• Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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    3 months ago

    i don’t know what you’d call groups that migrated to palestine and live in the zionist state other than zionist? just settlers? the great many orthodox outside israel it makes sense to not call zionist but it gives me some pause talking about groups inside israel. shrug-outta-hecks

    but i didn’t mean to imply orthodox sects were exclusive to ashkenazi ancestry, just that it came from eastern europe so its presence in palestine is related to zionism, even though its more diverse now

      • TheDeed [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        I don’t have hard numbers for you, but there hasn’t been large scale haredi migration to Israel since around the 50s, that is, 70-80 years ago. Most of the Haredi in Israel now were born there, we’re talking about the kids and grandkids of settlers for the most part. Haredi tend to kinda stay in place, see New York.

    • TheDeed [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      3 months ago

      Zionists settling and colonizing Israel of course is pretty recent, but huge chunk of the haredi there were born there at this point as I mentioned in another comment. We’re talking about the kids and grandkids of settlers for the most part. Most of the people going to Israel these days though are reform/conservative Jews.

      I’m from the USA. There’s plenty of white people here descended from settlers that I wouldn’t call settlers themselves, although settler culture is a still pervasive through the legacy of white supremacy. But yeah, it’d be disingenuous if I said oh every white person in the PSL believes in manifest destiny or something. For lack of a better analogy.

      What I mean to say by all this is I only commented because it was an overgeneralization, anti-zionism is a defining characteristic of haredi Jews so it was just a little jarring to read. Certainly they aren’t anti-zionists for the same reasons as you or I, but still

      • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        For lack of a better analogy

        i actually think that is a pretty good analogy, embracing a genocidal ideology of manifest destiny/zionism is different from simply being in a settler state but articulating it takes more specificity.