All Pizza is bread with toppings. If it’s not a pizza because it uses the wrong type of bread, so is every single american version of pizza, none of which use a neapolitan dough.
You’re trying too hard to be contrarian now - I said “all pizza is bread with toppings”, not “all bread with toppings is pizza”. Open faced turkey sandwiches are assembled after the constituent parts have been cooked, rather than the bread and toppings being cooked together.
You’re not going to terrorise any italians by claiming pizza isn’t italian, they’re just going to think you’re a stupid american, and possibly a redditor when you try to “well acshully” them. If you want to terrorise italians you need to suggest heavily preprocessed foods as pizza toppings, ask how they make their spaghetti bolognese, or yell the names of pasta dishes at them when they’re speaking in Italian.
your not going to convince any italians that “sicilian pizza” is pizza either anymore than your silly criteria that defines most focaccia as “pizza” theyll laugh you out of the pizzaria with their silly hand gestures
also “all pizza is bread with toppings” and “all bread with toppings is pizza” is the same construction because it supposes “bread+toppings=pizza” and it doesnt matter if you restructure it as “pizza=bread+toppings” its the same equation einstein
finally i said ill be insufferable about this and you thought this was a motherfucking game?
your not going to convince any italians that “sicilian pizza” is pizza
I mean I first encountered it being sold by sicilians (a type of Italian) as pizza, and then later had it over in Italy courtesy of a Bolognan (another type of Italian) friend, so I feel pretty confident saying you’re only right because they’re already convinced it’s pizza.
also “all pizza is bread with toppings” and “all bread with toppings is pizza” is the same construction because it supposes “bread+toppings=pizza” and it doesnt matter if you restructure it as “pizza=bread+toppings” its the same equation einstein
Oh come on, you understood how this works three comments ago. It’s the entire premise of the article, that neopolitan is a subset of Italian. You know, all squares are rectangles but all rectangles aren’t squares. This is what I mean by trying too hard, you’re not being insufferable over technicalities, you’re just being contrarian and making yourself look ignorant as a result.
finally i said ill be insufferable about this and you thought this was a motherfucking game?
Of course I think it’s a game, why do you think I’m explaining how to get good?
yes the only reason your italian friends think this is because it was called pizza in america and sent back to italy and therefore is not italian checkmate
and you never address how youve now defined most focaccia as pizza, which you have, and no italian would say focaccia is pizza. additionally the bread can be pre-cooked and still be pizza they sell pre-cooked pizza bread in the store all the time people just put toppings on it and bam, its pizza. a baked flatbread with sauce and cheese on it is pizza precooked or not it doesnt matter your definition is a open faced turkey sandwich counts if you dont like that then reevaluate your definition, bubs
lastly as someone else pointed out the pizza itself goes back much further than italy it goes back all the way to persia which still makes it not italian
This is exactly why I told you to get good, American exceptionalism is embarrassing rather than insufferable. Everyone else has been around and doing stuff without you for thousands of years, get over it and find something to be technically correct about, claiming things for america just makes you look like a completely average american.
you never address how youve now defined most focaccia as pizza
Why do you think I was talking about subsets in the last comment? You have to understand that being insufferable involves outwitting your opponents, so demonstrating you can’t actually differentiate between having features and only having those features is going to make your job a lot harder. Just look at this picture - the big circle is all bread with toppings, and the smaller one is pizza. I hope you can remember enough of your primary school maths lessons that I don’t have to keep explaining.
And then once you’ve relearnt basic maths you can move plain foccacia back under pizza and look up rome’s pizza bianco.
the pizza itself goes back much further than italy it goes back all the way to persia
Well thank christ somebody knows some technically correct information (as you say, not you) - yes, as I’m sure will greatly surprise the average American, bread is old as fuck and so is putting things on it. I mean it wasn’t called pizza, but it was bread with toppings on it (even through we just went over… nevermind).
Are you sure you’re cut out for insufferability? It took a lot of guidance from me before you found a technically correct statement, and it wasn’t even yours - you had to go back to find a comment from someone else explaining the mistake in order to find something to be insufferable about. You’ve got the contrarian part down, but there’s no knowledge base to pull from so you’re making foolish mistakes. I mean, really, “bread + toppings = pizza”? Trying to talk for members of a continent you’ve never been near? You’d make a great reactionary.
look, first of all the quote thing style of reddit fedora wearing liberal debate-lord is cringe so thats a big strike against everything you are saying as a baseline and really deserves to be disregarding outright as being lib so consider yourself blessed to even be responded to
secondly, just because your bolognese friend took pity on your weak american mind and told you they were serving you pizza proves nothing except their view of your intelligence
lastly, you can squirm away from your own definition all you like but you engage in exactly what the article about pizza being american tackles before it even gets out of hand - pizza is a specific thing, not just bread and toppings as you defined it. it is a specific thing of which its current form was refined in america and re-exported to italy, ie its not just bread and toppings which you now run from at top speed because you realized you done fucked up. so if that new criteria is what you want to go by then its still american by that definition, too. and while we are on that no, the concept of alone pizza doesnt go back to persia, the etymology word itself does as well as it is complex as was pointed out elsewhere so you are still wrong on that account as well, they had a base of the word which meant a form of bread pie with toppings. and the origin of pizza in naples didnt even have toppings, it was more like native american frybread than anything just bread cooked in an oven in olive oil
sicilian “pizza” is sfincione - a topped focaccia
so yeah, i can still be insufferable
All Pizza is bread with toppings. If it’s not a pizza because it uses the wrong type of bread, so is every single american version of pizza, none of which use a neapolitan dough.
an open face turkey sandwich is not pizza but if that is what you are arguing id love to terrorize italians with this, too
You’re trying too hard to be contrarian now - I said “all pizza is bread with toppings”, not “all bread with toppings is pizza”. Open faced turkey sandwiches are assembled after the constituent parts have been cooked, rather than the bread and toppings being cooked together.
You’re not going to terrorise any italians by claiming pizza isn’t italian, they’re just going to think you’re a stupid american, and possibly a redditor when you try to “well acshully” them. If you want to terrorise italians you need to suggest heavily preprocessed foods as pizza toppings, ask how they make their spaghetti bolognese, or yell the names of pasta dishes at them when they’re speaking in Italian.
your not going to convince any italians that “sicilian pizza” is pizza either anymore than your silly criteria that defines most focaccia as “pizza” theyll laugh you out of the pizzaria with their silly hand gestures
also “all pizza is bread with toppings” and “all bread with toppings is pizza” is the same construction because it supposes “bread+toppings=pizza” and it doesnt matter if you restructure it as “pizza=bread+toppings” its the same equation einstein
finally i said ill be insufferable about this and you thought this was a motherfucking game?
I mean I first encountered it being sold by sicilians (a type of Italian) as pizza, and then later had it over in Italy courtesy of a Bolognan (another type of Italian) friend, so I feel pretty confident saying you’re only right because they’re already convinced it’s pizza.
Oh come on, you understood how this works three comments ago. It’s the entire premise of the article, that neopolitan is a subset of Italian. You know, all squares are rectangles but all rectangles aren’t squares. This is what I mean by trying too hard, you’re not being insufferable over technicalities, you’re just being contrarian and making yourself look ignorant as a result.
Of course I think it’s a game, why do you think I’m explaining how to get good?
yes the only reason your italian friends think this is because it was called pizza in america and sent back to italy and therefore is not italian checkmate
and you never address how youve now defined most focaccia as pizza, which you have, and no italian would say focaccia is pizza. additionally the bread can be pre-cooked and still be pizza they sell pre-cooked pizza bread in the store all the time people just put toppings on it and bam, its pizza. a baked flatbread with sauce and cheese on it is pizza precooked or not it doesnt matter your definition is a open faced turkey sandwich counts if you dont like that then reevaluate your definition, bubs
lastly as someone else pointed out the pizza itself goes back much further than italy it goes back all the way to persia which still makes it not italian
This is exactly why I told you to get good, American exceptionalism is embarrassing rather than insufferable. Everyone else has been around and doing stuff without you for thousands of years, get over it and find something to be technically correct about, claiming things for america just makes you look like a completely average american.
Why do you think I was talking about subsets in the last comment? You have to understand that being insufferable involves outwitting your opponents, so demonstrating you can’t actually differentiate between having features and only having those features is going to make your job a lot harder. Just look at this picture - the big circle is all bread with toppings, and the smaller one is pizza. I hope you can remember enough of your primary school maths lessons that I don’t have to keep explaining.
And then once you’ve relearnt basic maths you can move plain foccacia back under pizza and look up rome’s pizza bianco.
Well thank christ somebody knows some technically correct information (as you say, not you) - yes, as I’m sure will greatly surprise the average American, bread is old as fuck and so is putting things on it. I mean it wasn’t called pizza, but it was bread with toppings on it (even through we just went over… nevermind). Are you sure you’re cut out for insufferability? It took a lot of guidance from me before you found a technically correct statement, and it wasn’t even yours - you had to go back to find a comment from someone else explaining the mistake in order to find something to be insufferable about. You’ve got the contrarian part down, but there’s no knowledge base to pull from so you’re making foolish mistakes. I mean, really, “bread + toppings = pizza”? Trying to talk for members of a continent you’ve never been near? You’d make a great reactionary.
look, first of all the quote thing style of reddit fedora wearing liberal debate-lord is cringe so thats a big strike against everything you are saying as a baseline and really deserves to be disregarding outright as being lib so consider yourself blessed to even be responded to
secondly, just because your bolognese friend took pity on your weak american mind and told you they were serving you pizza proves nothing except their view of your intelligence
lastly, you can squirm away from your own definition all you like but you engage in exactly what the article about pizza being american tackles before it even gets out of hand - pizza is a specific thing, not just bread and toppings as you defined it. it is a specific thing of which its current form was refined in america and re-exported to italy, ie its not just bread and toppings which you now run from at top speed because you realized you done fucked up. so if that new criteria is what you want to go by then its still american by that definition, too. and while we are on that no, the concept of alone pizza doesnt go back to persia, the etymology word itself does as well as it is complex as was pointed out elsewhere so you are still wrong on that account as well, they had a base of the word which meant a form of bread pie with toppings. and the origin of pizza in naples didnt even have toppings, it was more like native american frybread than anything just bread cooked in an oven in olive oil