The people who say they need 3 cups of black coffee to start their day are just addicts with a high tolerance that experience mild withdrawal symptoms each morning.
If you feel like that, it’s your body crying for you to take a break.
If you like an occasional cup of coffee or energy drink to get through something, then that’s fine. But if you ever feel like one isn’t working like it used to, you should take a break from caffeine to reset your tolerance, not up the dosage like an addict.
So?
I mean, this opinion isn’t really popular or unpopular. It’s just banal, unsolicited advice.
I think people often confuse “unpopular” with “uncommon”
I walk into work holding 2 tallboys of sugarfree energy drinks every day and every day someone with their gut hanging 4 inches over their belt tells me how unhealthy they are… like I fucking asked.
Yeah, Im a caffeine junky… and?
Yeah, makes sense that non coffee drinkers don’t care. I added the last bit cause I didn’t want people going “WELL I NEED IT BECAUSE I’M A TRUCKER AND DO 36 HOUR DRIVES!”, but instead I got people bringing up using it to self medicate medical conditions.
I have been called a puritanical joy hater by some coffee drinkers though, so clearly some people wildly dislike this opinion.
So I guess this was more of a “Opinion you probably don’t care about, unless you are defensive about being a coffee drinker”
It’s not that. I’d be happy to upvote an unpopular opinion like “Coffee should have the same ad restrictions as tobacco” or “Coffee should be scheduled alongside cocaine.”
Your post reads as a criticism disguised as an opinion.
It comes off as smarmy.
There’s a reason that the major sobriety programs have a tradition of not expressing opinions about what other people do with their lives, avoiding any opinion on temperance, or anything political, for that matter. It would be counterproductive and make them easier to dismiss as fringe wackos.
Ummm you do know trucking is regulated and you can’t drive for more than 11 hours a day.
Nah see…
I’m a coffee person and an addict.
I don’t resent my addiction like you seem to, there is no animosity in my relationship with coffee. I embrace my addiction and love it, and it loves me back by giving me just what I need. The high, the robust flavor, the aftertaste, the smell, the experience, everything. And 3 cups of black coffee? Bruh, more like a pot or two to get started (8 cup pots) before 7AM, then maybe a french press or an espresso , followed by perhaps a cup of instant or maybe I’ll put some coffee sprinkles in my protein shake. All of that before 11AM. Then if I’m going out in the evening, at least a double espresso and or if I’m out and about maybe an Americano or just a latte. Maybe hit a vending machine or grocery store and get an can of iced Mr Brown or a double shot.
When I was a smoker, there was nothing I loved more in the world than a nice cup of black coffee, something thick like motor oil, and a nice cigarette. I stopped smoking for the health impacts which are material, but I didn’t resent it when I was smoking. I enjoyed every minute of it. Its the same with coffee. This puritanical approach to self-hating anything that brings you joy. Its a bit silly and not for me. I have no shame in the things that bring me pleasure. Its a far deeper shame to avoid pleasure because of some intrinsic guilt about it.
When I was a smoker, there was nothing I loved more in the world than a nice cup of black coffee, something thick like motor oil, and a nice cigarette.>
Fuuuck yeah, talk dirty to me, Daddy. God, I miss that, and I haven’t touched a cigarette in 13 years. Still drink coffee every day though.
That’s a lot of words to say “I’m addicted to a stimulant and spend a lot of time making how I take said stimulant taste good”
That’s a lot of words to say you have no pleasure in your life and think no one else should either.
Caffeine is a stimulant that has withdrawals. I prefer my joys to not threaten to harm me if I stop using them.
Good food doesn’t kick you in the stomach if you eat it every day for a week, then don’t for a week.
You sound like a puritanical bore.
I’m puritanical because I prefer the things I consume to not harm me if I stop taking them? Like today I went to an indoor water park and had some lovely shrimp salad.
Those two are wonderful because if I choose not to go swimming tomorrow (hard to go every day during the winter) I will not have a variety of physical negative side effects. I also don’t have to eat more shrimp or risk a mental break down.
You could have had a fun back and forth discussion here, not come across like a douche nozzle
I would contend that if you’re making American style drip coffee you don’t like coffee that much.
I would contend that there’s 501 ways to make coffee and telling others their way is “wrong” is a douche move.
I would contend that using coffee as a douche is something you should discuss with your doctor before doing.
Can we still buttchug it though?
I LIKE COFFEE
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If your drip comes out tasting not amazing, that’s on you. Drip is a perfectly acceptable way to make coffee. Its just a matter of grind, roast, and filter parameters. Its not like I don’t also have about 15 other ways to make coffee. The biggest factor in drip (imo) is actually the hot-plate most american coffee makers come with. This absolutely ruins the coffee very quickly. Turn that off and just accept that you’ll need to finish the whole pot in about 40 minutes (longer if you use a vacuum urn). I have no problem finishing a pot of coffee in 30-50 minutes.
The amount of people that think all drip coffee is the same is wild. Yeah what you get out of a keurig cup is probably going to be shit, because they use shit coffee. Some people are perfectly fine with that, and that’s just as valid as those of us that put way the fuck too much effort into it.
Sometimes I take the time to use my mocha pot. Sometimes I’ll make cold brew. Sometimes I just want a good cup of coffee with minimal effort. With the right settings and coffee, drip coffee is going to come out a helluva lot better than anything you’re gonna get at a chain place.
The cooler coffee is, the longer it stays tasting good. Making an extra cup or two and letting it sit at room temp for an hour or two and then heating it up in the microwave works for me. Too large a quantity may not cool down fast enough, and if you heat it back up to scalding that can have an negative effect.
Yeah, depending on the design, though, those hotplates can really damage the flavor. Technology Connections does a great in-depth breakdown of how they do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp9H0MO-qS8
They are just way way way too hot. The pretty much start ruining the coffee right away.
Sorry if I was unclear. I’m in agreement with you that hot plates degrade coffee. I was recommending the let it cool down and heat it back up later approach.
Not only that, but coffee made well will taste fine cold/room temp.
Yeah, I prefer it hot, but my cold coffee is perfectly drinkable.
How is drip coffee differently scientifically from your snob version ? Espresso machine? Temp, water ratio? Please explain?
There is plenty of drip coffee that is perfectly good.
We know. We don’t care.
My specialty was addictions. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
eta: that sounds bitchy. It’s closer to a compulsive behavior that it is an addictive syndrome. There is more to addiction than a psychological drive to consume. Notably it requires a negative impact on social functioning along with a bunch of other criteria.
it requires a negative impact on social functioning
So they’re only an addict after they miss their morning coffee?
If their spouse is leaving them because it takes too long to make coffee in the morning, yes. Otherwise, no.
So by that interpretation, a high functioning alcoholic is not an addict?
“High functioning” is typically used to describe someone who is demonstrating competency at work. Academia, law, and medicine are full of these types. I’ve worked for/with a lot of them.
Home and social interactions definitely show the strain before professional life does. It’s possible for an alcoholic to function at very high levels professionally for years, but I can guarantee there are social impacts in their personal domain. Their old friendships erode, and change towards other heavy users. There are impacts in spouses and children. Their driving record may become affected, financial strains etc.
I’m confused. To me it sounds like social impacts are the results of an addiction, not part of the addiction itself. I would have thought it’s the addiction to a substance that drives changes in behaviour and results in the symptoms you describe - impacts to family, friendships, social standing. Whereas you’re saying that a body’s compulsive wanting for a specific substance is not an addiction if it doesn’t come with those social impacts. That just doesn’t sound logical to me, but hey, I’m not an expert.
Consider food. Most of eat several times a day. Every day. It’s not a problem because most people keep it under control and don’t overeat.
Some of us (me included) have a slightly disordered eating pattern. I binge eat occasionally followed by a period of restrictive eating punctuated by microbinges etc. Is it a problem? I’m 25 pounds overweight, but I hold a job, maintain an active social life, and even play a couple sports (badly) in rec leagues. My eating doesn’t affect my household finances so it’s all good.
If you watch one of those tv shows focused on very large people (and I don’t intend to body shame here) you will see something different. There are people who’s excessive eating negatively impacts their health and mobility. In many of the cases portrayed they are unable to hold a job, and much of a shows drama will focus on deteriorating personal relationships as people “choose” compulsive eating over the people in their life.
This range of behavior is true for all addictions. Many people can handle dabbling in the drug or activity. Many will occasionally wander over the line into problematic behavior but wander back. And some spiral in a pattern of misuse that is self destructive. It’s not the attraction of cocaine or Molly or Twinkies that’s the problem. It’s the continuation of use despite the negative impacts on the users life.
Policy makers struggle with this too. The basis of “harm reduction” as an approach is that we don’t judge the use, only the impact on the users life. If we give people access to safe regulated supplies, safe injection sites etc. many people can maintain jobs and keep their families together etc. Much of the negative impacts come not from use itself, but from the way we force people to behave in order to meet their needs.
You know you have a good post here when people are immediately hostile to you. And people who are replying specifically to tell you that they don’t care about your opinion, who clearly haven’t had their morning coffee.
As someone who just gets sweaty when they drink coffee, I don’t begrudge people who get a kick out of it. But there are too many people who make their caffeine addiction a part of their personality.
Specially egregious on the programmer sphere.
I often make jokes about it, but in reality, if I drink more than a cup of it in a day I start physically vibrating.
tell that to the Salt Lake City office 😭
Everything in life is a managed addiction. Balance is needed in all things. Ensuring your addictions are taking you in a direction you find productive is critical. Relationships, entertainment, reading/not reading, eating, social engagement, the internet, pets; everything is ultimately brain chemistry that creates addictions.
N… no?
That’s a complete misunderstanding of chemical additions. Caffeine is a stimulant with chemical withdrawals.
You don’t have chemical side effects for any of those things besides food.
Humans are literally entirely chemistry at all times. Literally anything that makes you happy/comfortable releases dopamine in your brain. Even dopamine can become addictive if applied too often, the ‘withdrawal’ would be feeling down cause you’re not as happy as usual.
You can be happy or not happy with relationships, which can cause your (misguided) definition of addiction to dopamine, and almost no part of that scenario involves external chemicals.
And all of that is just one example. You really need to attend a high school chemistry and/or biology class.
I would love to see what the withdrawals are for swimming.
Yes, I will probably be bummed. But I won’t get a mood disorder over it unless I’m already unstable, or vomit. I’ll be sad not having something I like, yeah. Withdrawals from a stimulant is different than “I’m feeling sad chemicals because the thing I like is gone”
It’s crazy that people are so determined to say nothing is wrong being addicted to a drug that they are refusing to admit there is a difference. I can also replace anything with other things. If I can’t swim, I can do other things I enjoy.
Who ever said anything about swimming? Are you just trying to deconstruct the points I made that you don’t understand? I mean you clearly have some kind of disorder, disassociative at least. Enjoy being constantly lauded for your understanding of sciences (or lack thereof).
Things I like = won’t make me vomit or cause me physical harm for not doing it
Caffeine = will cause physical harm/vomiting for not doing it.
If you insist you’re right, I can’t make you believe.
Also backfire effect is clearly in effect, me posting proof I’m right will just make stubborn coffee drinkers believe I’m wrong because of weird brain things. So that last post with evidence probably won’t sway anyone.
Lol wtf is serotonin?
Although you are probably right, I resent and dislike your opinion. Take my upvote.
Yeah… This one hurts to agree with. I’m going to go rethink my life now…
I’m a coffee person because I enjoy coffee. I love the taste, I love making it, steaming milk, taking my time with espresso, and trying different brewing methods.
It’s not about the caffeine. That’s just a useful side effect.
At the same time, you’re probably not drinking 3+ cups a day. There’s a reason you have a spit cup when cupping coffee.
The struggle of loving coffee and being a very caffeine sensitive insomniac is real.
A ‘spit cup’?!?! WTF are you talking about. It’s not chewing tobacco.
real coffee aficionados don’t lower themselves to actually taste it - quel horreur!
I cut down to one cup a day, and so now I treat that one cup like a fine wine; I do all the fancy prep, have good beans, and take my sweet ass tiiiiimmmme drinking it. I savour the hell out of it haha
I love coffee and recently had to go to one cup when I wake up and then no other caffeine for the day as part of working through a sleep disorder.
It’s been really, really beneficial for my mental health. I am sleeping better, interrupting less, and generally have more appropriate appetite for food (I have issues with late night eating that are essentially gone).
I didn’t want to do this but it’s been pretty good.
I still enjoy a decaf Americano every so often in the afternoon.
I’ll have you know I’m just self medicating my ADHD
It’s a double whammy too because occasionally I’ll just get bored of coffee and drop it, then a few days later I’m wondering why I have a gnarly headache.
That is a whole other problem with the medical care that I’m not ready to cope with.
Do your best not to build a tolerance if you can! Your poor kidneys will thank you.
(But if it’s working it’s probably super hard to take tolerance breaks)
Take tolerance breaks for mental disorders? Are you actually insane?
I make sure not to overdo it because too much coffee gives me major heartburn, so I guess I have a built-in dosage limit. And luckily I don’t have terrible withdrawal symptoms if I miss a dose.
But it’s definitely better than the 2 liters of Coke I drank every day in high school.
Your post is idiotic. 2L of coca cola is two cups of coffee so your nonsense tale is meaningless
I’m pretty sure you wildly misinterpreted their point.
Completely unnecessary, and you shouldn’t blame the other person because you didn’t understand their point.
Two cups of coffee is a significantly healthier choice than 2L of coca cola. That was obviously the point they were making. There’s no need to jump down their throat about it, and it’s telling that you jump to that over something relatively innocuous.
Your post is super mean. I meant the sugar content.
Coffee actually is an effective medication for my depression. It has similar effects to buproprion on me (which is a amphetamine replacement class drug, though not an amphetamine itself), but to a lesser degree. This is good, because bupropion causes me to have tachycardia and hypomania. This is independent to any addiction, since I’ve gone years without having any. That there are tolerance levels to it, like any drug, doesn’t mean it’s not an effective self medication for some folks. And that correlation has been proven in scientific studies.
Eh, I’m fine with my addictions. Life is too long as is and I only get one, I’m not gonna spend my time here avoiding things that taste good and make me feel good.
Give this a listen
And also maybe get off your high horse while you’re at it.
The people who try to compare caffeine to a drug are both trying to make a mute point and have likely never done any real drugs that are truly addictive.
Yeah under the strict technical definition a drug is something you ingest that affects your body on some level. Yes caffeine is technically a drug under this definition as its a stimulant which represses the chemical signals in your brain responsible for tiredness.
Billions of people drink multiple cups a day, and some feel like they would really like some coffee in the morning. If you want to define that minor desire for coffee as an ‘addict craving’ well I guess nobody is stopping you from seeing it that way. So there, if you want to play the technicality game and do some mental gymnastics with your world view then I guess all frequent coffee drinkers are technially addicts to the most commonly used drug in the world.
Buuuut, heres where reality comes in. On the grand scale of all drugs that exist in the world today and their level of addictiveness/potential to destroy your life caffine is so so so far off the left side of the scale it may as not be there.
When we have a serious big boy conversation about drugs and their potential harms with people who actually know what they are talking about and lived that life, nobody is going to bring up caffeine.
I’ve worked in rehabs. Ive seen first hand what true addiction and harmful drugs can do to people. I’ve had friends whos lives/minds were destroyed by real hard opioids and narcotics. I’ve helped homeless strangers try to build up their lives from scratch. A vast majority of them had issues with alcohol and opioids, you want to know the demographic of affine addicts we treated? None.
You want to consider caffeine as a drug and point out how ‘lots of people are technically an addict lol’ fine fair enough. Just keep in mind that real truly hard drugs exist which caffeine can’t hold a candle too, that severe addiction is real and infinitely more hellish than coffee cravings in the morning. And maybe by trying to compare the two and think of them on the same level is an unnuanced overly simplified opinion
What? As a neuroscientist: caffeine is not “technically a drug” it is a drug. And yes, people are absolutely addicted to it. That “craving” you’re talking about is withdrawal and it’s real. Doesn’t matter if “billions*” drink it every day. It’s no mental gymnastics to say that there are millions if not billions of coffee addicts. Addict is not a defined term in the psych/neuro field so I would argue that that many people who would go through withdrawal without it are all addicted.
Wtf does it matter what other drugs are out there? Not everything is a competition. Current dependence on caffeine in our society is absolutely a problem as a result of too much stress and work pressure on everyone. Caffeine is not a cure to that.
Tl;dr: Yes caffeine is objectively a drug and yes very many people are addicted to it.
*Citation needed
I mean y’all are both right, no? Caffeine is a drug but its addictive nature is nothing compared to other drugs.
The secondary point, as mentioned, is “who said anything about comparative addictiveness?” Is heroin not bad because it isn’t as addictive as meth*? How is that relevant to the point that coffee can be addictive? Saying “claiming coffee is addictive just shows you’ve never been on hard narcotics” is at the level of an ad hominem, as if their point is invalidated by their sobriety.
*I have no idea the relative addictiveness of either (or really any drugs)
If you take it as an enema you can handle twice the lethal dose.
James Hoffman has a great video about this with scientific analysis to prove it. Basically the people that claim they’re “coffee addicts” are often drinking something that isn’t caffeinated like one might expect. A good pour over has close to 80mg of caffeine in it, but a weaker Starbucks/gas station/K-cup/instant coffee has only 25-45~mg of caffeine per cup. You effectively need 3 cups a day to equate what you can get from 1 perfectly good quality cup of coffee. Even a Starbucks “double shot” is like drinking 7/8ths of a proper pour over. I have a lot of friends that are “coffee addicts” and drink 2-3 Starbucks a day.
James Hoffman really is the endgame of coffee nerds. I love his stuff.
He does the thing I enjoy seeing most. It’s not just enough to drink coffee. We have to know about it from top-to-bottom. How to pull from it everything we can. His science the shit out of it is one of my favorite things. If you like his sort of “honed” approach to something and you like details like him I’d recommend AmmoNYC for car detailing. He’s like the James Hoffman of car cleaning. It’s not just enough to do something, but to tear it down and figure out how to do the process better with science and perfect it.
I’ve had a few of Ammo’s kids pop up in my recommendations, they’ve been great too.
And yeah, that’s the main reason I love coffee as much as I do. There’s so much to learn about it, so many ways you can tweak things. It’s fun.
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Careful of the car detailing path. It starts with things like learning to not swirl your paint and occasionally decontaminating it. Suddenly you have a $1500 steam extractor and $800 polishers. I’m not sure if drugs are better, but sometimes I feel like they’d be cheaper. The high I get from cleaning my cars, or cleaning others cars though is totally worth it. My biggest hurdle was just getting a polisher and putting polish to paint. I was scared as hell about messing it up, but sometimes you gotta stumble to run.
Espresso has less caffeine than large mug of drip coffee especially of morning light or medium roasts. And many coffee makers just make twice more water in double shot, not twice more coffee.
