I’ve been having a number of conversations on Hexchan recently trying to make sense of their politics. The most common instance of their hateful hypocrisy I’ve encountered is this constant assurance that they support trans people while immediately attacking and dog piling and trans people who point out that the situation would be much worse under Trump.

The hexchanners who aren’t actively Russian trolls seem to be little more than useful idiots for conservatives, minimizing the damage they do to vulnerable populations and engaging in high school level pettiness and hate.

https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/1879291

  • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]@hexbear.net
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    Throwback to when Hillary supporters accused Bernie voters of switching to Trump in the general, and when they ran the numbers, finding that Bernie primary voters had one of the highest party loyalty rates, and that an alarming number of Hillary primary voters backed McCain in the general in '08.

    Edit: Wait, this is the comment I make that ratios the OP and becomes my most upvoted comment of all time? How does that make sense?

    • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      All these anti trans laws are already happening under DaBiden

      The best summary looks to me like:

      • State-level Republicans are aggressively passing anti-trans bills
      • State-level Democrats are occasionally passing trans protection bills
      • National-level Republicans are banging the table for anti-trans bills
      • National-level Democrats (collectively, at least) are unable/unwilling to pass national trans protection legislation
      • A rabidly reactionary judiciary (certainly at the federal level) is eroding protections that exist, and salivating at the prospect of more damage; Democrats have no answer to this
      • Rank-and-file Republicans range from making attack helicopter jokes to genocidal jokes
      • Rank-and-file Democrats range from making attack helicopter jokes to doing meaningful work supporting trans people

      You could say much the same for abortion, too.

      There are some differences, but not nearly enough, and it’s easy to see how one person can look at this and say Dems are obviously better (focusing on state stuff, rank-and-file attitudes, proposed national legislation) while another can look at this and say whatever Dems are doing (focusing mostly on national politics and losing the judiciary) is not nearly enough.

      • kristina [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        i would just order the military extrajudicially execute transphobes with drone strikes, because i was legally authorized to drone strike US citizens that are part of terrorist movements shrug-outta-hecks

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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          “BUT BIDEN CAN’T JUST MURDER THE SUPREME COURTERINOO!”

          rage-cry

          Why? Why not? No one gave a shit when Obama was hunting down and murdering American children, why do you care when it’s a bunch of crusty old fascists?

          “BIDEN CAN’T JUST BLACK BAG MANCHIN AND SHOW HIM LIVE FEED OF HIS DAUGHTER’S CAR FROM A PREDATOR DRONE!>!!>!!”

          Why not? He can drop hellfire missiles on weddings and ambulances, slaughter hundreds of thousands of civilians in Yemen, and god knows what other atrocities, but one pharma crook is off limits? Why?

          We’re going to vote Blue in '24, and Blue isn’t going to do shit. The Democrats have always had options.

          • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            It’s a good bit, but presenting “drone strike the Supreme Court” as a legitimate option is silly.

            If you want a take along those lines but realistic, ask libs why Biden hasn’t nationalized the Texas National Guard and torn down the horrific shit we’re doing at the border.

            • Sphere [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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              It’s a bit hyperbolic, sure, but he could easily pack the court, and if Roberts refused to swear in new justices, he could have him arrested. Obama should have done something similar with Garland: when McConnell refused to have a hearing, he should have given a speech about the Senate failing to complete its duties, ordered Roberts to swear Garland in, and then arrested Roberts if he protested the move (along with any other justices who tried to be stubborn). The president has men with guns, and SCOTUS does not, full stop.

              • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                Lol packing the court is categorically different than assassinating them.

                I agree Democrats should at least be trying to do more (specifically with Obama and Garland), but it’s not as simple as you’re describing it. At minimum, what you’re describing would lose a bunch of Democratic support, and if a bunch of your own party is against you it’s ultimately not going to work. Now of course the fact that a bunch of Democrats would defect over this is itself a problem with the party, but that’s the reality of the situation. There was no one weird trick that was guaranteed to work, and there are consequences to trying and failing.

                • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  Lol packing the court is categorically different than assassinating them.

                  It’s not “assassination”, it’s targeted killing, and it’s perfectly legal and above board. The Supreme Court said so. The President gets to decide who dies and there’s no judicial review possible because it’s a “political question”.

                  At minimum, what you’re describing would lose a bunch of Democratic support, and if a bunch of your own party is against you it’s ultimately not going to work.

                  Master statesman Saddam Hussein had a solution for that specific problem. You get all your party members in a room, demand they pledge personal loyalty to you, and then force the ones who did pledge to shoot the ones that didn’t. Bam. Party discipline secured.

                  I’m not asking for much. Just for the president to exercise the same tactics to control uncooperative democratically elected governments at home that he uses abroad. Biden allegedly couldn’t do anything because Manchin and/or Sistema just couldn’t be brought to the table for some weird reason. Somehow the guy who controls the army, the intelligence aparatus, the justice department, the DEA, the IRS, and the Post couldn’t find any way to make them move even a little teeny weensie bit.

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                  See I don’t agree with this kind of thinking. You win votes by doing things, not by not doing things. Biden is letting himself be hamstrung by concerns about “los[ing] a bunch of Democratic support.”

                  All it would take to turn Manchin into a reliable ally is a little J. Edgar Hoover style blackmail–there’s no way the dude has a skeleton-free closet. And taking SCOTUS, by whatever means, would do a lot to win Dems over. Then force through statehood for DC and Puerto Rico and/or Guam, and you’ve got a solid, long-term Dem majority in the Senate. Power does not flow from a 236-year-old piece of fucking paper, and I’m sick of political discussions that continue to ignore that, as if that damn piece of paper is somehow going to maintain stability in this country over the next decade. I’m sick of Democrats being too afraid to use strongarm tactics like McConnell did, proving again and again that they don’t really care about their supposedly preferred policy outcomes at all. Yes, there are consequences for trying and failing, but there are also consequences for not trying, and thus failing by default.

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            A country that took itself seriously would’ve lined up and shot members of the GOP after Jan 6th just to prove a point

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          There could be a legal case be made for that, when the people drone striked have spoken to organized movements that are transphobic. Needs one or two executive orders before that though.

      • duderium [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        Whatever support Democrats give to trans people is nothing compared to the money they dump on the transphobic fascist police and military. The Democrats and Republicans represent the same class interests. They might sometimes talk a different way, but the policy outcomes are indistinguishable.

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          Friday, the Minnesota Senate voted to pass a House-approved bill that will prevent state courts or officials from complying with child removal requests, extraditions, arrests or subpoenas related to gender-affirming health care that a person receives or provides in Minnesota.

          Physicians who practice gender-affirming care in Minnesota, and families who’ve sought it out for their transgender children or teenagers, have said the bill will go a long way to ensure that they can continue to access treatment without fear of other states’ laws. Some have said they’ve already seen an uptick in prospective patients from states where their options have been eliminated.

          I get your point – it’s not enough – but this isn’t nothing. The article talks about people coming in from other states to take advantage of these laws, so we have evidence it’s not nothing.

          We have to understand how disconnected we look when we say “this is actually no different from Florida.” The better approach is “sure, Democrats are better, but they’re awful in 10 other ways and they will never do enough, fast enough.”

          • TawnyFroggy [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            Yeah I’m thankful I live in Communist Minnesota and would be devastated if it flipped red. Yes they are libs like the rest, and yes they will lay down and let us die when push comes to shove, but for right now I vastly prefer being allowed to get my medications and exist in public over not being able to do those things.

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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        Re: The Judiciary; Democrats mostly just let it happen. McConnnell’s project to seize control of the Judiciary was in the open for at least a decade, probably much longer but I don’t want to look it up.

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      Every Republican nominee is going to be a knock-off Trump, and every Democratic nominee is going to be a knock-off Obama.

      That’s just how it’s gonna be from here on out.

  • I sure as shit don’t feel any more safe than when Trump was in office, almost like there’s a larger societal political thing going on that’s not contingent on one person. Thanks to Biden for…

    checks notes

    saying he supports us.

  • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    Why do people act like they need to “make sense of our politics?” We’re open with our politics and we never shut up about it lol.

    We aren’t hiding anything about us being communists, anarchists, and other socialists. As much as we have divergent view points in this non-sectarian space, we’re pretty cohesive and coherent on the broad strokes.

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      The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.

      marx-war

    • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      My politics is that I’m coming for your treats. Since criticism is often seen as a direct threat against treat supply, I may as well confiscate them. xibe-check

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      They’re liberals and can’t conceive that we’re genuine. They interpret all leftist politics as childish or a trick.

      All liberals believe liberalism is simply the natural, logical final step of development. They see it as a fundamental truth like gravity. Anyone not subscribing to liberalism must either be confused or an active agent of misinformation.

      • culpritus [any]@hexbear.net
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        this is the truth of it

        they believe they are the adults in the room, and anyone to their left must be delusional or childish etc

        norm-respectable

        no wealthy and influential Democrat could ever think in this way, so you must be terrible people or ‘utopian’ etc

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          Liberals have a hard time understanding that two groups of people could have conflicting interests is how I mainly see it. They see conflict as a personal moral failure rather than situations people are sorted into.

          Capitalist and worker, colonizers and indigenous people, profit and the environment. To a liberal these aren’t fundamentally unsolvable problems based of contradiction, but rather situations that can always be mended through…I don’t know, raising awareness. Putting a cute sign in your yard.

      • MCU_H8ER2 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        All liberals believe liberalism is simply the natural, logical final step of development. They see it as a fundamental truth like gravity. Anyone not subscribing to liberalism must either be confused or an active agent of misinformation.

        Put this in the Hexbear bible.

        • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          Instead of a Bible I want a mystical Hexbear Grimoire stored in a cavern beneath a giant oak tree. After descending an inexplicable spiral staircase into the earth itself you find a wise owl, covered in shit, guardian of the ancient Hexbear tome.

          Except most of the book would just be various emojis and pictures of pig shit

      • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        Great point, as always comrade. fidel-salute

        One of the few things that get to me is when they call us childish. Its like a 200 year long intellectual tradition, but somehow we haven’t thought it through and its childish

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      It took me a while to comprehend hexbear and I almost didn’t want to bother because hexbear looks and feels like another 4chan to an outsider; I can understand where they’re coming from.

    • Tachanka [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      We’re open with our politics and we never shut up about it lol.

      “The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains.” marx-goth

  • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    This is the most terminal case of America brain I’ve ever seen. Complete myopic focus on American domestic issues as the sole criteria for politics.

    I’m unironically and genuinely happy for trans Americans that Biden and the Dems have treated them better than Trump. However, that can’t be viewed in isolation of the fact that Biden and the dems are hellbent on ratcheting political tensions with China far higher than with Trump and his trade war. Add to that the unrelenting Dem-led brinksmanship and escalation over Ukraine (which can be traced back to the Maidan Coup which happened on Obama’s watch).

    Nobody is denying that Trump did all sorts of awful shit when he was in power, but Americans need to at least acknowledge that he wasn’t constantly trying to provoke shooting wars with two nuclear great powers at the same time.

    Nobody on the left should support Trump but you at least have to recognize that Blue Man is somehow being more of a bloodthirsty warmonger than the evil fascist Red Man you hate so much.

    • AcidSmiley [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      Americans need to at least acknowledge that he wasn’t constantly trying to provoke shooting wars with two nuclear great powers at the same time.

      That’s only because Iran and Palestine aren’t nuclear powers. Go look up Trump’s policy towards them, you may learn a thing or two.

      Trump was also at least as hawkish on eastward NATO expansion and escalating the conflict with Russia to open war with an Amerikan proxy as any other US president in the last 30 years. He broke disarmament treaties, had the Donbass shelled by Ukrainian nazis, moved troops eastwards from Germany to Poland. Let’s not even get started on the 2% goal for NATO funding that popped up under Trump and has never gone away. Or how he kicked off a trade war with China. Or the travel ban for the Chinese. How gullible can you be?

      I’m sick and tired of a way too vocal minority on this site pretending that Trump is “at least better on foreign policy than the Dems” because you like his aesthetics better than Biden’s. First of all, you’re doing a liberalism. Secondly, you’re doing a lesser evilism. FUCK THAT. Thirdly, you’re ignoring that his unilateralism, just like Dubya’s before him, isn’t actual isolationism, let alone anti-imperialism, but simply works as part of a greater good cop bad cop scheme with the dems in how they treat AmeriKKKas allies abroad. The GOP shits on our governments openly to apply pressure, then after the next electoral circus show the Dems swoop in to “mend relations” again, every good little lib here in Europe loves the USA again (and then the Dems are free to blow up one of our pipelines). You cannot vote your way out of the genocidal foreign policy of the USA. It is bipartisan consensus and you’re simply falling for the RepubliKKKan ruse that gives you the illusion of “some amount of choice” on this matter.

      Let’s not even get me started on your “i support not genociding trans people BUT” reasoning up there. I have a really hard time not to start screaming at you rn, what the actual fuck am i reading there?

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        I’m sick and tired of a way too vocal minority on this site pretending that Trump is “at least better on foreign policy than the Dems”

        Yeah, this is one of the worst takes I see frequently on here. I think it’s a mix of terminally-online contrarianism and anti-lib contrarianism. It’s trolling libs with (generously) an intent to have them consider how close both parties are on foreign policy. But they mostly miss that point, because no one gets subtext and we’re staking out a bad position ourselves, so it comes across as uninformed or confusing (do these communists support Trump??).

        The good things Trump did (detente with the DPRK, attempted Syria withdrawal) are due to dumb luck and are easily undermined by NatSec ghouls/subsequent administrations. The they are offset, at least, by the bad things he did (a complete 180 on Iran, taking us to the brink of war multiple times), which were also due to dumb luck, but which are much harder to undo.

        • AcidSmiley [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          None of this will get better after the next election, regardless of who wins. The ratchet effect works both ways, there is no way to elect yourself out of imperialism.

        • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          Biden literally started a war

          The American plot to drive Ukraine away from Russia goes back at least 10 years. Our plot to stoke fascism there goes back probably 70. Biden was in office when the war popped off, but using Ukraine to antagonize Russia is one of the clearest examples of a bipartisan foreign policy consensus. Had Trump won in 2020 we’d be about where we are now on the war.

          Contrast this with Trump much more literally committing an act of war against Iran by assassinating Qasem Soleimani. This is after he tore up the U.S.-Iran nuclear deal for no reason.

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              I can see Biden taking a different stance in Ukraine, but I can also see his meeting with Zelensky as being the natural development of the situation. I definitely see Biden’s rhetoric towards China as a continuation of Trump’s, which was a lot more hostile than Obama’s (although that progression I’m guessing was also determined largely by the evolving situation/long-term interests in the area).

                • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  Provoking nuclear powers was standard operating procedure for the U.S. until detente. After a short break it again became central U.S. policy with our funding of anti-Soviet terrorists in Afghanistan. In the 90s we openly meddled in Soviet/Russian internal politics and poked the Taiwan bear.

                  This is bad, but hardly new.

                • GreatWhiteNope [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                  To understand how China views Biden’s tech sanctions, you need to read the Chinese sci fi novel Three Body Problem. This is how many people in China are looking at it.

                  Could you elaborate a little? I read the plot summary on Wikipedia and am not really getting the connection, but maybe it’s something you can only understand from actually reading.

      • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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        I don’t see a lot of people arguing that trump isn’t as bad as Biden. The argument I see (and one I subscribe to myself) is that Biden is better at being bad. They’re both horrible ghouls that would murder a child for a nickel, and they can at best be said to be indifferent about various causes.
        The argument is that Trump was incompetent. While he attempted to suppress minorites in the US he saw massive nationwide demonstrations in response. He tried to antagonize Iran, but failed to escalate the situation to anything that didn’t just make him look foolish and wasted precious US resources. Attempts like seizing Iranian tankers were widely condemned, which caused further cracks in US soft power. The world as a whole started to distance itself - The Korea’s started peace negotiations without the us, and South America turned leftward. His needling in Venezuela failed, his coup in Bolivia was overturned and the US stooge that was bolso-pain got kicked out after a short while, to be replaced with lula-bars.
        It’s not that he didn’t attempt these things, it’s that he failed. Meanwhile Biden has seen the overturning of Roe v Wade, increases in transphobic laws with little to no resistance from the general us population, and a war in Europe that put the place at its heel. He escalated tensions with china early on and elsewhere the meddling of the American empire can once again be felt.

      • Nightcastle [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        Trump said better things to a camera because he is a serial liar and will say anything that sounds good at the time regardless of previous statements or intent.

        • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          Obviously the best option is if Americans rose up to overthrow their corrupt government that only produces fascists as political candidates.

          The choice of Trump vs Biden is only a choice of open fascism and crypto fascism. It’s not reactionary to point out that at least the open fascist is reviled by America’s traditional allies and had a great amount of trouble rallying support internationally.

          I see no benefit to anyone if the EU sleepwalks into a shooting war with Russia following the crypto Fash because at least he’s civil.

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        That’s only because Iran and Palestine aren’t nuclear powers. Go look up Trump’s policy towards them, you may learn a thing or two.

        Well yeah, thats exactly my point. From a moral perspective, Trump is every bit as abominable as any other US president in every way and worse in many ways. That being as it is, the stakes of his morally repugnant behavior were much lower because he wasn’t constantly trying to ratchet up tensions with Russia and China into war, at least to the degree that Biden has. Yeah Trump treated Palestine and Iran like shit, buy nobody can reasonably say that’s going to lead to WWII.

        I agree with everything you said in your second paragraph too. Trump is an absolute peice of shit. However the current piece of shit in the White House is driving the world towards nuclear war in a way that the previous one wasn’t, at least to nearly the same degree.

        sick and tired of a way too vocal minority on this site pretending that Trump is “at least better on foreign policy than the Dems” because you like his aesthetics better than Biden’s.

        Nowhere in my post did I say or suggest that Trump is “better on foreign policy”. I called upon Dems to recognize that Biden’s foreign policy is drawing the world closer to nuclear Armageddon than those of Trump’s. I’d have absolutely no basis to say anything I’ve said if Biden’s foreign policy was substantially better than Trump’s, but like you said both parties are two sides of the same coin. You accuse me of engaging in “lesser evilism” and maybe you’re right. Shitty American foreign policy that does not lead to nuclear war is the lesser evil of shitty American foreign policy that does lead to nuclear war.

        You cannot vote your way out of the genocidal foreign policy of the USA. It is bipartisan consensus and you’re simply falling for the RepubliKKKan ruse that gives you the illusion of “some amount of choice” on this matter.

        Nowhere in my post did I mean to imply that the solution is to vote. I’m not American, my votes don’t matter anyway. Like you said, I cannot vote to opt out of my country being targeted at repeated American provocations against our sovereignty. The onus is on you, the Americans, to do something about your genocidal foreign policies.

  • ilyenkov [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    These libs are always talking about us claiming to support trans people, or using this as a shield, etc. like we aren’t trans. Their worldview can’t account for the fact that a huge amount of us are trans, and so they refuse to recognize reality. Like I think we should send transphobes to gulags, but in the lib mind this means I support Trump, because the only possible two positions are loving Trump and loving Biden.

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    My care for the differences between awful Genocidal person A and awful Genocidal person B is not great. It’s high enough that I’ll vote to try do some harm reduction, but it is barely a conversation worth having right now.

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        The actual harm reduction is [REDACTED] or organising an underground railroad to asylum states and from there to at least not actively trans exterminatory jurisdictions abroad, if the letter’s possible at all (most nations will refuse to aknowledge that human rights abuses worse enough to grant refugee status are happening in the US, even though that’s already the case in Florida, Texas or Tennessee). Doesn’t mean that the genocide will not massively accelerate under Trump, and if you are not ware of this you have no meaningful place in this conversation and should just stfu about things that your cis shit ass can comfortably ignore. If you think the person you’re replying to is a LIB, you better be prepared to also put your life on the line once push comes to shove or you’re actually worse than him. And i mean that “put your life on the line” part literally, because that’s what we’re talking about here. I’m not saying you aren’t, i can’t judge if you’re willing to fight back or to smuggle trans people out of states that will make their existence flat-out illegal, i’m obviously not asking you to fedpost here, but if you demand of my siblings in the US that they get exterminated merely because you have Biden Derangement Syndrome and not because you understand the alternatives to electoralism and what’s at stake here, then go fuck yourself.

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      Nearly all “harm reduction” arguments I see are hyperfocusing on reducing harm to Americans specifically and the harm done to foreigners doesn’t even enter into the equation half the time because the presumption is simply that Democrats are always better in every situation including foreign policy and any terrible crime a Democrat has committed in another country would have been an even worse crime if a Republican was in office

  • trump would be a distant memory and his political project would have imploded in 2016 if not for the massive support he receives daily from… online fake leftists.

    since the world is ruled entirely by a High Court of Ideas in the Mind Palace of America, when these FAKE leftists shit on biden with their memes, it’s the same as sponsoring state violence against minorities. actually it’s worse.

    biden-troll
    Biden-Harris 2024:
    Everything Else
    Is Literally A Pogrom, JACK

    • Tachanka [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      US liberals have become so hyper nationalist that they view everything to the left of the demokkkratic party as a some kind of orthodox duginist trumpist russian red fascist communist plot

      it is utterly incoherent

      • MCU_H8ER2 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        I’ve come to the conclusion that a huge % of Americans are basically illiterate. They can read and write but have a childlike understanding of most things (while thinking they are enlightened).

        • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          They have the fictional Adults In The Room that Make The Hard Decisions visible on screens and they just absorb those vibes to feel mature and smart.

      • s0ykaf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        as much as they try to delude themselves, they see the writing on the wall for america’s decline

        they’ll get more and more reactionary as time goes by and their daily consumer treats are threatened

    • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      A few days ago there was a federated liberal that accused everyone they were arguing with of being a “bot.”

      And they kept arguing with the “bots.”

      I’m not sure if we shared a definition of “bot.”