cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/20749204

Another positive step in the right direction for an organization rife with brokenness. There’s a lot I don’t like about the organization, but this is something a love–a scouting organization open to young women and the lgbtq community. The next step is being inclusive of nonreligious agnostic and atheist youth and leaders. As well as ending the cultural appropriation of Native American peoples.

May this organization continue to build up youth, never allow further violence against youth, and make amends for all the wrongs. There’s a lot of good that comes out of organizations like this and I won’t discount it even though it’s riddled with a dark history.

  • Dojan@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    What? As a complete outsider (I’m from Sweden, scouts isn’t a thing here) what does scouting have to do with religion? Why would they discriminate against atheists?

    I thought scouting was about natural sciences, and helping out in the local community? Which to me sounds pretty nice!

    Edit: Scouts are a thing here in Sweden. Thank you for the corrections, I’m quite baffled I’ve managed to miss that.

    • BastingChemina@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      5 months ago

      The three core principles of scouting are:

      • Duty to God (adherence to spiritual principles, loyalty to the religion that expresses them and acceptance of the duties resulting therefrom)
      • Duty to others
      • Duty to self

      When asked where religion came into Scouting and Guiding, Baden-Powell replied “It does not come in at all. It is already there. It is a fundamental factor underlying Scouting and Guiding”. Source

      So unfortunately removing religion from the scouting would remove one of the core principle of the movement, I don’t think it would anytime soon.

      Which is a shame because I really enjoyed my time scouting, I think it was a great balance of fun, education and learning responsibilities. But the religion aspect of it make me seriously reconsider to send my kids to do it or not.

    • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      The Boy Scouts of America is a Christian organization.

      Although, as I was a scout myself that shit never came into play other than the occasional group prayer at big, national events. The individual stuff in our troop was agnostic af and my troop leader was Jewish.

    • Zammy95@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      The Scout Law - “A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and REVERANT.”

      Also the scout oath: “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;…”

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        5 months ago

        For the scout law, reverant doesn’t have anything to do with God necessarily. It is usually used in reference to God, but it could be reverence of nature or other things.

      • dankm@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        In Canada they added a second option. Old: “On my honour; I promise that I will do my best; To do my duty to God and the King;…” New: “On my honour; I promise that I will do my best; To respect my country and my beliefs;…”

      • Brutticus@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        5 months ago

        At my eagle interview, they asked me which point I would take out of the scout oath, and I said, Reverent

        • TexasDrunk@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          5 months ago

          You should have tried to sneak in “revenant” to see if it gave you the ability to raise the dead.

      • Dojan@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        5 months ago

        Ooh. I suppose this is the answer I was looking for, though it still strikes me as rather strange. Was scouts established a very long time ago and did the religious bit just kind of cling on? Is there any type of push for making it secular? Because what little I knew, learning about natural sciences, and getting hands-on experience in various situations, as well as helping out the local communtiy just strikes me as a very positive thing. Squeezing in religion among all that just feels so out of place and foreign to me. It’s like one of those “find the odd one out” situations.

        • Rozz@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          5 months ago

          A lot of people have mentioned that the reverence can be loosely defined and doesn’t necessarily specify a certain god, but also a lot of it depends, I’m sure, on which part of the country you are in, which organization charters for you, and the volunteers that are actually part of the organization. Many people have barely had to say what they are reverent to and move on.

    • StenSaksTapir@feddit.dk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      5 months ago

      What? Sweden don’t have scouts? My daughter was on a scout camp there last year and I believe there were swedish scouts also.

      Regardless, in Denmark we have a few scout organizations. One of them KFUM (which would translate to the same as YMCA) which is the christian boy’s scouting org, that also allows girls, and the similar one for girls that don’t allow boys. Both of them has Christianity as a pretty foundational thing and most of the clubhouses are in or near churches and they have church services on camps and shit. Then there’s DDS (dark blue uniforms) and they’re not connected to any faith, but are still committed to the “spiritual development” of the scout. However this can be done in other ways than inflicting religion on children. In 1973 they merged the boy and girl scouts, so it’s just one thing now. The yellow scouts branched from DDS in the 80’s, with a mission to go back to more traditional scouting values. Not sure what that means, but they’re a also non-religious and non-political organization.

      Finally there’s some Danish Baptist scouts but I don’t know much about them other than they’re likely a more religious variant of KFUM, attached to another christian flavor.

    • can@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      5 months ago

      Same reason Alcoholics Anonymous requires you to put faith in a higher power.

      • Dojan@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        5 months ago

        What! That’s also so bizarre! Isn’t AA just group therapy? Why does that require a deity?

        • can@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          5 months ago

          Because it’s manipulative and they only care about helping the “right” people.

      • Delusional@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        Yeah religion is shoehorned into a lot of things here. Alcoholics anonymous is religion based which makes absolutely no sense to me. Going to AA and being force fed religious bullshit would make me want to drink more.