If grandpa’s still voting R, he’s voting for the fascists of the 21st century.
If you want to know what you would’ve done living in Germany in the 1930’s…
Plenty of people who go to the shooting range vote D
Hence the inclusion of the word "if ".
I think people would be surprised how many liberal gun owners are out there (including myself). The difference is we don’t worship guns like the lunatics on the right.
Hell yeah. Give me that big phat D.
Sup o/
It’s IMPOSSIBLE to like guns and be a DEMONcrat. God gave me a gun, a full case of beer and a straight republican ticket!!!
In 1930s germany most people would vote for the facists, people did not turn to facism because they were born evil. That is to say, if you were german and lived through the effects of the end of ww1, you would be facist too
In 1930s germany most people would vote for the facists …
This is a common misconception. Even at the height of their power, the Nazis got only 43% of the votes. They were able to win elections because the other parties were unable to come together and run a joint candidate list. If the Social Democrats and Communists had formed a coalition, they might have won instead.
The NSDAP got 43,9% but since another party, the DNVP which was another right wing party they formed a coalition with, got 8% they had majority. So most people who voted did vote for the fascists.
Fair point, the DNVP was a right-wing party, but I wouldn’t call them fascist. They were dissolved after Hitler won absolute power (although not imprisoned or killed), and some even worked with the German Resistance.
The Italian Liberals of the 20s adopted a “wait and see” approach, leaving the outnumbered socialists, anarchists and communists to fight both the fascists and the loyalists alone. Then when it was clear that the fascists were winning, the Liberals joined them.
I suspect that the 30s Social Democrats of Germany were similarly irresolute (though didn’t join before they were forced to) when dealing with the Nazi threat. Centrists tend to be, whether center-right like the Italian Liberals or center-left like the German Social Democrats.
I suspect that the 30s Social Democrats of Germany were similarly irresolute (though didn’t join before they were forced to) when dealing with the Nazi threat.
The social democrats started the iron front, they fought the SA in the streets, they didn’t join them. Their party was banned and members where thrown in jail once the Nazis won.
I sit corrected, then. Should have known better than to think Social Democrats as useless as liberals in fighting fascists tbh, given what we’re seeing today…
I’ve gotten fucked at every step of my life by capitalists and other greedy fuckheads, and it hasn’t made me fascist and I didn’t and never will vote for Trump.
Some people are just pathetic and want someone else to solve their problems. Some people are just stupid and cannot see how their problems will never be solved by a greedy asshole getting more power.
Some people are just terrible and will look down on others for merely existing. That doesn’t make them evil. It makes them FUNCTIONALLY evil. A hand does not need to know why in order to strangle someone.
If you went through what they have, you would vote for trump. Their environment made them who they are.
I literally HAVE gone through what they have. I’ve grown up and lived in red states almost my entire life, but thank you for assuming my experience.
Again, stop infantalizing them. They are grown-ass adults PRETENDING to be victims of things that aren’t even victimizing them. They are pathetic losers taking the bait.
If you’re a fish, taking the bait means you die. If you’re a fascist, taking the bait means the “other” dies. They are not worth the pity you are giving them.
So what’s the excuse for the people who had what is probably the cushiest life in all of human history?
1930s germany was not cushy
His point is that even if the Germans of 8-9 decades ago were stuck in a bad position such that fascism was their best choice, the people who are leaning into fascist ideals today don’t have that same excuse.
Its not an excuse, but you also cant say that people voting right nowadays were born evil either. Its for a reason.
So what you’re saying is - it’s their choice. That seems worse, no?
Its not their choice. They had it worse than the 1930s germans did
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You must be fun at parties.
Yes, boomer humor tends to be unfunny when you consider the real fact that the US is one year away from having open genocide of minorities and other “undesirables.”
Having to live armed every day because fascist shitbags are openly trying to kill you tends to suck the fun out of parties.
Ok.
when did the left agree we had to lie about the right to make them sound bad? That we just had to make up bullshit that obviously is a lie to go after people on the right?
Mate, there are prominent US politicians saying they aim to destroy the issue of trans people, to find a solution to a the trans problem. What do you think that means?
Where’s the lie?
They’re right, though.
Grandpa won’t need to go to Germany for round 3 with the NAZIs. They are right around the corner wearing MAGA hats.
Generous to presume that Grandpa isn’t one of them.
Germany will go to the US to fight Nazism, sounds about right.
Biggest plot twisy
Unfortunately not that big of a twist. It wasn’t until wartime that the US fully turned its back on the Nazis, they had an uncomfortably huge amount of support in America.
Yep, was thinking he checks the box next to the ® on the ballot. Older,boomer generation, into guns pushes the odds strongly in that direction.
E: typo
Hey look, ageism! Remember the participants in the flower power/hippy movements would be in their 80s right about now, and I’m going to go out on a limb and say most of them probably didn’t completely flip 180⁰ on their beliefs and become gun toting MAGA voters.
In other words, not old people fit your description
what?
You call out ageism, then mention old hippies who don’t change their beliefs?
Dude, figure out what you mean.
My father died a few months before the 2016 election, but he was a grandpa in his 80s and he practically died a socialist. He would have been one of the loudest anti-Trump voices you had ever heard had he been aware enough through his dementia to be politically active. I was able to tell him that a social democrat was running for president before the dementia got too far gone and I think he was able to take it in. I’m glad he didn’t get to find out that Bernie lost.
Those MAGA folks might be the more immediate threat.
Well, Fascism is on the rise in Germany (and pretty much everywhere else)… Makes me incredibly sad and frustrated to see what’s currently happening
It’s as if people have learned absolutely nothing from the past; not even the Germans. It’s enough to make you cry.
There is a set of grievances and motivations the bigots have that are not being addressed.
And no one has come up with an effective counter strategy to the fascist manipulation playbook yet.
Yes, that’s the thing. I find it terribly frustrating that the same old playbook still works with all its pamphlet-like explanations, its false accusations and its pretended messiah logic: “It’s the foreigners’ fault that you can’t find job; a strong leader will stand up for you and save us all if you just follow him unconditionally” and so on and so forth. It simply boggles my mind how people can still believe that - in Germany, with its terrible Nazi past, just as much as in America, where an obviously criminal billionaire pretends to care about those left behind and dissatisfied. It’s almost as if people want to be exploited and instrumentalized against their own interests. I don’t get it.
🤔🤔🤔
Having hung around them before, I think it’s because what tyrants actually promise them is the right to be openly hateful without consequence. See, they believe drivel about how people different from them are the cause of their problems long before fascism shows up; they were always bigots and likely always will be. The fascists simply mirror their thoughts, speech and behaviors openly, making the followers feel safe to express shit they already believed.
It’s not the fascist leaders that are responsible, it’s the people for thinking the way that they do.
That’s probably the way it is. Unfortunately, this explanation doesn’t give you much hope in humanity when so many people seem to think this way.
Allow me to pontificate upon the subject…
If someone is bigoted like that, the only way to solve the problem is to remove either them or the victim from the society. That would require either destroying or exiling one group or for one group to willingly put enough distance between themselves and their enemies such that conflict is impossible and the separation is maintained by default, but it’s the only way for a progressive society to enforce its values.
Of course, there are ideologues and charlatans who don’t want that to happen so they exploit the weaker and more insecure party – the progressives – by telling them it’s immoral to do anything to resolve the problem, usually under the grounds that it would require force to do it, which is not actually true, and therefore convince progressives to suffer under the thumb of a group who are basically their abusers.
It’s like an abusive relationship. The only way the abuse stops is if the abuser is killed or the victim runs away for good. Arrest and conviction of an abuser never actually stops abuse; it only exacerbates it as the abuser is much better at manipulating other people than their victims and thus turns third parties against the victims, completely subjugating them. So the victim is left with two options: either kill the abuser and face the wrath of the community, or run away and spend their lives looking over their shoulder knowing their abuser and the third parties will hurt them again at any time, stripped of participation in the community they had a right to.
And like the abuse victim, the progressives are faced with this choice: either warfare with the conservatives, or be forced to flee and start over… somewhere. Europe and South America maybe. And if the progressives run away and cede that territory, the conservatives will have unfettered control over nuclear weapons, meaning there’s nowhere to hide.
I don’t think the progressives are capable of winning a civil war once the fascists take power at the end of the year, though. That’s what bothers me. This is going to spiral downward into a bilateral genocide; it’s the logical conclusion of the chain of events that have transpired since the end of the last civil war. People are too afraid to even advocate for war because of decades of ideologues and corporations exploiting nonviolence to propagandize everyone else into submission.
So tl;dr there doesn’t seem to be any positive outcome possible. I really, REALLY don’t like the way things are turning. Progressives need to nut up and reject the brainwashing they were subjected to all their lives, and start training and preparing for a fight, as in today, but shills and trolls might make it impossible for them to do so. Running away might not work because nukes are things. Then again, warfare might not either because nukes are things. And submission will only lead to slavery and death.
🤔🤔🤔
What was that Chinese curse put on people, back in the day? “May you live in interesting times…”
Exactly
I don’t think any of them really even think Trump will even actually help them, let alone any idea that he cares about them.
The only thing that matters to them is that Trump has normalized open expressions of hate, racism, bigotry, xenophobia, and misogyny…and wrapped it up in a shrink wrap of jingoism, making it as simple as possible for anyone and everyone to get on board with it.
That’s bad enough, but he also bundles fascism as well as the graft that follows trump like a shadow with the package.
Basically he’s weaponized the fear of the unknown to built himself a cult. I would venture to guess that less than half of his supporters would have any clear, concrete, positive (that is, as opposed to the negative “he’d undo this” or “he won’t do that”) response when asked what, specifically, they think Trump will do that will help the country as a whole or them specifically.
And that’s because the thing they want from him they’ve already gotten, and they just want him to keep it up: telling them the most comforting message of all: it’s okay.
"It’s okay you don’t have a nice house or a good job or can’t afford healthcare or can’t put enough good food on the table. It’s okay your family is all fucked up. It’s okay that costs are going up, the rich are getting richer while the poor get poorer.
And it’s okay because it’s not your fault. You’re not responsible for this. It’s bigger than you can control or even affect. So you don’t even have to try. I’m not going to make it better (and in fact I’ll do my best to make it much worse), but that’s okay too because I’m not going to ask you to shoulder any of the blame for any of this!
No, not your fault and I’m not asking you to do anything. Whose fault is it? Why it’s the Democrats and the Mexicans and the Muslims and the women and the liberals and the immigrants and the colleges and the “urban populations” (hint: you can identify them by their skin tone!) and the “woke radical left” and China and Europe and pretty much anyone else that doesn’t look, act, and sound exactly like you. That’s whose fault it is.
And since it’s not your fault and you can’t do anything about it, I give you permission to hate them for it. And I’ll do and say all the horrible, vile, shit that I want you to think and say. And because I did it first, that means it’s okay to just go ahead and say what you’ve been thinking for years. If we all say it together, it’ll become normal."
Basically he tells them they’re victims, and that he feels sorry for them, and that they should feel sorry for themselves too, and that because they’re the victims here, they’re allowed to do and say whatever they want and it’s okay.
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Our most effective weapon is banning Nazi parties so far.
Plot twist: he is German.
Based antifascist grandpa
“In case they want round three, so we can waltz in years late and claim victory, then spend decades destabilising the planet for profit oooooeeeeeee”
This kind of “America did nothing in WW2” rhetoric is almost as r-word’ed as “America soloed WW2.” You’re an idiot if you think America was “years late” and didn’t play a huge role in the European front. Not even to address the Pacific Theatre.
Even prior to direct military entry, the US was providing mass amounts of aid to fight the Axis. We were giving the UK destroyers, arms, and ammunition immediately after the Nazi invasion of Poland, gave billions to China to help fight the Japanese invasion, and started arming the Soviet Union under the Lend-Lease as soon as Germany invaded them.
We also deployed to Iceland to take over the Brits’ post there so they could free up troops to the mainland.
Even ignoring the European front, which is stupid, the US was instrumental in the African front and neutralizing Italy.
But nah, the US kicking ass and stacking bodies on 3 different fronts wasn’t important to winning the war. Nope.
Likewise (related to aid) churning out liberty ships at the rate of 3 ships every other day to counter lost cargo ships was totally superfluous and not at all crucial for England.
Everyone knows both world wars were won by a single anthropomorphic 1911 pistol.
Selling the UK destroyers, arms, and ammunition.
Congress wasn’t so keen on taking a side until forced to.
Y-you’re telling me that America wasn’t willing to just give away billions of dollars in aid in the middle of the worst economic disaster in the county’s history???
Yes, exactly. Did you read the comment I originally replied to which claims the opposite?
Not to mention the Britain was actually winning the war when we entered it
I lived in Russia, and in History class I was taught that Stalin singlehandedly showed up to save those poor helpless Europeans from bloody nazis, because it was the right thing to do.
When I loved in Europe, it were the Jewish partisans who won WW2 through brain drain on Germany, and the stupid Nazis killed themselves.
In the US I found out that the thing in Europe was typical Medieval European Kingdoms in a fight, and the real high-tech stuff was in the Pacific.
Now as a programmer, I know who truly won WW2: it was our legendary bro Alan all along.
WW2 was won with British Intelligence, American steel and Russian blood.
Unfair to Ukrainians, Belorussians and baltic countries!
If you haven’t read it, ‘Cryptonomicon’ by Neal Stephenson sounds like it would be your kind of book. The story alternates between the grandfather, who helped protect the Enigma secret from the Nazis, to the grandson, who is trying to start an online bank. There is hidden treasure, heroic US Marines, mysterious wizards, and tooth extractions.
Is the cryptonomicon referencing actual cryptography, or cryptocurrency nonsense? The Enigma is cryptography, but the online bank thing makes me think it’ll touch the cryptocurrency stuff.
The book came out around 1998, so it might have invented the idea of cryptocurrency.
After I read it, I discussed it with another fellow. He told me that he’d shown one passage to his wife, an astrophysics student. She showed it to her professor, who told her that this was advanced math.
Try it for yourself.
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You being offended is not my problem or my responsibility to mitigate. Insulting words exist. Deal with it.
I agree with you that censoring the word is irritating and unnecessary.
And retard is an insult, not a medical term. It literally doesn’t matter if it even was in the past because it isn’t anymore; words evolve and change over time because that’s how language works. If retard is a slur, so is idiot, imbecile and moron. None of those four are slurs. We’re allowed to call each other stupid.
Ok so I’m by far an expert on world wars but from I understand, America did play a rather isolationist position prior to pearl harbor. We can agree that politically America had some pull on things going on in Europe but they didn’t actively put boots on the ground until shit got really close. Giving others weapons to fight with is one thing. Sacrificing your own lives for the world is a different one
Yes WW2 started in 1939, and Pearl Harbor was in december 1941. So it took 2 years for USA to get involved. But USA was such a massive influence, because their industrial output was without comparison bigger than anything else in the world. It was bigger than Europe combined. USA was also a major factor in keeping the trans Atlantic traffic open, and defeating the German submarines. D-Day would have been impossible without USA, as USA was the biggest force. USA also suffered the most losses in operation overlord, with almost twice the casualties and killed as UK. All that is apart from doing by far the most in the effort against Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Overlord
It’s denigrating to the American effort to call that waltzing in.
Some people would say that WW2 started when Japan invaded China.
Some would say 1935, with the invasion of Ethiopia. There’s also a large body of historians who view WW1 and WW2 as being a single event. To sort of piggy-back off my above reply, the idea that WW2 “began” in 1939 is as Anglocentric as Americans thinking it started in 1941.
Supposedly, Foch said the WW1 Armistice wasn’t peace, it was a 20 year truce.
Maybe, but the traditional view is 1939.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_IIFunny how different countries have different traditions.
I’ve always just seen 1939 as the beginning of WW2, and I’ve never seen it questioned since I learned about it in school in the 70’s. But maybe it’s seen different in Asia. And yes we also learned about the truce that was forced on the Germans, so that’s been taken into account all along. It’s still WWI and WW2, not WWI 1914-1945.
If it wasn’t for the supply shipments to Britain, they likely would have lost before things got close in the first place. Note it wasn’t just weapons but also food and medical supplies.
Edit: Also, the shipments were regularly attacked by German U-boats, so there absolutely was risk to American lives still.
America did play a rather isolationist position prior to pearl harbor.
Britain did play a rather isolationist position prior to the invasion of Poland. It’s just a feature of diplomacy to avoid armed conflict at all costs. Kind of like when Britain secured “peace for our time” by offering Czechoslovakia to Hitler as a Sacrificial Lamb..
they didn’t actively put boots on the ground until shit got really close.
False comparison. There was no alternative to “boots on the ground” for the European Allies when the war happened in their backyard, but there was certainly an alternative to the U.S. offering a quarter-trillion dollars (adjusted) in aid to Europe.
The US Merchant Marines were sinking German U-boats nearly a year before the US declared war.
Yeah they wanted the UK to give it all its patents first. They got paid off.
Just say retarded, man.
We get it, you have no fucking clue how wwii played out. Maybe you shouldn’t talk about shit you don’t understand
If he trains to shoot Nazis, he should just pin a MAGA cap to his range target.
The gun mount only turns 45°.
But that’s his best cap!
Grandpa may not like fascists. Don’t make assumptions.
When I was a little kid I asked my grandfather one time what it was like to “fight evil”. His response was something along the lines of “I didn’t fight evil. They were just a bunch of scared kids doing what they were told. Just like me.”
My grandfather fought in Europe, but Japan was still what kicked off WWII. So, I was super nervous about bringing home the woman that would become my first wife for the first time. Her family was from Okinawa.
When we got there he sat down at the kitchen table and talked to her for a long time. I was in and out doing stuff for the dinner, but they looked happy enough. Later that day he caught me outside and gave me a hug. He told me that she was a good woman and I’d be crazy if I didn’t marry her.
I really miss my grandfather. He was mostly a good dude.
Here’s a picture of him during the battle of the bulge. It’s from a book I have, but this picture was originally published in “Yank” magazine. The original clipping sat over his chair in the living room my entire life.
Respect, going to the range can be a family experience.
Not so sure about Germany round 3 though.
They’re still pretty authoritarian like always. Only now it’s You must be inclusive! At any cost!
What are you on about?
Those cultural Marxist woke moralists won’t even let me smoke crack, hang dong, and squeeze off a few RPGs at the range anymore. What’s the world coming to, man? It’s just clean, harmless fun - it’s not like that kind of thing ever did anyone any harm.
Thanks Obama.
I doubt they’re nearly as nationalist or expansionist as they were back then. But I know fuckall about Germany.
Except they aren’t. They don’t even have something you could call an army anymore.
I still see Germany as it was mid WWII
A far-right fascist government engaging in a series of genocides and an aggressively expansionist war?
Might be time for a trip to the optometrist.
Well to be fair Germany tends to show up in a lot of war movies and shows
ITT: weirdly a lot of people assuming that Grandpa votes Republican based on nothing besides his age and love of guns
Dude looks and acts exactly like my great grandfather who served in the navy kn WWII. He was a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat and hated Republicans until he died in 2017.
… So was my great grandfather, but he was an old school Southern Democrat, he even voted straight ticket. I’d be willing to bet he wouldn’t be fond of modern Democrats.
People forget that the Democrats of the early 1900s aren’t the same as today. Remember that Republicans are the party of Lincoln, but I wouldn’t be surprised if modern Republicans wanted to bring back slavery.
Is that what the republicans you’ve asked have said?
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So fucking dumb.
Funny thing, he’ll never expect to be part ofround three, coming from his maga buddies that are shooting right beside him.
Excellent 👌
