I’ve definitely found myself exploring outside of the purist/dogmatic ML takes you tend to find from white cis het ML on twitter etc.
I consider myself a socialist and since I’m working towards communism eventually then im a ML because its what helps define communism within a industrialised nation right? That label would fit but living in the imperial core I view our struggle currently as less an adventurist revolutionary fantasy on the horizon like I think a lot of newer ML fall into and instead I see what must be done based not on the material conditions of the USSR and orthodox ML but ML applied to for me the UK.
So that for me is building local community, education, uplifting and building local socialism whether it’s mutual aid or whatever.
Like I just don’t see any form of large macro change happening in fortress Europe until people’s economic conditions really force their hand. When that happens whoever gets into power will be defined by the foundation of understanding around economics, either we slide into fascism or we rise to socialism I think.
Therefore for me I feel I’m doing right by engaging in local community stuff to build the foundations for socialism and eventually communism or whatever flavor of socialism we end up with frankly.
Conversely if we did what I think a lot of newer ML want and have a big barney now, even if the socialist won, we’d have our base slaughtered in the fighting by thr armies and police of our own states and have no larger prole force to create a dictatorship of the proletariat to start with losing our hard fought win to oppotunist fascism supported by the police and militaries.
So yeah I totally kinda get you cos while I’d say I’m ML, I feel really I’m just happy with any form of socialism and my ML combined with an intersectional analysis of minority struggle is how I analyse society as I see it.
Tl;Dr I just want to improve things too and feminism, intersectionality etc with broader socialist understanding vs specific ideological frameworks is how I’ve find the most success is improving things locally.
We definitely need several conditions to change in the UK before anything revolutionary occurs I’m with you there. Some things are economic and some others could be pushed via some electoral policies, although I don’t see a pathway to electoral policies with Starmer and the purge he pulled. A lot of union sentiment has improved, but translating into new union members? I’m not seeing it happen fast enough. Another issue is the misogyny and bigotry that currently exists among MLs in the UK, created by the bizarre attempt at allying themselves with terfs and appealing to the man down the pub. This has been created by tories posing as the bloke down the pub to appeal to reactionaries, and somehow MLs have bought it as the depiction of the average working class person of the UK which is just plain nonsense, they’re trying to appeal to a caricature created by the bourgeoisie. Undoing this false mindset is very important to get MLs focused on the actually-vulnerable people, problem is that leadership in these parties is pushing it and there isn’t any way to dislodge that leadership without massive entryism from lgbt people who have already almost all left those parties.
I view our struggle currently as less an adventurist revolutionary fantasy on the horizon like I think a lot of newer ML fall into
I don’t think there is any problem with having a laser-focus on achieving revolution. It should be the question that guides all work we do, how our work contributes to future revolution, what prerequisites must be met, etc etc. While it’s not available as an option right now we should be identifying prerequisites needed for it and working to achieve them.
Preach!! I fully agree, I don’t really have anything to add tbh lmao.
Omg don’t even get me started on the ML parties in the UK. Its why I identify as a socialist now vs a proud ML. Its not just the UK parties but they are such a fantastic example of the cis het whiteness of male ML I’ve came to really struggle with.
Obviously it’s not all and I apologise if I sweeping statement people and tbh its less specifcially ML but just male Marxists in general but I’ve found difficulties with cis het male ML regarding trans and feminism which I frankly struggle to tolerate or look past. It’s this weird blend of paternalistic chauvinism “awwh look at the women and their feminism, we men need to protect them” sort of shit and then when we do anything to organise for ourselves I always see one jumped up cis het ML going “could this not be more revolutionary” without firstly any understanding of feminism and systemic sexism and secondly no understanding of how women will find push back and criticism for ANY organising whether it be strikes or protests by men vs men facing less push back in work/life for the same activities e.g. union work.
Like for all their posturing about material conditions they never fucking engage with that analysis so yeah I found myself becoming increasingly alienated from ML I meet irl and online outside of hexbear for the above reasons.
Don’t even get me started on takes regarding trans women.
Agreed and I think you’ve articulated for me how I see it, I think what feels like the fetishisation of a bloody October revolution-esque struggle is what I find a bit immature. Like I’m building towards breaking down capitalism, I’ll take whatever form of functional and successful means of achieving that appears thanks and as we’ve both said I think that’s building the foundations currently in the imperial core.
I’ve definitely found myself exploring outside of the purist/dogmatic ML takes you tend to find from white cis het ML on twitter etc.
I consider myself a socialist and since I’m working towards communism eventually then im a ML because its what helps define communism within a industrialised nation right? That label would fit but living in the imperial core I view our struggle currently as less an adventurist revolutionary fantasy on the horizon like I think a lot of newer ML fall into and instead I see what must be done based not on the material conditions of the USSR and orthodox ML but ML applied to for me the UK.
So that for me is building local community, education, uplifting and building local socialism whether it’s mutual aid or whatever.
Like I just don’t see any form of large macro change happening in fortress Europe until people’s economic conditions really force their hand. When that happens whoever gets into power will be defined by the foundation of understanding around economics, either we slide into fascism or we rise to socialism I think.
Therefore for me I feel I’m doing right by engaging in local community stuff to build the foundations for socialism and eventually communism or whatever flavor of socialism we end up with frankly.
Conversely if we did what I think a lot of newer ML want and have a big barney now, even if the socialist won, we’d have our base slaughtered in the fighting by thr armies and police of our own states and have no larger prole force to create a dictatorship of the proletariat to start with losing our hard fought win to oppotunist fascism supported by the police and militaries.
So yeah I totally kinda get you cos while I’d say I’m ML, I feel really I’m just happy with any form of socialism and my ML combined with an intersectional analysis of minority struggle is how I analyse society as I see it.
Tl;Dr I just want to improve things too and feminism, intersectionality etc with broader socialist understanding vs specific ideological frameworks is how I’ve find the most success is improving things locally.
We definitely need several conditions to change in the UK before anything revolutionary occurs I’m with you there. Some things are economic and some others could be pushed via some electoral policies, although I don’t see a pathway to electoral policies with Starmer and the purge he pulled. A lot of union sentiment has improved, but translating into new union members? I’m not seeing it happen fast enough. Another issue is the misogyny and bigotry that currently exists among MLs in the UK, created by the bizarre attempt at allying themselves with terfs and appealing to the man down the pub. This has been created by tories posing as the bloke down the pub to appeal to reactionaries, and somehow MLs have bought it as the depiction of the average working class person of the UK which is just plain nonsense, they’re trying to appeal to a caricature created by the bourgeoisie. Undoing this false mindset is very important to get MLs focused on the actually-vulnerable people, problem is that leadership in these parties is pushing it and there isn’t any way to dislodge that leadership without massive entryism from lgbt people who have already almost all left those parties.
I don’t think there is any problem with having a laser-focus on achieving revolution. It should be the question that guides all work we do, how our work contributes to future revolution, what prerequisites must be met, etc etc. While it’s not available as an option right now we should be identifying prerequisites needed for it and working to achieve them.
Preach!! I fully agree, I don’t really have anything to add tbh lmao.
Omg don’t even get me started on the ML parties in the UK. Its why I identify as a socialist now vs a proud ML. Its not just the UK parties but they are such a fantastic example of the cis het whiteness of male ML I’ve came to really struggle with.
Obviously it’s not all and I apologise if I sweeping statement people and tbh its less specifcially ML but just male Marxists in general but I’ve found difficulties with cis het male ML regarding trans and feminism which I frankly struggle to tolerate or look past. It’s this weird blend of paternalistic chauvinism “awwh look at the women and their feminism, we men need to protect them” sort of shit and then when we do anything to organise for ourselves I always see one jumped up cis het ML going “could this not be more revolutionary” without firstly any understanding of feminism and systemic sexism and secondly no understanding of how women will find push back and criticism for ANY organising whether it be strikes or protests by men vs men facing less push back in work/life for the same activities e.g. union work.
Like for all their posturing about material conditions they never fucking engage with that analysis so yeah I found myself becoming increasingly alienated from ML I meet irl and online outside of hexbear for the above reasons.
Don’t even get me started on takes regarding trans women.
Agreed and I think you’ve articulated for me how I see it, I think what feels like the fetishisation of a bloody October revolution-esque struggle is what I find a bit immature. Like I’m building towards breaking down capitalism, I’ll take whatever form of functional and successful means of achieving that appears thanks and as we’ve both said I think that’s building the foundations currently in the imperial core.