Yo I don’t agree with sanctions either but to pretend that the massive military industrial isn’t propping up the Russian economy is absurd… any country’s economy tends to do well during wartime??? How am I spitting BS?
israel, for example, doesn’t seem to be doing super hot. Nor is ukraine, for obvious reasons.
The economic situation during wartime isn’t just inherently better and buoyed by war and destruction, but is often boosted by a wartime willingness to diverge from the capitalist economist orthodoxy and spent state money to keep production going. Russia also has a lot of domestic production and natural resources that are more resilient to sanctions-based attacks than say, high finance, tech industry, anything dependent on foreign capital, etc.
Whether that will change after the war ends depends on the same sorts of economic policies, though the contours will shift a little. The US after WW2 for example, didn’t collapse after the wartime economy went away. There’s a lot of reasons for that, and its not a perfect analogy, but still, they used economic tools at their disposal to keep the good economy going for a long time after the war.
You use a lot of thought terminating cliches to try and brute force your argument without actually presenting any argument. Like we are all supposed to just assume you are correct
Countries that are producing arms can do well, sure, no disagreeing there. But one of Russian’s main sources of wealth on the national level is oil which the US absolutely failed to sanction because Europeans, for obvious reasons, said “ok, we said sanction Russia, not commit suicide.”
But beyond oil, Russia has built up a resilience for decades now to US influence. Remember when the sanctions hit and all these corporations immediately had to leave to be in compliance. Russia just has their own McDonald’s (and a bunch of other examples). They have China on their border, a close ally of Russia and strong trade partner. Whatever resources or commodities the US sought to remove from the Russian economy they either had domestically produced replacements ready to go or China can fill the need if not.
Sanctions just simply do not work. If the US actually desired an end to the war in Ukraine it could’ve ended it two years and let Ukraine negotiate the eastern provinces to become independent as Putin has said since the start. Ukraine surely would’ve already done this had it not been for the US CIA and NATO pushing them with false promises of joining NATO (and a healthy far right wing in Ukraine with a gun to Zelenskyy’s head basically so he can’t ever give up or he’s gone- also supported snd strengthened by CIA).
Even in your own reply here you are saying the war is propping Russia up. I assume you think that is sustainable until the war is over and then Russia’s economy will collapse. Maybe. But that also indirectly concedes that sanctions are not working against Russia if it’s still able to wage effective war and maintain a stable domestic situations. The sanctions aren’t supposed to be “oh damn, well after the war is over, THEN the Russians will suffer and they’ll really regret that war!” They’re supposed to put pressure and force a faster end to conflict right now… which is objectively just not happening. Russia seems to have basically indefinite capacity to continue this war even with all the US’s harsh sanctions. The only thing further the US could even try (they already blew up that pipeline, remember that?) is really really forcing Europe to not buy oil sold via proxy which came from Russia. Is that gonna happen? Of course not because Germans aren’t going to destroy their own economy and their own standard of living all for the benefit of the US getting what it wants. And it’s debatable if cutting off all sales entirely would even work because again China can just keep buying all the excess. Unless China decides to start sanctioning Russia and stop purchasing their oil (never happening) Russia will be fine.
Yo I don’t agree with sanctions either but to pretend that the massive military industrial isn’t propping up the Russian economy is absurd… any country’s economy tends to do well during wartime??? How am I spitting BS?
I think that’s a big ol’ Citation Needed
https://forward.com/opinion/603124/israel-economy-iran-retaliation/
israel, for example, doesn’t seem to be doing super hot. Nor is ukraine, for obvious reasons.
The economic situation during wartime isn’t just inherently better and buoyed by war and destruction, but is often boosted by a wartime willingness to diverge from the capitalist economist orthodoxy and spent state money to keep production going. Russia also has a lot of domestic production and natural resources that are more resilient to sanctions-based attacks than say, high finance, tech industry, anything dependent on foreign capital, etc.
Whether that will change after the war ends depends on the same sorts of economic policies, though the contours will shift a little. The US after WW2 for example, didn’t collapse after the wartime economy went away. There’s a lot of reasons for that, and its not a perfect analogy, but still, they used economic tools at their disposal to keep the good economy going for a long time after the war.
Bruh if this was true then the secret to economic growth would be breaking windows
“Tbh” “let’s not pretend”
You use a lot of thought terminating cliches to try and brute force your argument without actually presenting any argument. Like we are all supposed to just assume you are correct
Countries that are producing arms can do well, sure, no disagreeing there. But one of Russian’s main sources of wealth on the national level is oil which the US absolutely failed to sanction because Europeans, for obvious reasons, said “ok, we said sanction Russia, not commit suicide.”
But beyond oil, Russia has built up a resilience for decades now to US influence. Remember when the sanctions hit and all these corporations immediately had to leave to be in compliance. Russia just has their own McDonald’s (and a bunch of other examples). They have China on their border, a close ally of Russia and strong trade partner. Whatever resources or commodities the US sought to remove from the Russian economy they either had domestically produced replacements ready to go or China can fill the need if not.
Sanctions just simply do not work. If the US actually desired an end to the war in Ukraine it could’ve ended it two years and let Ukraine negotiate the eastern provinces to become independent as Putin has said since the start. Ukraine surely would’ve already done this had it not been for the US CIA and NATO pushing them with false promises of joining NATO (and a healthy far right wing in Ukraine with a gun to Zelenskyy’s head basically so he can’t ever give up or he’s gone- also supported snd strengthened by CIA).
Even in your own reply here you are saying the war is propping Russia up. I assume you think that is sustainable until the war is over and then Russia’s economy will collapse. Maybe. But that also indirectly concedes that sanctions are not working against Russia if it’s still able to wage effective war and maintain a stable domestic situations. The sanctions aren’t supposed to be “oh damn, well after the war is over, THEN the Russians will suffer and they’ll really regret that war!” They’re supposed to put pressure and force a faster end to conflict right now… which is objectively just not happening. Russia seems to have basically indefinite capacity to continue this war even with all the US’s harsh sanctions. The only thing further the US could even try (they already blew up that pipeline, remember that?) is really really forcing Europe to not buy oil sold via proxy which came from Russia. Is that gonna happen? Of course not because Germans aren’t going to destroy their own economy and their own standard of living all for the benefit of the US getting what it wants. And it’s debatable if cutting off all sales entirely would even work because again China can just keep buying all the excess. Unless China decides to start sanctioning Russia and stop purchasing their oil (never happening) Russia will be fine.