What the title says. I think there is still a long way for that to happen but i’ve been hopeful. What do you think?
I don’t think you need to have the largest following to have great value, even lemmy as it is right now feels great. I’ll actually want to dive into comment sections compared to the endless scrolling on reddit.
As long as there’s enough people using a platform for a variety of ideas and experience in topics, I think that’s good enough for me.
Personally, I don’t even want Lemmy/kbin to become Reddit 2.0.
Reddit from 10 years ago is the goal for me. Reddit has become far, far too bloated for its own good, and that line was crossed a long time ago IMO. Let’s just enjoy what we have. Let all the normies stay on Reddit, the people I wanna vibe with are here already.
The problem is that nitch communities won’t get populated unless a lot of people join. The league of legends sub is the largest video game sub on Reddit, and here it’s barely active at all.
I want it to be Reddit 2.0 in the sense that I can find active communities for specific or niche interests. Before July 1, the smallest subs that I participated in to have similar communities here were ones that had ~400k subscribers on Reddit.
The value of Reddit was never in the 1M+ communities, any content there was usually present elsewhere, and the discussions rapidly became dumpster fires. It was in the smaller dedicated subs for topics that might not have another human-centric discussion forum.
As a normie, I’d still like to vibe with you.
I agree. A vast majority of the userbase don’t mind the countless ads on Reddit or Twitter, on even FB. I think people are leaving FB because it’s not cool anymore, not because the UE has gotten worse.
I’m just glad that there now are smaller, more tailored for my preferences alternatives like Lemmy
I think you meant
UXasUser eXperience.
Big true! I’m actually spending most of my time on Lemmy down in the comment section 😁
Yes I think about Hacker News, which isn’t technically sophisticated nor does it have a massive userbase (a little less than 1 million registered accounts).
It manages to have a steady stream of content and an active commenting base
A big part of it is probably having full time paid moderators to manage their community well.
Not everyone who left Digg went to reddit, and not everyone who left Myspace went to Facebook. “Replacing” reddit should never be the goal, it should be “be better than reddit”.
If this is ever to go mainstream, what we should be concerned about is making good, high quality original content. If people see us having fun and being nice here, they’ll want to join in too.
+1 for doing your part to build a nice community!
Quick plug for my own communities:
- !nowlemmyexplain@lemmy.world for my take on ELI5
- !lemmyscareyou@lemmy.world for my take on nosleep
now why did you pop off with nowlemmyexplain. the creativity jumped out with the name
Great point about the high-quality original content. I remember before Reddit was popular, that’s where much of the original content was generated, and it would eventually be reposted on Digg. Reddit had the reputation of being tomorrow’s Digg homepage today.
Likewise, I think the way we know we’ve made it is when the reddit reposts here stop, and Lemmy posts are reposted on reddit instead.
Right, I don’t want forwards from Reddit, I want our own ecosystem.
In their current state, definitely not. There is a real bubble effect browsing on Lemmy because it feels like 1 post out of 3 is just praising the platform, but I think they’re far from ready to become mainstream. I’d say there are for now 2 major problems:
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The global instability (a lot of bugs, many third party apps, but a poor on-boarding with the main website).
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It was made by engineers and marketed by engineers. The federated aspect should IMO be public and known, but seamless. It should be possible to just create an account and start browsing without having to do some research on how the thing works. The technical aspect of the fediverse is great, but it’s also its main drawback, I believe that hiding it for newcomers could be a way of not scaring them.
I agree about the bubble effect. I feel it, too, even though I don’t consider myself in a bubble. I truly am enjoying Lemmy and the conversations more than anything else even somewhat similar to it. The smallish nature of the community probably combined with the slightly elevated bar for joining means the riff raff isn’t here in large numbers yet.
Lemmy, today, honestly reminds me of Reddit 15 years ago.
Perhaps this is the bubble effect, but I have a high confidence level in the major third party devs being able to streamline the sign up process. It is already happening in some apps.
The stability problems are another story. I encourage people to go to the front page of their respective communities and look for donation links. Even $1/mo on Patreon can snowball into large sums as Lemmy.World shows.
Stability would be fixed if people realized they don’t have to all join the biggest two communities, which is part of the education problem we have right now for completely new users.
Although servers have really been scaling nicely regardless of those days right after the privating and then July 1st
I agree, but I’m also optimistic because the glitchiness, server performance, and user interface issues are all things that can be fixed in the future.
I feel like there should be a button of “hey you want me to handle this for you and pick an instance” I managed to figure out the basics and liked the post office example that memmy uses where I can mail a letter to my fellow lemm.ee friends down the street but can also get mail and news from across the country. Helpful admins are also good. I’m not super duper tech literate but I figured it out.
Like I said reducing barriers to entry will be helpful because I didn’t come here till Apollo kicked the bucket
It’s something reddit was actually good at. Tons of people used to find reddit way too confusing because they didn’t understand subreddits, so reddit responded by making a list of default subs for the “don’t know don’t care” crowd that makes up 90% of users in practice.
Sure, it opened a different can of worms in that it tanked the quality of those subs when most users didn’t really get the pount of subs, but it massively lowered the barrier to entry on the platform.
We have a much higher barrier to entry with instances, and I really think something should be put in place to lower it.
Agreed with the second part. I think the federated servers are a neat concept, but at the end of the day what made reddit easier was that everything was on one server. You create an account and that’s it, you can browse every subreddit.
I hope it’ll grow more, but rnow I think they should work on making the whole experience more seamless
Mastodon is pretty good with federation stuff. All that is different from Twitter is that all accounts have two @ signs in their names but that’s it. Everything else is pretty seamless, at least on the phone with the official mobile app
Just my opinion but that ease of use will come in time. The more the learning curve exists the more we will get the power users that made Reddit special and the more Lemmy will stay special.
I don’t want the Reddit of today on Lemmy. I want the Reddit 10 years ago when there was a fraction of the users on it.
We are doomed to ultimately have the same struggles that read it ended up with in terms of content and users but we can keep it held off as long as possible.
I disagree with you, yes, ease of use will come for power users, but in the end it’s the diversity of people interacting with the platform that creates communities with valuable content. And to attract more people the platform needs less friction at on-boarding.
Where we disagree is that I believe the level of knowledge needed to form that community is higher than you’re giving credit but time will tell! ;)
Yep, we’ll see!
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Replace? No. Be a valiable second option? Sure. Like in the early 2000 when you had dozens of major forums for certain topics. Something Awful, GameFAQs, Digg, Slashdot, 4chan, NeoGAF… It‘s not a natural law that there has to be one service having 95 % of the discussion market locked up.
Yes! Very much this. Imagine if lemmy would grow to just a few million users. That’s the size of Digg when the migration to Reddit happened! Not everything needs to have a billion users and there’s more engagement in small communities anyway.
Yeah. This makes me think of people who assume Tumblr is dead and unusable when everyone left, whereas in reality it has had a resurgence of creativity instead. Things like Goncharov happen because the people there still have a critical mass.
Platform don’t die. They can flounder a bit, and I’m sure that even Reddit and Lemmy will one day do so too. But they’re there.
Being on the internet used to be not cool.
Email and www. … .com was as foreign to the mainstream as the Fediverse is to the mainstream today.
The nerds build cool shit, the corporations chase the hot new thing to milk every last dollar out of the mainstream who want the cool new toys, and the mainstream inevitably ruins the cool new toy because they don’t understand how or why it was made in the first place.
This is the way of human nature. It has played out on the internet since the start (and probably well before that) and it will probably play out again on the fefiverse (just look at Meta).
Yes, but not in the way you’d think.
I think lemmy won’t be easy enough to use for a vast majority of users, they’ll stick to the traditional platforms.
However, I think if the hype continues for a while, and the little kinks are ironed out soon enough, it will give rise to a new, different kind of platform.
People have this idea that lemmy will replace reddit and just become Reddit 2.0. I think lemmy is still a place similar to a phoenix burning. The new bird has yet to take it’s first breath, and it’ll be quiet different from what we imagine or what we are used to today
@utg @nostupidquestions that’s a great way to put it. We are just starting to see what this new social media fediverse will look lol. It’s exciting!
So this is how it looks from mastodon? That’s pretty rad
There’s still a long journey to go through for lemmy so I’m not expecting it to be popular among people for the next 3 years. But as more and more corporate showing their stupid mindset and lash out more shenanigans, it’s not unreasonable to be optimistic that people finally find and enjoy the value of the fediverse.
Yes give me the flaming bird people. It’s on my 202X bingo card
Loving the random pheonix analogy
Absolutely not in their current formats.
Sign up needs to be simplified enough that your gran could do it and we need way more professional UIs. After those two things, it could happen.
Agreed. Not sure if there is a fair and easy way for the whole “instance” user distribution but the current set up isn’t straight forward. Not to say it was difficult but my experience with it was an immediate thought of this barrier of entry is too steep. It’s unlike what most anyone has likely ever encountered. (at least knowingly.)
Like mapping a network drive. Is it an actually difficult task? No. Can any significant portion of the general population identify what I just stated? Probably no. Sure a small percent may go on to Google that and figure it out. But in general I find it bad practice to ask that of them.
Would it be reasonable if some algorithm handled that aspect and just default assigned people based on location, maybe a couple quick questions of their interests, and the hosts willing capacity increase rate? Plus some other factors I didn’t think of. In some text could also say you can choose from a list of instances if you so choose or just leave it as is.
It should automatically assign by default, but have an “advanced sign-up options” button that you can use if wanted.
Yes. Sign up needs to be like users are accustomed to. but i think the ui is fine.
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As long as you all stay here, I’m happy.
I sure as hell hope not.
To me, that’s like looking around a great little cafe with terrific food and saying, “Do you think this could ever become McDonalds?”
Why would I want that?
Lemmy has a long way to go in terms of user experience before it can effectively compete with Reddit. The majority of new accounts in the last weeks have been spite users. That is, they’re here not because they love Lemmy - but because they hate Reddit.
That’s not a bad thing, per say. It doesn’t matter how people get here. It’s more important that they have a good reason to stay.
And the average user doesn’t care if something is federated or centralized. They just want a product that works and is simple to grasp. In my opinion, app developers are going to be the gamechanger Lemmy needs Stuff like Memmy (on the iOS app store today!), Mlem, Liftoff, Thunder are pretty much better than the official Reddit app. And that’s how most people consume content these days. When there’s no enshitification ads or microtransactions - there’s clearly going to be a winning experience.
It’ll take time, but as more Federation communities build - the less Reddit is necessary. As well, it usually takes a long time before people start catching on that the tools they once loved have turned to into bots and spam.
Mastodon is in it’s 7th year, and has like 8 million active users. Twitter had 200 million users by it’s 7th year. On one hand, Mastodon is the biggest Federation app. On the other, Twitter was 25x as large. Of course, Twitter is no longer the relevant “town hall” it once was - and is hemorrhaging users and respect. So who knows. It only takes a few celebrity endorsements to get countless folks switching. Who knows
We are so used to the idea that a social media network has to dominate the world - ekse it’s a failure. If Lemmy, Mastodon, Pixelfed or your old fishing forum is enjoyed by some people, it’s a success.
It’s a capitalist habit. People are so used to every company having to maximize profits that they forget this is just a space to share and talk about stuff, not an entity aiming to make a profit.
This needs to be instilled into everyone’s brain. If the site grows a community it’s a success.
If anything having it not turn into the behemoth that Reddit is might make the community even better.
It doesn’t need to become mainstream. I’ll be happy to be a part of a smaller but vibrant engaged community. I hope there will be a phone app some day through
I’ve been experimenting with WefWef, which is a web app that works really well on iOS and probably works well on Android as well. Reminiscent of Apollo or Sync.
On iOS you can add it to the Home Screen and it acts like an app. I think you can do so on Android as well, but it’s been a couple years since I’ve used Android.
I am using wefwef on android and it works perfectly fine. My goto lemmy app nowadays
Both Mastodon and Lemmy have phone apps.
Connect for lemmy seems to work pretty good so far, and wefwef looks good too.
And all the reddit app devs making new apps seem like it will make a big impact.
I’m using Jerboa on Android and it’s really, really nice. Reminds me of Boost.
Omg didn’t even know. I installed it and am trying it now. Very promising
I think it remains to be seen. The rapid growth of .world has been the first real production test of how the platform handles more users and content. Amazing work by the team, but there are a lot of rough edges and it is a new platform with a lot of unknowns.
The things that spring to mind for me are:
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Sign up needs to be streamlined and made more simple, and find a way to not overload individual servers without just randomly assigning people to instances.
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Live defects, bugs and things feeling rough around the edges.
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Back-end build and scaling.
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Duplicate communities across instances.
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Account migration between instances.
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Data retention past x period - how will various instances handle this with a large number of users.
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GDPR and data request compliance from individuals, governments, etc.
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Funding the costs and resources associated with rapid, large growth. How do people know what their money is going to fund? I think there needs to be real transparency, public roadmaps and backlogs and understand how / if admins are accountable.
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How the platform and users will respond to large corporations or even individual admins on instances adding adverts, using / selling user data in ways the userbase do not expect.
The biggest issue would be data retention. Reddit serves as a real world database that stores all the historical content and search engines like google make it searchable.
We’re talking about petabytes, and lemmy hardly has a few gigabytes.
Who is going to store all this data, even in a distributed environment, the bigger instances would have to store a few hundred terrabytes (per year).
Text is very light and compresses very well. While instances may risk having scaling issues with photo and video, text should be very easy to archive forever.
Media is only stored by the instance of the user that’s uploading it, if you want to upload tons of data you’re going to end up having to self-host.
…and it’s not like links don’t break on reddit all the time. Don’t worry about archiving that’s what archive.org is for.
On the other hand, do we really need to store it? Sure some posts will remain relevant, but many and even most posts on reddit, forums etc are outdated. Maybe communities and mods should decide what posts are relevant and make them permanent, where the rest just get erased after a set period of time that the community sets.
If stuff is deleted it can end up as a DenverCoder9 suituation where you search the tntire internet to find a solution to yer specific problem, find someone who had iot a decade ago, solved it and either never posted it or it was wiped.
I specifically use Reddit for the data retention and ease of finding “old” information, unlike basically other social media which scrubs it from any search even seconds after you looked at it (even if they still store the data)
Wouldn’t that take even more resources?
Personally I think its ok for instances to delete older posts to save space provided that there are means to archive threads that users find valuable. For fediverse to thrive it should be as easy as possible for people to setup and manage instances without having to think about the storage space too much.
Archival of historical content is something that I feel should be handled separately.
Duplicate Communities are wanted.
That’s really interesting, what are the benefits to duplicate communities beyond one server going offline or not retaining data? Is it better to have a lot of smaller communities with duplicate posts in them and having a quite splintered user base, or having everyone in one place but have the risk of having all the eggs in one basket!
The resiliance to opresion. Because federation it is wanted to have smaller communities. As everything is splintered into small communities. And smaller communities are better managable.
For sure! It will be interesting to see how it all works out as Lemmy hopefully grows and scales
Yeah we will see :)
There are still a bunch of UI bugs that remain to be solved. That one is also a big hurdle to becoming mainstream
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fuck dude I hope not. The best part of Lemmy to me is the fact that it’s not as big as the others, and what Lemmy gives me is that same feeling of freedom websites in the 2000s and early 2010s felt like they had.
