BEVs are a dead end. It’s an idea older than internal combustion and is already obsolete. The world needs to shift focus to concepts like e-fuels or hydrogen cars.
The problem with fuels made from electricity is that pesky thing called thermodynamics. If an efuel was developed that was more efficient than electricity then we’d be able to use it to produce more electricity than we put in.
People are obsessed with efficiency because it’s the only metric that matters. We have a finite amount of resources on this planet and efficiency is the only way we can make it last. If you aren’t a ‘save the planet’ type of person then efficiency still matters because it’s directly correlated with cost.
You are comparing different efficiencies. Solar panels are 15% to 20% efficient at converting light into energy. As far as I’m aware every Efuel being developed (and every hydrocarbon fuel for that matter) has a 0% efficiency at converting light into energy but if I am mistaken please do correct me.
I can charge my EV in the garage and not have to stand at a gas station in -30. Why on Earth would I want a less convenient hydrogen or other fuel car?
Because not everyone has a garage, and you still have to use the equivalent of gas stations if you’re travelling long distances.
In reality, BEVs pre-date ICE cars. They were abandoned because they were found to be less practical. The vast majority of people actually want gas stations and not the reverse.
We’re still in the early adoption stage. They were less practical because batteries were absolute trash 100 years ago. The vast majority of people want a car that will fill fast and go far. They don’t care how it happens.
We are also in the early adoption phase of other technologies. They will be far cheaper and more practical than what they are now. At some point, we have cars that are exactly as practical and cheap as conventional cars, only zero emissions. That is likely the end of the BEV.
Why do you think BEV is going away? Toyota is predicting they’ll have 1200km range and charge in 10 minutes by 2028. Even now the average city dweller can charge enough on a small service to make their trip to work and back. There is no upside to changing to something else.
They’re unsustainable, not to mention expensive and difficult for society to adopt. Toyota just say things while not actually being interested in them.
The marketing that they are “acceptable” for most people is not good enough. Eventually, there will be zero emissions cars that are just as practical as existing ICE cars and just as cheap. Basically no one will want BEVs once that happens.
They’re not unsustainable. Lithium is infinitely recyclable. Not to mention batteries are lasting way longer than expected. I’ve been in Tesla cabs with almost a million kilometers.
But it isn’t recycled, especially at the 100% level that would be required. And you still need to dig out vast amount amounts of virgin material in the first place. Meanwhile, e-fuels and hydrogen have no such problem to begin with. This is basically an excuse to ignore the real-world problems of batteries.
Batteries are unsustainable and have massive resource requirements. It’s basically an obsession with “efficiency” while actually being extremely wasteful.
You say that while promoting the idea of more inefficient energy transfer systems. Electric motors operate above 90%, traditional motors around 25-30%. Trying to mitigate that with wasting more energy by creating an artificial fuel is even more wasteful.
Burning stuff is unsustainable, using batteries, that are recyclable is not.
Solar panels are only 15-20% efficient. No one is going around saying we need to ban solar panels.
Fuels made from solar power are the opposite of unsustainable. They are the most sustainable ideas possible. It is basically artificial photosynthesis.
Because it is solar power ultimately powering it all. If you don’t care about the efficiency of that step, you don’t really care about all of the later steps. It is still green energy and still cheap.
The problem with BEVs is that while it is efficient in one respect, it is insanely wasteful in others. As a result, it is an unsustainable idea and functionally just greenwashing.
Now we’re in the “pro-BEV bullshit” zone. Batteries won’t magically solve all transportation needs, nor solve the energy storage requirements of the grid. Alternatives still have to exist anyways, and the total lifecycle efficiency of BEVs isn’t that special. In a lot of cases, avoiding excessive use of batteries will save you energy. So pursuing alternatives will not need radically more solar panels.
BEVs are a dead end. It’s an idea older than internal combustion and is already obsolete. The world needs to shift focus to concepts like e-fuels or hydrogen cars.
E-fuel? So like what? Electricity…
It’s fuel made using electricity as the energy source.
The problem with fuels made from electricity is that pesky thing called thermodynamics. If an efuel was developed that was more efficient than electricity then we’d be able to use it to produce more electricity than we put in.
You avoid the giant, expensive battery though. People are obsessed with efficiency in a self-defeating way.
People are obsessed with efficiency because it’s the only metric that matters. We have a finite amount of resources on this planet and efficiency is the only way we can make it last. If you aren’t a ‘save the planet’ type of person then efficiency still matters because it’s directly correlated with cost.
Better ban solar panels cause they’re only 15-20% efficient. /s
You are comparing different efficiencies. Solar panels are 15% to 20% efficient at converting light into energy. As far as I’m aware every Efuel being developed (and every hydrocarbon fuel for that matter) has a 0% efficiency at converting light into energy but if I am mistaken please do correct me.
E-fuels are made from solar power. It is not anywhere near 0%. Also, clearly efficiency is not “the only metric that matters.”
I can charge my EV in the garage and not have to stand at a gas station in -30. Why on Earth would I want a less convenient hydrogen or other fuel car?
Because not everyone has a garage, and you still have to use the equivalent of gas stations if you’re travelling long distances.
In reality, BEVs pre-date ICE cars. They were abandoned because they were found to be less practical. The vast majority of people actually want gas stations and not the reverse.
We’re still in the early adoption stage. They were less practical because batteries were absolute trash 100 years ago. The vast majority of people want a car that will fill fast and go far. They don’t care how it happens.
We are also in the early adoption phase of other technologies. They will be far cheaper and more practical than what they are now. At some point, we have cars that are exactly as practical and cheap as conventional cars, only zero emissions. That is likely the end of the BEV.
Why do you think BEV is going away? Toyota is predicting they’ll have 1200km range and charge in 10 minutes by 2028. Even now the average city dweller can charge enough on a small service to make their trip to work and back. There is no upside to changing to something else.
They’re unsustainable, not to mention expensive and difficult for society to adopt. Toyota just say things while not actually being interested in them.
The marketing that they are “acceptable” for most people is not good enough. Eventually, there will be zero emissions cars that are just as practical as existing ICE cars and just as cheap. Basically no one will want BEVs once that happens.
They’re not unsustainable. Lithium is infinitely recyclable. Not to mention batteries are lasting way longer than expected. I’ve been in Tesla cabs with almost a million kilometers.
But it isn’t recycled, especially at the 100% level that would be required. And you still need to dig out vast amount amounts of virgin material in the first place. Meanwhile, e-fuels and hydrogen have no such problem to begin with. This is basically an excuse to ignore the real-world problems of batteries.
If you don’t have a garage you don’t need a car
If only…
Yeah, quit using the efficient stuff, we need something similarly inefficient as gas powered cars.
Batteries are unsustainable and have massive resource requirements. It’s basically an obsession with “efficiency” while actually being extremely wasteful.
You say that while promoting the idea of more inefficient energy transfer systems. Electric motors operate above 90%, traditional motors around 25-30%. Trying to mitigate that with wasting more energy by creating an artificial fuel is even more wasteful.
Burning stuff is unsustainable, using batteries, that are recyclable is not.
Solar panels are only 15-20% efficient. No one is going around saying we need to ban solar panels.
Fuels made from solar power are the opposite of unsustainable. They are the most sustainable ideas possible. It is basically artificial photosynthesis.
We don’t make fuels from solar power.
Unless you mean hydrogen, which by itself is already 30-40% less efficient then just using the electricity directly in a battery.
And that is without counting all the hydrogen that just escapes through any form of containment we try to keep it in.
Hydrogen is a fuel. E-fuels are hydrogen plus CO₂ and converted into synthetic hydrocarbons.
You are blatantly ignoring the part where solar power is incredibly inefficient to begin with, and we don’t care. It’s still cheap energy.
Where is the comparison to the solar panel? I’m comparing methods of propelling, you are comparing solar panels and?
If you can use the energy more efficiently and choose not to it’s not sustainable (or at least not very smart)
Because it is solar power ultimately powering it all. If you don’t care about the efficiency of that step, you don’t really care about all of the later steps. It is still green energy and still cheap.
The problem with BEVs is that while it is efficient in one respect, it is insanely wasteful in others. As a result, it is an unsustainable idea and functionally just greenwashing.
So it’s the same if you have to build 5 times as many solar panels to do the same thing? It’s just not.
Now we’re in the “pro-BEV bullshit” zone. Batteries won’t magically solve all transportation needs, nor solve the energy storage requirements of the grid. Alternatives still have to exist anyways, and the total lifecycle efficiency of BEVs isn’t that special. In a lot of cases, avoiding excessive use of batteries will save you energy. So pursuing alternatives will not need radically more solar panels.