infinitely. It really makes my lil gamer peabrain angry. It’s such a slam-dunk idea: graft the Final Fantasy job system onto Tactics Ogre. Awesome! But they seem to have fucked it up in basically every possible way and now I have this game that I hate. Grrrr, why?
How do I enjoy FFT?
FFT is literally my favorite game, and all of the aspects of it that you hate, I love.
if squad sizes were larger, battles would stretch on into eternity.
Same reason, although it might have to do with hardware limitations of PSX also.
Probably to support early game, Chemists have a smaller move stat than other classes, and so wouldn’t be able to keep up with Squires that need healing if they’re required to be in 1 tile range.
I’m sorry, are you sure you’re playing the right game? Magic is so busted in FFT I sometimes don’t use it just to increase the challenge.
Sorry, I don’t understand your point here? If you use Wait and you don’t move or act, then it preserves a substantial amount of that character’s CT, and their next turn comes up sooner. Using move consumes 30CT if I recall correctly, and Act the other 70.
Nice, I dig it!!
Well it’s good they cut them down I guess, but Ogre has hourlong battles that fuck, Idk.
Yeah a ram limitation IIRC. I think it’s a huge mistake though, maybe the game should have stayed 2D. I do like the increased focus on height though, Ogre doesn’t really have overhangs or cliffs due to its fixed perspective, jumping on stuff is super cool.
In Ogre you get Kachua early game who just has a single target Heal spell with like a 10×10 range… better, no physics shenanigans…
When I say “awful”, I mean “blackmages are cooking me alive and my best strat is literally a kamikaze run right at them so they burn themselves too”! I hate!
As I say, Wait Turn is the system in Tactics Ogre that dictates battle order. Each character has a set amount of WT points that all tick down as the battle goes on. Whoever’s WT reaches zero first can do an action. This means you can level up or swap classes or change gear to alter turn order, which fucks. I explain it more in this chonky boi. So CT is kind of like WT but not as good.
I think maybe the struggle you’re having with FFT is in large part due to your comparison of the two games. Let go of trying to hold one up to the other and you might have a better time :)
Yeah but also no. None of these goofy systemic problems are dealbreakers, they bug me but I would have kept playing. Knight of Lodis is also technically worse than Ogre in many ways but I enjoy it a lot. It’s the fucked-sideways difficulty curve and bizarre progression/grinding that kills FFT dead for me.