Ahead of the mutiny, steps were taken to boost security at the Kremlin, but Putin was uncertain how to respond to a warlord critical to many global operations.
It is silly to compare Voice of America (an excellent journalistic institution with a great reputation), to the Washington Post (overall pretty good), to Russia Times (literal state propaganda). These are all very different sources and painting them with the same brush is just factually incorrect.
For the love of god, listen to some Citations Needed and stop self-congratilating your media literacy because some fucking dork with a website tells you the New York Times and Washington Post aren’t biased.
I’d thought that even the most liberal people on nü-Lemmy had at least read some Chomsky (or even watched the documentaries based on his work), but I guess we aren’t even there yet.
I think it’s hilarious people are telling me I need some nuance and research, when I’m the one arguing there are differences between these sources and we need to evaluate them individually. And the person I responded to is arguing they’re all the same because, well, Journalism Bad I guess!
For the love of god read the comments before you reply.
And the person I responded to is arguing they’re all the same because, well, Journalism Bad I guess!
If you only consider corporate media and western state-run and state-sponsored outlets to be purveyors of “Journalism,” then let me emphatically say yes, Journalism Bad.
“Bad arguments” is a pretty rich take coming from you. You’ve done nothing but continually, in defiance of logic and facts, assert total nonsense… and then turn around and claim that I’m the one that has bad arguments.
Literally, at least I have something. All you’ve got is a mushy, unfactual “enlightened centricism” that says that actually all media and all fact checkers are liars. Which is an utterly moronic take, and as I have demonstrated all over this thread, totally unsupported by actual facts.
Voice of America was put under the command of the USIA (US Information Agency) whose job was literally propaganda.
The US archives state the following:
306.2 Records of the International Information Administration
(Department of State)
1945-53
History: Office of the Coordinator of Information established as an independent agency by Presidential order, July 11, 1941, to collect and analyze information bearing upon national security. Foreign Information Service established within OCOI to oversee shortwave propaganda broadcasts (Voice of America, VOA),
Interesting find! There were also 48 states when that was written though, so we should probably take its current-day accuracy with a grain of salt.
Indeed, the nature of VOA has changed over time. During the Cold War it served to bring accurate news to countries behind the Iron Curtain and fight Soviet propaganda. (The Soviet government jammed it during this time.) Obviously this mission has changed since then as well since the Soviet Union no longer exists.
Ultimately its current reputation of journalistic objectivity does not depend on nearly century-old records but on what we can see today; dedicated journalists and accurate reporting.
Ah yes the propaganda outlet started for the purposes of propaganda and staffed with people all doing the job of propaganda has surely not continued to employ people ideologically aligned with performing propaganda ever since! Nooooooo. Somewhere along the line must have fired every single member of staff and built a reputable new outlet from the top down. Surely!
To quote a reagan fuckhead - “Personnel is policy”.
Ultimately its current reputation of journalistic objectivity does not depend on nearly century-old records but on what we can see today; dedicated journalists and accurate reporting.
You are not immune to propaganda. And you should seriously take a moment to read the shit you are writing and ask yourself how much of it is you repeating propaganda. You sound like you’re literally writing PR copy.
I mean, France was once ruled by an Emperor; does that mean it still secretly is? Or did, like, something change in the last two hundred years in that regard? Do you think Napoleon is still secretly in charge there too?
You’re right personnel is policy though. And if you did any research whatsoever instead of posting nonsense on the Internet, you’d see that the journalists who work at the VOA are actually journalists, not propagandists. It’s not hard, the facts are out there. Maybe you should pursue them instead of indulge in baseless conspiracy theories.
But I’m easy to convince! Feel free to link me evidence that the VOA is still American propaganda and not real journalism. Surely reputable sources and good evidence are easy to find? I mean, if this was written a hundred years ago, there must be something else between then and now?
Of the two of us I am the only one that has done any research at all. As I am the only one who bothered to see what language the US uses for its own media outlet.
Your research consists of looking up propaganda sites that suit you, and parroting whatever they say regardless of any critical thought that might suggest they’re not reliable. You don’t think for yourself. At all. All you do is defer all of your thinking to these ““sources”” when they’re not primary sources and are literally obviously spouting easily falsifiable shit.
What research was that exactly? Watching a literal propaganda YouTube video and deciding it was the truth? You know that video was in English too, right? Doesn’t that mean it’s been compromised by the CIA?
Anyway… you clearly just have no idea what you’re talking about and have no ability to discern fact from fiction. For crowing that I need to stop being propagandized, I’m the only one here that appears to have done anything even actual research and employing critical thought.
It seems like there’s no reason to doubt the US Archive’s internal records on this regard. You say surely things have changed, but there’s little in the way of compelling evidence that that’s the case, right? Propaganda doesn’t mean an absence of factual reporting, it means slanted, biased reporting, and it’s not exactly a stretch by any means to suggest that VOICE OF AMERICA might have an agenda in their reporting, right? Pretty much every country that disseminates its own media employs propaganda because it’s a proven means of control. I understand you respect the service they provide but consider the purpose of propaganda, its intended effect, and how it might be influencing your stance on this matter.
There’s a ton of compelling evidence that VOA is not propaganda.
I linked a bunch of media bias and fact checkers earlier: in case you missed them, heretheyareagain. So… yeah, it seems from the available evidence it has in fact changed in a hundred years.
Unless, of course, you think that every media fact checker is wrong. In which case, again, it must be easy to provide some kind of source or evidence that either they are, or that VOA is in fact merely propaganda.
mediabiasfactcheck, the site that squashes two complex spectrums (left vs right, unbiased vs biased) into a one dimensional line, making no distinction between centrism and being unbiased.
Propaganda in the loosest definition just means reporting in a biased manner to push a political agenda. You can be 100% accurate with what you say and it still can be considered propaganda due to the manner in which it is presented.
While WP or VoA, in contrast to RT, don’t outright lie or deceptively create fake stories, they do have a pro-USA bias. That’s why it’s a hyperbolic statement. It was just meant to elaborate on the distrust for the article.
I apparently think about it more critically than you do. All journalism is not propaganda; some is good in fact, and we can determine which is good and which is bad. And I at least have sources, whereas you have, uh… brain damage I guess?
Also that’s a laughable and total misunderstanding of Voice of America’s history, mission, and goals. It has a reputation basically everywhere as being as close to objective and reliable reporting as you can get outside the BBC. I guess you’re just assuming it’s bad based on its name, which is not great on the critical thinking front!
A statutory corporation is a government entity created as a statutory body by statute.
It doesn’t matter what language you try to couch it in, “state funded”, “editorial independence”, whatever. It was founded by the state, is funded by the state, and is a government entity. If it quacks like a duck.
As a brit, it absolutely is state-run in every way except the technicallity of the employees not being government workers and having a semi-indepdent structure, it is undeniably linked to the british government by nature, history, and practicality.
It absolutely is not state-run; VOA and RT are and the BBC is not. Obviously it’s not totally cut and dry but to claim it’s state run is simply a misunderstanding of its history and charter. As I said earlier, words actually mean something.
Suggesting I have Brain Damage and then doubling down on your argument that VOA is as good as another state-owned media outlet that promotes its own nation with a history of imperialism, colonialism, and a bunch of other atrocities. I’m not sure if you think you’re convincing me or anyone beyond your echo chamber of anything or just like to read your own words as reaffirmation of your own beliefs. Either way it’s useless.
Why would the government support one of its own appendages acting for decades against its own interest in public reporting? Can you show me a single case of it seemingly acting against the interest of the government to which it belongs? Because all I see on the front page right now is speculation on what Russia “Could Be Preparing”, talking about how China’s “Dismal Foreign Minister Reflects Turmoil”, one about “Chinese Spy Ships” oh and the Chinese economy “Facing New Difficulties,” along with a Russia/DPRK story. idk, it seems to toe the line pretty strictly.
I can give it the most marginal credit in terms of headlines for a few articles down the page
I’m surprised they aren’t more defensive of DPP, but then reading the article I see that the angle is apparently attacking the KMT and taking the new third party, the TPP, as a viable alternative that is still generally following western interests and hilariously promises to promote a “color revolution” in Taiwan along with class third-positionist nonsense about “divisiveness” that liberals always seem to fall for. TPP seems most in line with the “de-risking” line favored by the Biden administration rather than the more extreme “delinking” or the left wing “actual diplomatic engagement”.
I’m surprised this isn’t framed in a more threatening manner, let’s see how it opens:
PHNOM PENH, CAMBODIA — Cambodian officials say renovation work on a naval base in the coastal city of Sihanoukville is nearly complete, but U.S. officials have voiced suspicions the facility, being upgraded by China, will be used exclusively by China’s military.
Suspicions about China’s intentions for the Ream naval base were raised after satellite imagery showed that a major pier capable of anchoring aircraft carriers had been constructed on the site.
There we are. The rest is slightly softer but continues a tone of fearmongering.
Can you show me a single case of it seemingly acting against the interest of the government to which it belongs?
You’re asking for a very tall order considering that, having listened to US news most morning for the past three years, I can’t recall of a single mainstream US or foreign news outlet that has done that. Not even DW does that from Berlin. I don’t think that’s how the mainstream news operates, tbh.
But if you ask, “do they report critical news on the US”?
Then the answer is yes. It’s largely criticizing Gov. Abbott’s move as unethical and dangerous, which is true. I even checked other largely unbiased news sites like NPR and their reporting is on par. (Don’t even try to pretend that NPR is another shill news outlet. Spare me the eye rolling.)
along with class third-positionist nonsense about “divisiveness” that liberals always seem to fall for
I honestly find your entire assessment more biased, nit-picky, and exaggerated than the article itself.
I’m surprised this isn’t framed in a more threatening manner,
It’s the second time you act surprised that they didn’t meet your expectations of an overt propaganda channel.
but continues a tone of fearmongering.
Does it, though? I’m not saying it can’t be subtle, but let’s browse Newsmax or any of the extremist, domestic news outlets for a second and draw a comparison for what it really could be, and then reassess if it really fits the shoe.
You’re asking for a very tall order considering that, having listened to US news most morning for the past three years, I can’t recall of a single mainstream US or foreign news outlet that has done that. Not even DW does that from Berlin. I don’t think that’s how the mainstream news operates, tbh.
That’s really the point of what people are arguing, that these are interested parties that clearly promote certain agendas pertaining to respective national interests. If you agree, then that’s most of the meaningful discussion concluded, imo.
But if you ask, “do they report critical news on the US”?
Then the answer is yes. It’s largely criticizing Gov. Abbott’s move as unethical and dangerous, which is true. I even checked other largely unbiased news sites like NPR and their reporting is on par. (Don’t even try to pretend that NPR is another shill news outlet. Spare me the eye rolling.)
I am unimpressed. You are making the very common mistake of “critical of any individual or group within the US” being the same as “critical of the US”. I can point you to a thousand stories of Orange Man Bad (a large portion of which are correct, albeit meaningless, for the record) from CNN or MSNBC, but that is because what they are doing is partisan reporting from within the frame of Republican vs Democrat politics. That the Dem-aligned outlets say the Republicans are bad and the reverse does not mean they are in any meaningful sense criticizing the US. In fact, this can easily result in whitewashing the US, as happened constantly under Trump, whether it was rehabilitating the war criminal Bush or indeed pretending VoA used to be impartial, a huge portion of these attacks rest on a framework that the object of criticism does not represent the agenda of the US and what its systems seek to preserve but is instead a rogue, an infection, or in some other manner foreign to or against those interests.
I honestly find your entire assessment more biased, nit-picky, and exaggerated than the article itself.
It’s media criticism, and what I had to say was mostly regarding the overall argumentative arc of the article rather than trying to hit on small details out of context. Is my assessment at all incorrect? Obviously I included a sardonic joke about diplomacy being communist, but besides that.
Also, I’m not a fucking journo! I’m not pretending to be reporting on international news for the pure sake of keeping my audience informed on political developments, I’m just some asshole commenting. I also, unlike that journo, have a significant hostile audience that I am writing in the context of. That guy doesn’t give a shit what China thinks of what he is writing. Your comparison is apples to oranges.
It’s the second time you act surprised that they didn’t meet your expectations of an overt propaganda channel.
Did you not see the five or so headlines that made up basically the entire front page? I talked about those first to establish a baseline (there was one neutral one and one on basketball that I left out).
Does it, though? I’m not saying it can’t be subtle, but let’s browse Newsmax or any of the extremist, domestic news outlets for a second and draw a comparison for what it really could be, and then reassess if it really fits the shoe.
This is an anemic argument and you show that you know it. No, it’s not stormfront, but that’s because it has an extremely different audience and a different set of liabilities than stormfront (and obviously a neoliberal ideology rather than a Nazi one). If you thought the argument you were saying was worth anything, then I can just say “What’s your issue with Fox? OANN is way further out there. What’s your issue with OANN? Breitbart is way further out there. What’s your problem with Breitbart? It’s a little edgy but nothing like the unhinged rants at InfoWars. InfoWars? Please, they look like liberals compared to stormfront.”
These are different factions with different audiences, different styles, and different ideologies. Being able to point to something more vulgar is no defense, especially because – as others have stressed in this thread – that creates a huge, multi-layered bias towards establishment media relaying a centrist, neoliberal message! The place that happens to be America’s political center has no particular reason to correspond with what an informed and “impartial” observer would conclude except by cosmic coincidence, because the American center (as with any country’s political center) is historically arbitrary and constantly changing! We can’t just tacitly assume that the establishment ideologies are what are most reasonable and the fairness of all other things must be measured against that. It’s part of this myopia that I explained at the top of this comment about how people are so stuck in partisan shitflinging and those sorts of issues that they have no idea of what “impartial” could even mean! And I say this as someone who thinks there is no such thing as “unbiased,” that there are stronger framings for what is theoretically a pillar of your ideology, which I oppose, than what you have put forward.
You cannot escape your own perspective, your own circumstances and interests, but you can do a better job than you currently are of stepping outside of the bubble of Mainstream American Political Discourse and investigating what people from other countries not aligned with the US say, or even a more serious investigation of what fringes within America say.
Oh, and out of pure spite, I will inform you that NPR is a zionist rag that does nearly whatever the Democrats want. It’s laughable to call it unbiased, even if we pretend such a thing is real. They are partisan hacks and apologists for the neoliberal project with a progressive veneer faintly glossed overtop.
Oh sorry, read the first paragraph on that page. You don’t need to read anything else. Usually when someone shares a link I read the first few sentences if there’s no further explanation.
Voice of America (VOA) is the largest U.S. international broadcaster, providing news and information in more than 40 languages to an estimated weekly audience of more than 326 million people. VOA produces content for digital, television, and radio platforms. It is easily accessed via your mobile phone and on social media. It is also distributed by satellite, cable, FM and MW, and is carried on a network of more than 3,500 affiliate stations.
That’s the first paragraph. What are you talking about?
lol you didn’t even bother clicking the link did you?
VOA is part of the U.S. Agency for Global Media (USAGM), the government agency that oversees all non-military, U.S. international broadcasting. It is funded by the U.S. Congress.
I mean, ditto for not bothering to exposit your point earlier
But then:
The United States Agency for Global Media (USAGM) … is an independent agency of the United States government that broadcasts news and information. It is considered an arm of U.S. diplomacy.
In the United States government, independent agencies are agencies that exist outside the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary) and the Executive Office of the President. In a narrower sense, the term refers only to those independent agencies that, while considered part of the executive branch, have regulatory or rulemaking authority and are insulated from presidential control, usually because the president’s power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited.
And while it’s true that Obama restructured the agency to operate under a single CEO appointed by him and Congress in 2008 rather than a bipartisan board, and was briefly caught serving some arguably innocuous political ads on Facebook to Americans violating the Smith-Mundt Act (brief pause to applaud the US for protecting its citizens), its reach and influence is largely limited to countries that have strict censorship laws.
I’ve yet to see something even remotely comparable to the egregious ethical violations that RT practices on the daily. Most of the times I’ve seen it mentioned online is by people using the big scary word propaganda to discredit whatever they publish. And when push comes to shove, all they have to show for it is “well, it’s government-funded” and act all surprised when their headlines are milder than they had imagined, or cry out that their content is sending subliminal messages to advance Western Ideals for Democracy because they didn’t like the wording. And to that I’d like to say, y’all have worse reporting coming from within the house from more than one outlet. This is a weird scapegoat to single out solely for its funding. Actually point out something it has done instead if we’re gonna keep ourselves honest here.
I don’t disagree with you about VOA not being 100% propaganda, but I think the thing that RT and VOA do share in common is that they are state-funded. With that being said, WaPo (just like the BBC) isn’t state funded so it’s still a poor comparison.
The BBC is quasi-state funded; its relationship with the government is not entirely cut-and-dry, since it is funded through a government act (though not directly by the UK itself).
What matters is whether the state has controls that prevent it from interfering with its media sources, and whether the those sources have missions respecting journalistic integrity. For the VOA and BBC this is entirely true, both have charters specifically mandating them to do that and their respective governments have very clear “hands-off” laws and policies (or did until Trump, the story does get a little complicated for the VOA recently).
RT on the other hand just publishes Putin’s marketing emails.
I added productive statements already; I’m still literally the only one in this thread that’s cited anything. Are you afraid of researching your stances and backing them up? Because there is a troll here, and it is not me.
Ok, fine. Let’s operate under this assumption. Find me an article from the VoA that is critical of the current President.
I can find articles from the BBC that are extremely critical of Rishi Sunak (and Boris Johnson when he was still in office). I can find articles from the CBC that are extremely critical of Justin Trudeau (and old Stephen Harper). Any truly unbiased non-propaganda media outlet could surely find something to criticize about the ruling President, right?
Again, this isn’t about reporting facts that, by your opinion, look bad for Biden, but about political analysis (that VoA does do) that is negative for Biden.
For example, articles like “Justin Trudeau drops into another pitfall of his own making” or “Why won’t Rishi Sunak give Partygate verdict on Boris Johnson?”, which has classic quotes like “‘Cowardly cop-out’” and “A scandal in plain sight”
An independent journalist agency has no problems making such claims. VoA does.
I think this is goalpost shifting frankly. I can find more articles on VoA that are critical of Biden. The fact that they don’t include sensationalized titles doesn’t mean they’re less critical.
I concede it’s a stretched argument but WaPo is known for hiring ex-State Department/ex-CIA staff onto its editorial board. I’m too lazy to find source but say something that gets me riled up and I’ll find the source out of spite.
I know it’s tough to believe, but government-funded things aren’t necessarily bad. To discover if they’re bad you have to do more research than seeing who funds them!
VOA earned credibility around the world on the basis of its honest journalism, even when its stories conflicted with US policy. “Some might argue that as a government-funded network, the voa should always be expected to portray US policies as righteous and successful,” wrote former VOA Director Sanford Ungar in Foreign Affairs in 2005. “But experience demonstrates that the VOA is most appreciated and effective when it functions as a model US-style news organization that presents a balanced view of domestic and international events, setting an example for how independent journalism can strengthen democracy.”
As anyone who’s ever lived, worked or served overseas will tell you, the Voice of America (VOA) is an invaluable and highly respected source of news and reliable information in a world too often flooded with misinformation and propaganda.
So certainly you have some sources for your claim that it’s US propaganda, right? It’s based on more than just the name and you continually asserting it?
“Basically” is a weasel word here. Give me a clearer standard before challenging me to falsify it. My point is merely that a general consensus between major outlets in America, Canada, Britain, Australia, South Korea, and Germany is not “basically everywhere” and in fact I suspect the general trend in media reception of “people whose interests its ideology align with like it, those misaligned dislike it” holds true here as well
Can you point out where I said it wasn’t? I’m just saying the severity of what happened in Russia is completely incomparable to what happened in the US. You’re talking about a fully armed military with sophisticated mechanized weapons and armor versus some Facebook rednecks with Trump flags.
I mean… The proud boys aren’t far off of from being Trump’s private army. And he did give them the marching orders to head into the capital building. Sure they don’t have tanks but I think the comparison still holds. In fact, I would argue they were closer to success than Wagner was.
While he didnt have a private army, he had hordes of angry armed people that he pointed toward the capital. He knew he lost the election and was trying to steal it with fake electors and the storming of the capital. While it’s not the same situation, he definitely DID try to overthrow the government and he IS still walking free.
Was that the point of my comparison, or was it simply to illustrate that politics is weird and the hand of justice slow?
There are many explanations for why Prigozhin is still free that aren’t “the entire thing was fiction.” The OP contains one, in fact, which is that Putin is hedged in by his own system of cronyism.
It is silly to compare Voice of America (an excellent journalistic institution with a great reputation), to the Washington Post (overall pretty good), to Russia Times (literal state propaganda). These are all very different sources and painting them with the same brush is just factually incorrect.
Here’s some research for you:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-post/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/rt-news/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/voice-of-america/
As for your second point, Trump is still walking free and he tried to overthrow the government. These things apparently do happen.
For the love of god, listen to some Citations Needed and stop self-congratilating your media literacy because some fucking dork with a website tells you the New York Times and Washington Post aren’t biased.
I’d thought that even the most liberal people on nü-Lemmy had at least read some Chomsky (or even watched the documentaries based on his work), but I guess we aren’t even there yet.
I think it’s hilarious people are telling me I need some nuance and research, when I’m the one arguing there are differences between these sources and we need to evaluate them individually. And the person I responded to is arguing they’re all the same because, well, Journalism Bad I guess!
For the love of god read the comments before you reply.
If you only consider corporate media and western state-run and state-sponsored outlets to be purveyors of “Journalism,” then let me emphatically say yes, Journalism Bad.
I definitely didn’t say that.
And yet the examples discussed follow those bounds
I think you’re just doubling down on your bad arguments with straw man fallacies now. Move on.
“Bad arguments” is a pretty rich take coming from you. You’ve done nothing but continually, in defiance of logic and facts, assert total nonsense… and then turn around and claim that I’m the one that has bad arguments.
Literally, at least I have something. All you’ve got is a mushy, unfactual “enlightened centricism” that says that actually all media and all fact checkers are liars. Which is an utterly moronic take, and as I have demonstrated all over this thread, totally unsupported by actual facts.
“In defense of logic and facts” FTFY.
Voice of America was put under the command of the USIA (US Information Agency) whose job was literally propaganda.
The US archives state the following:
https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/306.html
I think that definitively proves you wrong.
Will this make you do one ounce of self-criticism or re-evaluate how you view the world? I sincerely doubt it.
Interesting find! There were also 48 states when that was written though, so we should probably take its current-day accuracy with a grain of salt.
Indeed, the nature of VOA has changed over time. During the Cold War it served to bring accurate news to countries behind the Iron Curtain and fight Soviet propaganda. (The Soviet government jammed it during this time.) Obviously this mission has changed since then as well since the Soviet Union no longer exists.
Ultimately its current reputation of journalistic objectivity does not depend on nearly century-old records but on what we can see today; dedicated journalists and accurate reporting.
Ah yes the propaganda outlet started for the purposes of propaganda and staffed with people all doing the job of propaganda has surely not continued to employ people ideologically aligned with performing propaganda ever since! Nooooooo. Somewhere along the line must have fired every single member of staff and built a reputable new outlet from the top down. Surely!
To quote a reagan fuckhead - “Personnel is policy”.
You are not immune to propaganda. And you should seriously take a moment to read the shit you are writing and ask yourself how much of it is you repeating propaganda. You sound like you’re literally writing PR copy.
I mean, France was once ruled by an Emperor; does that mean it still secretly is? Or did, like, something change in the last two hundred years in that regard? Do you think Napoleon is still secretly in charge there too?
You’re right personnel is policy though. And if you did any research whatsoever instead of posting nonsense on the Internet, you’d see that the journalists who work at the VOA are actually journalists, not propagandists. It’s not hard, the facts are out there. Maybe you should pursue them instead of indulge in baseless conspiracy theories.
But I’m easy to convince! Feel free to link me evidence that the VOA is still American propaganda and not real journalism. Surely reputable sources and good evidence are easy to find? I mean, if this was written a hundred years ago, there must be something else between then and now?
Of the two of us I am the only one that has done any research at all. As I am the only one who bothered to see what language the US uses for its own media outlet.
Your research consists of looking up propaganda sites that suit you, and parroting whatever they say regardless of any critical thought that might suggest they’re not reliable. You don’t think for yourself. At all. All you do is defer all of your thinking to these ““sources”” when they’re not primary sources and are literally obviously spouting easily falsifiable shit.
What research was that exactly? Watching a literal propaganda YouTube video and deciding it was the truth? You know that video was in English too, right? Doesn’t that mean it’s been compromised by the CIA?
Anyway… you clearly just have no idea what you’re talking about and have no ability to discern fact from fiction. For crowing that I need to stop being propagandized, I’m the only one here that appears to have done anything even actual research and employing critical thought.
Stop getting your information from YouTube. Duh.
Stop getting your information from the CIA. Duh.
It seems like there’s no reason to doubt the US Archive’s internal records on this regard. You say surely things have changed, but there’s little in the way of compelling evidence that that’s the case, right? Propaganda doesn’t mean an absence of factual reporting, it means slanted, biased reporting, and it’s not exactly a stretch by any means to suggest that VOICE OF AMERICA might have an agenda in their reporting, right? Pretty much every country that disseminates its own media employs propaganda because it’s a proven means of control. I understand you respect the service they provide but consider the purpose of propaganda, its intended effect, and how it might be influencing your stance on this matter.
There’s a ton of compelling evidence that VOA is not propaganda.
I linked a bunch of media bias and fact checkers earlier: in case you missed them, here they are again. So… yeah, it seems from the available evidence it has in fact changed in a hundred years.
Unless, of course, you think that every media fact checker is wrong. In which case, again, it must be easy to provide some kind of source or evidence that either they are, or that VOA is in fact merely propaganda.
mediabiasfactcheck, the site that squashes two complex spectrums (left vs right, unbiased vs biased) into a one dimensional line, making no distinction between centrism and being unbiased.
Yet certainly this has more nuance than that idiot who sees literally no difference between VOA, WaPo, BBC, and RT?
Look up the concept of hyperbolic statements in conversation.
All they were saying was that they don’t trust the Washington Post for foreign news. They weren’t literally putting WP in line with RT.
Correct.
They are literally putting WP in line with RT. This statement is still wrong in exactly the way I’ve described numerous times here.
That quote is meant to be taken figuratively.
Propaganda in the loosest definition just means reporting in a biased manner to push a political agenda. You can be 100% accurate with what you say and it still can be considered propaganda due to the manner in which it is presented.
While WP or VoA, in contrast to RT, don’t outright lie or deceptively create fake stories, they do have a pro-USA bias. That’s why it’s a hyperbolic statement. It was just meant to elaborate on the distrust for the article.
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so we’re just going straight-up conspiracy theory here now? ok.
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So no sources or evidence for your conspiracy theory, eh?
I honestly pity you. Why not crawl back to lemmygrad where you belong?
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It’s sad the only thing you have is insults. What would be even more impressive is facts. Oh well.
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You don’t think critically about mediabiasfactcheck?
Voice of America was created to promote American propaganda, it’s literally the US propaganda outlet. You’re a shill.
I apparently think about it more critically than you do. All journalism is not propaganda; some is good in fact, and we can determine which is good and which is bad. And I at least have sources, whereas you have, uh… brain damage I guess?
Also that’s a laughable and total misunderstanding of Voice of America’s history, mission, and goals. It has a reputation basically everywhere as being as close to objective and reliable reporting as you can get outside the BBC. I guess you’re just assuming it’s bad based on its name, which is not great on the critical thinking front!
“Russian state owned media bad. British state owned media good.”
No, we know it’s bad because it’s literally run by the US government.
The BBC isn’t state-owned. I know facts and nuance are tough but I do mention this in another comment. Go read it, you might learn something!
It doesn’t matter what language you try to couch it in, “state funded”, “editorial independence”, whatever. It was founded by the state, is funded by the state, and is a government entity. If it quacks like a duck.
Couch it? What? You’re just wrong, it’s not state-run. Like words matter.
As a brit, it absolutely is state-run in every way except the technicallity of the employees not being government workers and having a semi-indepdent structure, it is undeniably linked to the british government by nature, history, and practicality.
It absolutely is not state-run; VOA and RT are and the BBC is not. Obviously it’s not totally cut and dry but to claim it’s state run is simply a misunderstanding of its history and charter. As I said earlier, words actually mean something.
Suggesting I have Brain Damage and then doubling down on your argument that VOA is as good as another state-owned media outlet that promotes its own nation with a history of imperialism, colonialism, and a bunch of other atrocities. I’m not sure if you think you’re convincing me or anyone beyond your echo chamber of anything or just like to read your own words as reaffirmation of your own beliefs. Either way it’s useless.
Cite reliable sources proving it’s “another state-owned media outlet that promotes its own nation” or at least give us a demostrable example.
Why would the government support one of its own appendages acting for decades against its own interest in public reporting? Can you show me a single case of it seemingly acting against the interest of the government to which it belongs? Because all I see on the front page right now is speculation on what Russia “Could Be Preparing”, talking about how China’s “Dismal Foreign Minister Reflects Turmoil”, one about “Chinese Spy Ships” oh and the Chinese economy “Facing New Difficulties,” along with a Russia/DPRK story. idk, it seems to toe the line pretty strictly.
I can give it the most marginal credit in terms of headlines for a few articles down the page
"As Taiwan Election Heats Up Young Voters Flock to Third-Party Candidate "
I’m surprised they aren’t more defensive of DPP, but then reading the article I see that the angle is apparently attacking the KMT and taking the new third party, the TPP, as a viable alternative that is still generally following western interests and hilariously promises to promote a “color revolution” in Taiwan along with class third-positionist nonsense about “divisiveness” that liberals always seem to fall for. TPP seems most in line with the “de-risking” line favored by the Biden administration rather than the more extreme “delinking” or the left wing “actual diplomatic engagement”.
"Cambodian Ream Naval Base Modernized by China Nears Completion: Defense Ministry "
I’m surprised this isn’t framed in a more threatening manner, let’s see how it opens:
There we are. The rest is slightly softer but continues a tone of fearmongering.
You’re asking for a very tall order considering that, having listened to US news most morning for the past three years, I can’t recall of a single mainstream US or foreign news outlet that has done that. Not even DW does that from Berlin. I don’t think that’s how the mainstream news operates, tbh.
But if you ask, “do they report critical news on the US”?
Then the answer is yes. It’s largely criticizing Gov. Abbott’s move as unethical and dangerous, which is true. I even checked other largely unbiased news sites like NPR and their reporting is on par. (Don’t even try to pretend that NPR is another shill news outlet. Spare me the eye rolling.)
I honestly find your entire assessment more biased, nit-picky, and exaggerated than the article itself.
It’s the second time you act surprised that they didn’t meet your expectations of an overt propaganda channel.
Does it, though? I’m not saying it can’t be subtle, but let’s browse Newsmax or any of the extremist, domestic news outlets for a second and draw a comparison for what it really could be, and then reassess if it really fits the shoe.
That’s really the point of what people are arguing, that these are interested parties that clearly promote certain agendas pertaining to respective national interests. If you agree, then that’s most of the meaningful discussion concluded, imo.
I am unimpressed. You are making the very common mistake of “critical of any individual or group within the US” being the same as “critical of the US”. I can point you to a thousand stories of Orange Man Bad (a large portion of which are correct, albeit meaningless, for the record) from CNN or MSNBC, but that is because what they are doing is partisan reporting from within the frame of Republican vs Democrat politics. That the Dem-aligned outlets say the Republicans are bad and the reverse does not mean they are in any meaningful sense criticizing the US. In fact, this can easily result in whitewashing the US, as happened constantly under Trump, whether it was rehabilitating the war criminal Bush or indeed pretending VoA used to be impartial, a huge portion of these attacks rest on a framework that the object of criticism does not represent the agenda of the US and what its systems seek to preserve but is instead a rogue, an infection, or in some other manner foreign to or against those interests.
It’s media criticism, and what I had to say was mostly regarding the overall argumentative arc of the article rather than trying to hit on small details out of context. Is my assessment at all incorrect? Obviously I included a sardonic joke about diplomacy being communist, but besides that.
Also, I’m not a fucking journo! I’m not pretending to be reporting on international news for the pure sake of keeping my audience informed on political developments, I’m just some asshole commenting. I also, unlike that journo, have a significant hostile audience that I am writing in the context of. That guy doesn’t give a shit what China thinks of what he is writing. Your comparison is apples to oranges.
Did you not see the five or so headlines that made up basically the entire front page? I talked about those first to establish a baseline (there was one neutral one and one on basketball that I left out).
This is an anemic argument and you show that you know it. No, it’s not stormfront, but that’s because it has an extremely different audience and a different set of liabilities than stormfront (and obviously a neoliberal ideology rather than a Nazi one). If you thought the argument you were saying was worth anything, then I can just say “What’s your issue with Fox? OANN is way further out there. What’s your issue with OANN? Breitbart is way further out there. What’s your problem with Breitbart? It’s a little edgy but nothing like the unhinged rants at InfoWars. InfoWars? Please, they look like liberals compared to stormfront.”
These are different factions with different audiences, different styles, and different ideologies. Being able to point to something more vulgar is no defense, especially because – as others have stressed in this thread – that creates a huge, multi-layered bias towards establishment media relaying a centrist, neoliberal message! The place that happens to be America’s political center has no particular reason to correspond with what an informed and “impartial” observer would conclude except by cosmic coincidence, because the American center (as with any country’s political center) is historically arbitrary and constantly changing! We can’t just tacitly assume that the establishment ideologies are what are most reasonable and the fairness of all other things must be measured against that. It’s part of this myopia that I explained at the top of this comment about how people are so stuck in partisan shitflinging and those sorts of issues that they have no idea of what “impartial” could even mean! And I say this as someone who thinks there is no such thing as “unbiased,” that there are stronger framings for what is theoretically a pillar of your ideology, which I oppose, than what you have put forward.
You cannot escape your own perspective, your own circumstances and interests, but you can do a better job than you currently are of stepping outside of the bubble of Mainstream American Political Discourse and investigating what people from other countries not aligned with the US say, or even a more serious investigation of what fringes within America say.
Oh, and out of pure spite, I will inform you that NPR is a zionist rag that does nearly whatever the Democrats want. It’s laughable to call it unbiased, even if we pretend such a thing is real. They are partisan hacks and apologists for the neoliberal project with a progressive veneer faintly glossed overtop.
https://www.insidevoa.com/p/5831.HTML
🤡
What about it? You can’t just link to a page with a thousand words on it and pretend that it all proves your point. Elaborate.
Oh sorry, read the first paragraph on that page. You don’t need to read anything else. Usually when someone shares a link I read the first few sentences if there’s no further explanation.
Voice of America (VOA) is the largest U.S. international broadcaster, providing news and information in more than 40 languages to an estimated weekly audience of more than 326 million people. VOA produces content for digital, television, and radio platforms. It is easily accessed via your mobile phone and on social media. It is also distributed by satellite, cable, FM and MW, and is carried on a network of more than 3,500 affiliate stations.
That’s the first paragraph. What are you talking about?
Most literate tankie
lol you didn’t even bother clicking the link did you?
I mean, ditto for not bothering to exposit your point earlier
But then:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Agency_for_Global_Media
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government
And while it’s true that Obama restructured the agency to operate under a single CEO appointed by him and Congress in 2008 rather than a bipartisan board, and was briefly caught serving some arguably innocuous political ads on Facebook to Americans violating the Smith-Mundt Act (brief pause to applaud the US for protecting its citizens), its reach and influence is largely limited to countries that have strict censorship laws.
I’ve yet to see something even remotely comparable to the egregious ethical violations that RT practices on the daily. Most of the times I’ve seen it mentioned online is by people using the big scary word propaganda to discredit whatever they publish. And when push comes to shove, all they have to show for it is “well, it’s government-funded” and act all surprised when their headlines are milder than they had imagined, or cry out that their content is sending subliminal messages to advance Western Ideals for Democracy because they didn’t like the wording. And to that I’d like to say, y’all have worse reporting coming from within the house from more than one outlet. This is a weird scapegoat to single out solely for its funding. Actually point out something it has done instead if we’re gonna keep ourselves honest here.
I don’t disagree with you about VOA not being 100% propaganda, but I think the thing that RT and VOA do share in common is that they are state-funded. With that being said, WaPo (just like the BBC) isn’t state funded so it’s still a poor comparison.
The BBC is quasi-state funded; its relationship with the government is not entirely cut-and-dry, since it is funded through a government act (though not directly by the UK itself).
What matters is whether the state has controls that prevent it from interfering with its media sources, and whether the those sources have missions respecting journalistic integrity. For the VOA and BBC this is entirely true, both have charters specifically mandating them to do that and their respective governments have very clear “hands-off” laws and policies (or did until Trump, the story does get a little complicated for the VOA recently).
RT on the other hand just publishes Putin’s marketing emails.
WaPo just publishes Bezos’s marketing emails.
Is your goal to be wrong in as many places in this thread as possible? Cuz you are killing it if so.
Just trolling now with nothing productive to add.
I added productive statements already; I’m still literally the only one in this thread that’s cited anything. Are you afraid of researching your stances and backing them up? Because there is a troll here, and it is not me.
Ok, fine. Let’s operate under this assumption. Find me an article from the VoA that is critical of the current President.
I can find articles from the BBC that are extremely critical of Rishi Sunak (and Boris Johnson when he was still in office). I can find articles from the CBC that are extremely critical of Justin Trudeau (and old Stephen Harper). Any truly unbiased non-propaganda media outlet could surely find something to criticize about the ruling President, right?
Didn’t you ask this in another thread? Just in case you’re a different person, here’s another article from the VoA that certainly doesn’t look good for Biden.
Again, this isn’t about reporting facts that, by your opinion, look bad for Biden, but about political analysis (that VoA does do) that is negative for Biden.
For example, articles like “Justin Trudeau drops into another pitfall of his own making” or “Why won’t Rishi Sunak give Partygate verdict on Boris Johnson?”, which has classic quotes like “‘Cowardly cop-out’” and “A scandal in plain sight”
An independent journalist agency has no problems making such claims. VoA does.
(Also, that article is by AP lol)
I think this is goalpost shifting frankly. I can find more articles on VoA that are critical of Biden. The fact that they don’t include sensationalized titles doesn’t mean they’re less critical.
I concede it’s a stretched argument but WaPo is known for hiring ex-State Department/ex-CIA staff onto its editorial board. I’m too lazy to find source but say something that gets me riled up and I’ll find the source out of spite.
lol, even that site directly states VoA is funded by the US government.
I know it’s tough to believe, but government-funded things aren’t necessarily bad. To discover if they’re bad you have to do more research than seeing who funds them!
It’s shocking I know.
Have you done any research on VoA?
Yes; have you? If you have you’d know they have a reputation basically everywhere for journalistic integrity, high objectivity, and high factuality.
You’re making this up. It’s known around the world for being US propaganda. Next you’ll be saying Stars and Stripes is highly objective.
I’m literally the only one who hasn’t made shit up this thread because I’ve linked sources. Want some more?
Columbia Journalism Review writes in a rather incisive examination of its position as state-run media:
From the Dallas News:
Here’s some other bias checking websites.
So certainly you have some sources for your claim that it’s US propaganda, right? It’s based on more than just the name and you continually asserting it?
Please cite more US sources about the US propaganda outlet.
Always the Same Map
Ah, good point; certainly you have evidence to show that what I said isn’t true?
“Basically” is a weasel word here. Give me a clearer standard before challenging me to falsify it. My point is merely that a general consensus between major outlets in America, Canada, Britain, Australia, South Korea, and Germany is not “basically everywhere” and in fact I suspect the general trend in media reception of “people whose interests its ideology align with like it, those misaligned dislike it” holds true here as well
https://web.archive.org/web/20220520112752/https://www.cjr.org/opinion/broadcasting_board_of_governors_house_trump.php
😂😅
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His supporters forced their way into the Capitol Building in order to keep him in office by throwing out the election results.
If that ain’t an attempted coup, then what is?
Can you point out where I said it wasn’t? I’m just saying the severity of what happened in Russia is completely incomparable to what happened in the US. You’re talking about a fully armed military with sophisticated mechanized weapons and armor versus some Facebook rednecks with Trump flags.
I mean… The proud boys aren’t far off of from being Trump’s private army. And he did give them the marching orders to head into the capital building. Sure they don’t have tanks but I think the comparison still holds. In fact, I would argue they were closer to success than Wagner was.
While he didnt have a private army, he had hordes of angry armed people that he pointed toward the capital. He knew he lost the election and was trying to steal it with fake electors and the storming of the capital. While it’s not the same situation, he definitely DID try to overthrow the government and he IS still walking free.
Was that the point of my comparison, or was it simply to illustrate that politics is weird and the hand of justice slow?
There are many explanations for why Prigozhin is still free that aren’t “the entire thing was fiction.” The OP contains one, in fact, which is that Putin is hedged in by his own system of cronyism.