Donald Trump faces four indictments, 91 criminal charges and hundreds of years of maximum prison time combined.

This is a former president who — according to the latest grand jury indictment in Fulton County, Georgia — participated in a “criminal enterprise.” Trump and 18 co-defendants are accused of trying “to unlawfully change the outcome of the election” in 2020. Among the 13 felony charges he faces is one count of violating the Georgia RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) Act and two counts of conspiracy to commit forgery.

Most of those charges are related to a fake elector scheme by the Trump campaign in which a slate of “alternate” electors in Georgia would cast electoral votes for Trump instead of Joe Biden. The president of the most powerful democracy in the world allegedly tried to steal an election.

We can’t say it often enough: This is serious. Americans cannot shrug this off or normalize it, no matter how many times Trump gets indicted. Yet it feels like business as usual. Not only is Trump favored to win the GOP presidential nomination, he’s also neck and neck with President Biden in the 2024 general election, according to a July poll by the New York Times/Siena Poll.

MORE THAN A CULT

Trump’s support cannot only be explained as the product of the cult-like power he has over his MAGA base, which accounts for roughly 40% of Republican voters who believe those indictments are nothing but a conspiracy against him.

more: https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article278265068.html

  • Pons_Aelius@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    149
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    Personal Opinion:

    The USA is one of the countries where religion intersects very strongly with politics. His diehard supporters have elevated their support to a level of worship.

    Anything he says is true and correct because He said it.

    Anything he does is right and proper because He can do no wrong.

    • vividspecter@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      “Americans” also includes the subset that cry “both sides are the same” or are too apathetic to vote. If you don’t vote against the Republican party, then you are supporting what is happening.

            • wagesj45@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              I didn’t invent our voting system. I just do the best I can within the system. I vote for the best person running in the primary, then I vote for the best person left running in the general election. “Best” is relative, but it is what it is.

    • atfergs@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      ·
      1 year ago

      It appears to be a very large subset that’s prepared to vote him in for a second term.

      • Jordan Lund@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s smaller than you think… keep in mind, the Republican party has been distilling down to a pure crazy base for years now…

        So remember, when you see polls like “70% of registered Republicans think… x”, that’s what’s left after 20 years of rational conservatives leaving the party.

        This isn’t the party of George Will or William F. Buckly, Jr. The academic conservatives are long gone now.

        • Zoboomafoo@yiffit.net
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          ·
          1 year ago

          It sure seems like those objectors leaving the party are good at holding their nose in the voting booth

    • Nougat@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      The other side of that is that lots of us have been calling for him to be held responsible for years. He never has been. Forgive me if I’m less than perfecly hopeful this time.

      • Jordan Lund@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        1 year ago

        4 indictments and 91 felonies is farther than we’ve gotten with any other Republican President in my lifetime.

        Nixon - Watergate
        Ford - Mostly Harmless
        Reagan - October Surprise/Iran-Contra
        Bush Sr. - Iran-Contra
        Bush Jr. - Abu Ghraib war crimes

        So I’ll take it!

        • chaogomu@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          1 year ago

          Ford was the corrupt deal to pardon Nixon, and Nixon also sabotaged the 1968 Paris Peace talks with the help of Henry Kissinger to extend the Vietnam War. The two also bombed Cambodia.

          The two of them committed a lot of war crimes.

          Nixon also started the war on drugs specifically as a way to harm the anti-war left and black people.

          • PickTheStick@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yeah, I think the Nixon and Bush Jr. examples could have been way stronger than those. It seems they were chosen for their recognition rather than their severity. Abu Ghraib was not good, but blaming Bush for that rather than the whole war?

  • GodlessCommie@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    62
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    America democracy deserves to be mocked. Only the rich have a voice in government, MIC gets more aid than its own citizens, people are starving in the streets while capitalism feasts.

  • bauhaus@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    45
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Nobody is shrugging this off. Those left of center are freaking out while the Nazis on the right are cheering him on.

    Nobody is shrugging this off

    • fiah@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nobody is shrugging this off

      except the millions upon millions of people who can’t even be bothered to vote. I know the systemic vote suppression probably counts for a significant part of it, but honestly most of the rest are skirting their civic duty

        • SnowdenHeroOfOurTime@unilem.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          1 year ago

          How about a pile of dog shit? If Trump had literally just let the medical experts speak instead of constantly downplaying COVID 19, thousands of people wouldn’t be dead now. A pile of dog shit would’ve at least had the courtesy of shutting the fuck up.

        • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          Literally every alternative is better.

          Even corporate bootlicker sleepy joe is making heaps of improvements in the US compared to Trump.

              • LoopingRiver@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                1 year ago

                Ah, the “neither side is the ideal option so just vote for Trump” angle. Not sure what your point is unless you’re pro-Trump. Is Biden the ideal candidate? No, but here in reality where the options are Trump or Biden, there really isn’t a valid argument where anyone left of alt-right wouldn’t vote for Biden.

    • SnowdenHeroOfOurTime@unilem.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      ·
      1 year ago

      Tell people’s conservative parents everywhere that. I know for sure mine are shruggers. At this point anything short of “damn it looks like you kids were right, I’m voting Democrat if I have to” is a shrug.

      • PickTheStick@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Context matters. When they’re in a conversation with another person that they care for and are face-to-face, who is talking about a contrary point of view, logic and thinking is present in some small amount in their brain. They’ll actually think about the other person’s point, and then make the mental shrug about Trump and his crimes and their effect on his viability/reasonableness as a candidate.

        If they’re in a group of other supporters, or on the internet, they very quickly do the republican/conservative thing of ‘falling in line’ and will try to publicly demonstrate (virtue signaling, aye?) how much they are part of the group and follow its standards.

        I’ve had several conversations with my parents. When it is just me and one of them, I get a semi-reasonable conversation, but if another person is present, suddenly it’s like having a conversation with a fox news talking-head.

        • SnowdenHeroOfOurTime@unilem.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          You are lucky honestly. I think my parents double down because it’s me talking :/

          And I’m definitely more disappointed and upset because it’s them, the people who supposedly raised me to be good.

  • TwoGems@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    47
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    It’s baffling how dumb nearly half of the country is. I am definitely not smart but these people must just have nothing left in their skulls if they’re wanting to vote for Trump after all this.

    • ohlaph@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      23
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      When they attack education for decades, you get a fair amount of dumb as a result. They were taught to obey and follow, party over all else.

    • wagesj45@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      A good chunk of them are just mean and want liberals to suffer because they find them annoying.

    • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Half the country by land area, not by population. Land matters more than people in our system. Gotta be fair to the empty land in the Dakotas and not give people health care, right?

    • Techmaster@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Think about how dumb the average American is and realize that half of them are stupider than that.

    • Catma@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      I dont think it is that simple. Some can probably be tied to education being demonized on one side. So to trust anyone with a degree becomes taboo, even doctors are not to be trusted at this point.

      I think most of it comes down to the right wing news outlets saying anyone slightly to the left of them is working with the Christian devil to destroy america. So now your choice becomes not who best runs the country but a choice of good vs evil. Trump despite everything is smart enough to play directly into this with his rhetoric. He is the saviour the right needs to stop literal evil from taking over. How do you argue people out of voting for good? Its only getting worse it feels like.

    • zik@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Sure. But most Americans don’t seem to regard Trump as the worst president ever which boggles my mind. This guy was openly trying to overthrow democracy in America and was engaging in organised criminal activities, and you think there were worse presidents? I mean he was literally trying to overthrow your entire constitution and system of government. Can it get worse than that?

      • tacosplease@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Do we really not say Trump is the worst president? If not him then who? Maybe W for destabilizing the Middle East? Still seems like more people think Trump is worse than G. W. Bush though.

        • zik@aussie.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          NIxon is often quoted. But maybe you’re right and Americans really do regard him as the worst ever.

      • Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Conservatives are not the majority. The majority of Americans do see Trump as the worst president ever. Normal people hate the motherfucker and his followers. Unfortunately, conservatives are as loud and violent as they are unintelligent. They are a plague in desperate need of a cure.

  • TheSaneWriter@lemmy.thesanewriter.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    27
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    It’s because conspiracism and anti-democratic sentiments have rooted deeply into the Republican party, and for as long as they remain Trump and candidates like him will remain popular.

  • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    24
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    The two party system gives the American people a choice between two right of center corporatist options.

    None of Trump’s crimes threaten that power structure. Quite frankly his antics really only serve to facilitate corporate capture of the American political system even further. Which is why all this is presented in such a business as usual and ‘trust the institutions to sort things out’ way.

    • Compass Inspector@invariant-marxism.red
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s never been more obvious that this is all a puppet show. And they hate that it’s obvious. Look at how fast the two “opposing sides” (lol) join hands when it comes to something that has to do with war or crushing labor strikes. The rest of the time it’s terminal gridlock, posturing, and ostentatious displays of feigned aggression. And it all just so happens to line up perfectly with the will of the bourgeoisie.

  • ArugulaZ@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    1 year ago

    I’m plenty mad! But what the fuck do you want me to do about it?! Trump’s lawyers keep rolling back the trial dates, Republicans try to keep the trials from happening at all. The only way anyone in power is going to take our complaints seriously is if we go to the same lengths as the January 6th rioters, and we know what happened to them. Really, what would you LIKE us to do? I’m open to fucking suggestions, because nothing we’ve done so far has accomplished anything. We just get ignored.

    THIS IS NOT OUR FAULTS.

    • Digitalprimate@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Take a page out of the French playbook. General strike.

      [Oh but wait they have rigged system such that if you do that you’ll get fired, thus losing your healthcare and possibly spiraling into bankruptcy. Seems that ship has sailed…]

      • PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        It really sailed when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers for striking. If the government has that much power over unions, then unions are powerless.

  • gamer@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Yet if the latest New York Times poll is right — and we’re still a long way from the presidential elections — many Americans either believe Trump’s alleged crimes didn’t occur or they think they aren’t that big a deal.

    It has to be the former. I think the one and only thing that sets these “lunatics” apart from the rest of us is simply that they trust Trump. The things he says are terrifying, and would drive any otherwise sane person to do crazy things to defend their country if they were true. I don’t think it’s fair to call these people evil or stupid, they’re just being played by a master scam artist. Add a little bit of ego and stubbornness to it, and I can see someone rejecting logical arguments if they’re coming out of the mouth of someone who just called them an idiot.

    • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      A smart racist is an oxymoron.

      Not all Republicans are racist, but all of them agreed it isn’t a deal breaker.

    • Arsenal4ever@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      30% of the population still supported Nixon.

      Fox News was started to get a future Nixon off. Even Ailes probably didn’t forsee the massive Trump family criming (we still haven’t talked about Ivanka’s Chinese patents and Jared’s 2 billion Saudi bailouts.)

    • BassTurd@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nah, they’re stupid. Maybe at first I could give them a pass, but with the mountains it evidence including video evidence and audio recordings of Trump himself, you have to be stupid to still believe he’s innocent.

      • gamer@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        When was the last time you convinced someone they were wrong by calling them stupid? A lot of people who are smarter than you are falling for this scam. The last time Trump won, the polling suggested he was going to lose because people who were thinking of voting for him didn’t talk about it publicly for fear of being mocked by people like you.

        • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          If they fear of getting mocked, why do they still do it?

          Wouldn’t that mean they understand their opinion about the topic is just dumb?

          • gamer@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            Are you being serious, or just circle jerking to feel good making fun of people? If they knew it was stupid, they wouldn’t believe it. Clearly, they don’t realize that their beliefs are stupid. We can either try to help them, or bully them until they quietly vote for Trump again or attempt another coup.

  • febra@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    13
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Maybe because americans do not know what a true democracy looks like? The US was never a true democracy. Gerrymandering is the easiest example for that.

    • RoundSparrow@lemmy.mlOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Personally I think the issue is more that there is blind loyalty to team sports in USA culture, and no matter how many bad things are documented about a specific person (Donald Trump, Richard Nixon)… people are loyal to the image of that person, the brand and logo. People are raised in the USA to be inundated with breakfast cereal and toy company logo/brand recognition. It’s a faith system. Breakfast cereals and fast-food “Happy plates” that fund a lot of children’s TV are incredibly unhealthy and profit machines - and parents think this is psychologically healthy.

      Politics will eventually be replaced by imagery. The politician will be only too happy to abdicate in favor of his image, because the image will be much more powerful than he could ever be. -Marshall McLuhan

    • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Gerrymandering is the easiest example for that

      And here I am thinking that it was the fact that only about a third of adults were actually allowed to vote. Strictly speaking, whichever proportion of that third that owned land but I don’t have any way of estimating that, but the tldr is that for the majority of our nation’s history the majority of our nation had no say in how it was governed.

  • WorldWideLem@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    ·
    1 year ago

    A viral tweet stated that we are not a Democracy, we’re a Republic, and Republicans collectively nodded their heads in agreement.

    Aside from that, I think many Americans don’t believe American democracy is currently working in their favor, leading to apathy or outright hostility towards democracy itself.

    • notatoad@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I think many Americans don’t believe American democracy is currently working in their favor, leading to apathy or outright hostility towards democracy itself.

      i think this is basically it. the intellectual left likes to say things like “donald trump made a mockery of our democracy” but the reality is that american democracy has been a mockery of itself for a long time. All donald trump did was make it a bit more difficult to ignore that. Not to say he’s not criminal, and treasonous, and should be in jail. but he’s really only marginally worse than Mitch McConnell. it’s not nearly as shocking as the newspapers want us to believe.

      • CitizenKong@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah, he was just too stupid to not say the quiet part out loud. And to not be criminal all the time while being very bad at hiding it.

  • Skyrmir@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    ·
    1 year ago

    Guess what happens when one party creates a media empire to spread the message that government doesn’t work for 40 years?

    This should be surprising no one. If anything, it’s a bigger surprise it hasn’t led to to civil war on a much shorter time scale.

  • MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    The GOP literally took a seam ripper of the US Constitution.

    For being written by slave fucking tax avoiding elitists it is remarkable that the 246 year old document that has basically 27 edits. I’ve got three line comments with more edits.

    So the response needs to be measured and take time to avoid opening further seams for attack while patching and mending the ones abused.

    It will likely take longer than I will live to complete, and I am Gen X.