Also, never sold any data to any authorities, all the security issues came from users not paying attention to privacy settings. The stigmatisation of telegram as ‘russian messenger’, even though the team that made it and maintains it left russia a long ago, prevents this software from getting its rightly deserved popularity
Good privacy brings inconvenience, don’t even think this compromise could ever be avoided. Convenient WhatsApp has nothing to do with privacy, whatever their PR department might want you to think.
This compromise is unavoidable, and every user should be forced to make the choice. Every kind of defaults is bad. Can you imagine that a messenger app that forces you to choose your place on the scale of security-convenience during onboarding process gets wide adoption? Me neither…
Telegram defaults are very sane for common users, and they have very easy and convinient way to start a secure chat. Best available messenger app so far.
privacy should be enabled by default and not through some hidden settings
What’s hidden about Settings > Privacy? We’re not talking about editing some INI file or crawling through the Windows Registry here. I agree with you that some defaults can be better but claiming those are hidden is just wrong, man.
Telegram is in every way better. My primary reason for prefering Telegram over anything else are bots (API specifically). I mean bots functionality is so awesome that I can’t properly describe how awesome it is. <3
Why tf is this downvoted if it’s true? Telegram’s own encryption is a joke, you can’t enable it in group chats or through desktop clients. There’s also part fo ToS that states you can’t use your own encryption in Telegram, which is pretty suspicious of a supposed privacy-friendly messenger
Because it is not true. WhatsApp maybe encrypted but not if you allow apple/Google backup and there is multiple known cases of backdoor.
And telegram is encrypted. The End to end encryptions has to be activated in 1 to 1 messaging if wanted. But, still, messages are encrypted for other messaging.
Also, in my country my phone number is directly liked to my name, by law. As such, Telegram offer way more privacy and security than Signal or WhatsApp as there is the possibility to use a username and hide the phone number.
And anyway, most of people don’t really care. Telegram is better as it offer way more features.
WhatsApp has an e2ee backup option and according to Signal WhatsApp doesn’t have a backdoor. Telegram does not encrypt group chats, which is terrible for privacy and security. Hiding the phone number is a solid feature, I admit. But it hardly protects you from the government, especially if you become a high-profile target.
That is the biggest reason I don’t trust Signal. They implemented Whatsapp’s encryption and while technically the encryption hasn’t been broken, the way it works forces you to leave data on your device, which has been proven dangerous in practice for the kind of people it sets out to protect.
The encryption is set out to protect people from man in the middle (server admins reading your data). If your device is compromised then nothing can help you, the attacker can just open the app
People might argue you could just use Discord if you want bots but Discord is so bloated an sluggish in comparison to Telegram’s minimalist native clients for every OS (even Linux).
Telegram by default does not send end-to-end encrypted messages (only in secret chats) and thus can be considered very unsafe as the server owner can literally read all your messages.
They give the user the impression that they are similar secure to e2e encrypted messengers but really are not since most users just start a normal chat.
This also means that, in theory, surveillance is very possible and likely as the russians are not really to be trusted by anyone. Privacy nightmare.
IIRC the reason they don’t do e2e encryption is because you can access the information from the desktop without having access to the phone, you cannot do that with whatsapp, every desktop connection must pass through the phone, and that’s mighty annoying.
Yeah, you need to trust them that they will save the data in their servers in a secure way, but they have not betrayed the users’ trust since they are running, and several people trust them.
Well, the fact that telegram normal/group chats are not encrypted is not true either. I think I know how is signal doing it, and I wish telegram upgraded it’s services, but for now it’s without any kind of doubt the most seamless chat service I have ever used, with the integrations, stickers and all that. I’ll give signal a try though, GL moving all the friend group chats though.
Well, for starters, Signal doesn’t have a web version so I cannot use it in managed pcs, bummer. In any case, I’ll check it out but I highl doubt that the user experience will be even close.
Lmao it’s not. It doesn’t have nearly the same stickers, no animated stickers, no reactions, no instant video messages.
Encryption is not part of the user experience, that’s an underlying security messure that he user doesn’t feel. It’s important but it’s not part of the user experience.
WhatsApp by default backs up to Google drive, which is laughably insecure.
I don’t know how good is WhatsApp’s e2e implementation, I’ve heard good things about protocol though. But I do know Telegram protocol documentation contains all information needed to implement e2e capable Telegram client, and their e2e is really good, I’ve seen it done by my friend and as I’m a programmer and am interested in cryptography, I followed his work very closely.
I still do not trust e2e group chats, it’s a shaky point in security protocols. There was some kerfuffle about WhatsApp being able to silently add invisible listeners to group chats, wasn’t there?
Telegram very explicitly chooses the right amount of security and makes user aware of inconveniences this level of security brings along. WhatsApp lies in user’s face, making you think it’s secure and convenient.
edit: btw I’m Telegram premium subscriber and love it. I subscribed for the ability to convert voice messages into text. I am aware of privacy concerns, voice messages get sent to some 3rd party for this to work. Pretty often this speech-to-text works not very good, I expect it’s much better for English language though. I still love my Telegram premium, for being able to support developer and to lower the chance of being the product. Cost is negligible, benefits are tangible.
Every service has a product they sell, if a service is free — you are the product.
Need I remind you WhatsApp is owned by Meta? Free service from creators of Facebook and our mutual respect to their privacy practices, all in the same sentence, yeah.
Telegram by default does not send end-to-end encrypted messages (only in secret chats)
When I tap the new message icon in the lower right corner, Telegram asks me which type of message I want to send. There is no default there. Maybe other clients do it differently from the main Android client but here there is no default.
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Also, never sold any data to any authorities, all the security issues came from users not paying attention to privacy settings. The stigmatisation of telegram as ‘russian messenger’, even though the team that made it and maintains it left russia a long ago, prevents this software from getting its rightly deserved popularity
privacy should be enabled by default and not through some hidden settings
Telegram’s default settings are still way way better for your privacy than whatsapp which doesn’t even has any additional layer of security unlike tg
Good privacy brings inconvenience, don’t even think this compromise could ever be avoided. Convenient WhatsApp has nothing to do with privacy, whatever their PR department might want you to think.
This compromise is unavoidable, and every user should be forced to make the choice. Every kind of defaults is bad. Can you imagine that a messenger app that forces you to choose your place on the scale of security-convenience during onboarding process gets wide adoption? Me neither…
Telegram defaults are very sane for common users, and they have very easy and convinient way to start a secure chat. Best available messenger app so far.
What’s hidden about Settings > Privacy? We’re not talking about editing some INI file or crawling through the Windows Registry here. I agree with you that some defaults can be better but claiming those are hidden is just wrong, man.
Telegram is in every way better. My primary reason for prefering Telegram over anything else are bots (API specifically). I mean bots functionality is so awesome that I can’t properly describe how awesome it is. <3
It’s not better in every way. WhatsApp is encrypted by default, Telegram not.
Why tf is this downvoted if it’s true? Telegram’s own encryption is a joke, you can’t enable it in group chats or through desktop clients. There’s also part fo ToS that states you can’t use your own encryption in Telegram, which is pretty suspicious of a supposed privacy-friendly messenger
Because it is not true. WhatsApp maybe encrypted but not if you allow apple/Google backup and there is multiple known cases of backdoor.
And telegram is encrypted. The End to end encryptions has to be activated in 1 to 1 messaging if wanted. But, still, messages are encrypted for other messaging. Also, in my country my phone number is directly liked to my name, by law. As such, Telegram offer way more privacy and security than Signal or WhatsApp as there is the possibility to use a username and hide the phone number.
And anyway, most of people don’t really care. Telegram is better as it offer way more features.
WhatsApp has an e2ee backup option and according to Signal WhatsApp doesn’t have a backdoor. Telegram does not encrypt group chats, which is terrible for privacy and security. Hiding the phone number is a solid feature, I admit. But it hardly protects you from the government, especially if you become a high-profile target.
That is the biggest reason I don’t trust Signal. They implemented Whatsapp’s encryption and while technically the encryption hasn’t been broken, the way it works forces you to leave data on your device, which has been proven dangerous in practice for the kind of people it sets out to protect.
The encryption is set out to protect people from man in the middle (server admins reading your data). If your device is compromised then nothing can help you, the attacker can just open the app
no matter what security you use when the attacker gets access to your (unlocked) phone you are fucked either way.
Data will always be on the end device unless you turn on disappearing messages which you can if you are concerned about that
People might argue you could just use Discord if you want bots but Discord is so bloated an sluggish in comparison to Telegram’s minimalist native clients for every OS (even Linux).
I see Discord as a communication platform while Telegram is a chat app.
I need chat app lol.
Telegram by default does not send end-to-end encrypted messages (only in secret chats) and thus can be considered very unsafe as the server owner can literally read all your messages.
They give the user the impression that they are similar secure to e2e encrypted messengers but really are not since most users just start a normal chat.
This also means that, in theory, surveillance is very possible and likely as the russians are not really to be trusted by anyone. Privacy nightmare.
IIRC the reason they don’t do e2e encryption is because you can access the information from the desktop without having access to the phone, you cannot do that with whatsapp, every desktop connection must pass through the phone, and that’s mighty annoying.
Yeah, you need to trust them that they will save the data in their servers in a secure way, but they have not betrayed the users’ trust since they are running, and several people trust them.
Not true. You can do that with Signal.
Well, the fact that telegram normal/group chats are not encrypted is not true either. I think I know how is signal doing it, and I wish telegram upgraded it’s services, but for now it’s without any kind of doubt the most seamless chat service I have ever used, with the integrations, stickers and all that. I’ll give signal a try though, GL moving all the friend group chats though.
> Well, the fact that telegram normal/group chats are not encrypted is not true either.
It’s not encrypted in any way that actually matters.
> it’s without any kind of doubt the most seamless chat service I have ever used, with the integrations, stickers and all that.
Yeah stickers are not high up on my list of priorities.
Well, for starters, Signal doesn’t have a web version so I cannot use it in managed pcs, bummer. In any case, I’ll check it out but I highl doubt that the user experience will be even close.
It’s not close. Signal is way better.
Lmao it’s not. It doesn’t have nearly the same stickers, no animated stickers, no reactions, no instant video messages.
Encryption is not part of the user experience, that’s an underlying security messure that he user doesn’t feel. It’s important but it’s not part of the user experience.
Telegram is owned by a person born in Russia, but has long moved out and lives in
GermanyDubai, where Telegram’s HQ is locatedTelegram is located in Dubai, where did you read about Germany?
I swear I remeber reading Germany. I searched it, yes its in Dubai
Use to be in Berlin
Oh alright, maybe I just had outdated information.
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WhatsApp by default backs up to Google drive, which is laughably insecure.
I don’t know how good is WhatsApp’s e2e implementation, I’ve heard good things about protocol though. But I do know Telegram protocol documentation contains all information needed to implement e2e capable Telegram client, and their e2e is really good, I’ve seen it done by my friend and as I’m a programmer and am interested in cryptography, I followed his work very closely.
I still do not trust e2e group chats, it’s a shaky point in security protocols. There was some kerfuffle about WhatsApp being able to silently add invisible listeners to group chats, wasn’t there?
Telegram very explicitly chooses the right amount of security and makes user aware of inconveniences this level of security brings along. WhatsApp lies in user’s face, making you think it’s secure and convenient.
edit: btw I’m Telegram premium subscriber and love it. I subscribed for the ability to convert voice messages into text. I am aware of privacy concerns, voice messages get sent to some 3rd party for this to work. Pretty often this speech-to-text works not very good, I expect it’s much better for English language though. I still love my Telegram premium, for being able to support developer and to lower the chance of being the product. Cost is negligible, benefits are tangible.
Every service has a product they sell, if a service is free — you are the product.
Need I remind you WhatsApp is owned by Meta? Free service from creators of Facebook and our mutual respect to their privacy practices, all in the same sentence, yeah.
When I tap the new message icon in the lower right corner, Telegram asks me which type of message I want to send. There is no default there. Maybe other clients do it differently from the main Android client but here there is no default.
Plus the best stickers ever.