• Scrambled Eggs @lazysoci.al
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    2 天前

    I honestly didn’t expect her to survive this one. She made it publicly known what she was doing so Israel couldn’t say it was a normal bombing of transport ships. But I figured they would use her as an example and destroy the ship.

    • nlgranger@lemmy.world
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      2 天前

      One person on board with her is a European Union member of parliament from France. That provides a lot more protection than Greta’s reputation can.

      • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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        2 天前

        Israel shot at a group of European diplomats two weeks ago and Europe did not care.

        Greta has way more clout than the European Parliament.

        • nlgranger@lemmy.world
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          2 天前

          I listen to the news almost every day and missed that. I guess it shows how bad things are that it didn’t make the news…

  • FlyingCircus@lemmy.world
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    2 天前

    What an anemic headline. How did she become detained? By an act of piracy and kidnapping in international waters. CNN is a tool of the oligarchs.

      • jacksilver@lemmy.world
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        2 天前

        It’s actually gotten worse. The management of CNN changed recentlyish and has been pushing CNN more to the right. I think it was to increase viewership, but ultimately just means the quality (not that it was very high to begin with) has dropped.

        • phx@lemmy.ca
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          2 天前

          Watching their recent coverage of LA and NY I was kinda astounded by the slant on it.

    • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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      2 天前

      Intercepting a ship that intends to run a blockade in international waters is legal according to international law. The flotilla had stated its intention repeatedly and were warned several times before being intercepted and finally boarded.

      • CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world
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        2 天前

        That assumes the blockade is legal though? Has an international court that is recognized by the ship’s flag country declared the legality of the blockade?

        • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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          2 天前

          I don’t know of a court ruling. The UN‘s Palmer Report declared it Legal.

          However as with lots of things regarding international law, there are different opinions.

    • untakenusername@sh.itjust.works
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      2 天前

      By an act of piracy and kidnapping in international waters.

      you might disagree with what’s happening but this was legal. Israel has a blockade there

      • Snowclone@lemmy.world
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        2 天前

        It’s a really good example of how abuse and evil can often be legal while doing what’s right can often be illegal.

  • Jaysyn@lemmy.world
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    3 天前

    EDIT: Kidnapping. The word you’re ignoring in the title is kidnapping.

        • Maeve@kbin.earth
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          3 天前

          I feel like indie news is more important than ever, even if it means hand-cranked mimeos and passing them from person to person. Telecom can be cut at any time.

    • Cocopanda@lemmy.world
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      3 天前

      When the UN doesn’t stop the Israeli’s from declaring it a conflict zone. It’s technically not kidnapping. Just like how the US abducted people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

      • Madison420@lemmy.world
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        3 天前

        No. They never entered anywhere Israel is legally allowed to exclude even in war It being full of aid and verifiable non combatants.

        It’s kidnapping.

        Just like how the US abducted people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

        Your example is also kidnapping but even excluding that bit of nuance the key word is “in” they never entered territorial waters and thus were never “in” Israel or Palestine. Israel can declare 1500mi of the coast of Somalia an exclusion zone then kidnap people there and that would make just as much sense in a legal view.

          • Madison420@lemmy.world
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            3 天前

            Something like that but the important thing is Israel is not claiming they entered the exclusion zone and similarly they even if they did the result is supposed to be being forcibly turned away not kidnapping and property theft.

            • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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              2 天前

              The flotilla was told several times to turn around or be detained. They decided to not turn around and continued on their intended course to breach the naval blockade.

              According to international maritime law Israel can intercept and detain before they enter.

              • Madison420@lemmy.world
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                2 天前

                Notice you never said they did breach the blockade which btw by international law they have to be given time and allowed to leave even if they enter without permission which they didn’t do nor is Israel claiming they did.

                Intercept and detain yes, board, seizur, deport and treat as their own… No because duh.

                • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 天前

                  Just like police can arrest you before you commit a crime, if you loudly and repeatedly proclaim the intention to commit it.

                  They were asked repeatedly to change course and refused.

                  Boarding, capturing the ship, confiscating cargo, and holding crew is exactly what international maritime law says is legal and customary in such situations like a blockade.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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          3 天前

          Gaza is under a declared blockade, Maritime Law (the oldest of international law) allows detaining any ship bound for a blockaded port. It’s really cut and dry, they very publicly declared they were bound for a blockaded port. It’s not like Israel boarded a ship that just happened to be in the area, these freedom flotilla yahoos very publicly declared they were bound for Gaza, which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.

          International law is an agreement between nations and doesn’t actually restrict nations from doing things that will hurt your feelings. You’re going down the sovcit path when you pretend international law is whatever you want it to be.

          • Madison420@lemmy.world
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            3 天前

            It’s not like Israel boarded a ship that just happened to be in the area,

            That’s exactly what happened, blockade borders have to be announced and ships have to be allowed time to leave the area. Israel left their blockade and kidnapped people aboard a ship they did not allow to leave an area they weren’t in.

            these freedom flotilla yahoos very publicly declared they were bound for Gaza, which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.

            Once they breach the blockade yes arguably though with only aid that gets more complex. Essentially aid entry is allowed so long as you agree to security arrangements that are both reasonable and lawful. That could mean Israel could board and search, or doesn’t mean they can blockade all aid to starve a population which is specifically and in multiple very very illegal.

            https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/blockade

            Their sources section is awash with good relevant information and specifically findings on the last Israeli famous Israeli blockade and subsequent boarding (and death of iirc 9) which was found to be a legal blockade so long as the purpose was not starvation and aid could enter with security arrangements.

            • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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              3 天前

              An operation involving naval and air forces by which a belligerent completely prevents movement by sea from or to a port or coast belonging to or occupied by an enemy belligerent. To be mandatory, that is, for third States to be obliged to respect it, the blockade must be effective. This means that it must be maintained by a force sufficient to prevent all access to the enemy coast.

              So… according to the link you’ve provided Israel is actually required to board the ship or they can no longer prevent shipments of weapons coming from Iran?

              Essentially aid entry is allowed so long as you agree to security arrangements that are both reasonable and lawful.

              Has there been any indication these flotilla activists attempted to make such security arrangements with Israel?

              • Madison420@lemmy.world
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                3 天前

                Correct to an extent, the accepted meaning is that they must agree to security measures to pass through. It is not and never has been a way to willfully prevent aid and aide staff into combat zones.

                They weren’t in a blockaded zone as far as I’m aware, Israel only says they were approaching and providing intented destination as you must when attempting to pass through a blockade.

                Even ignoring that they must be allowed to leave even if they enter the blockaded area without permission, it isn’t a seize your property and imprison your crew for being in the general area openly providing intent kinda thing.

                • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 天前

                  Israel has told the flotilla repeatedly they can deliver the aid through the proper channels and the port of Ashdod.

                  The small amount of captured aid from the freedom flotilla is being delivered to Gaza by Israel at the moment.

              • nomreokuntz@lemmy.cafe
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                3 天前

                So… according to the link you’ve provided Israel is actually required to board the ship or they can no longer prevent shipments of weapons coming from Iran?

                Ah yeah it would be so bad if people who got starved and firebomb for 2 years could defend themself \s

                Piece of shit

          • Madison420@lemmy.world
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            2 天前

            they very publicly declared they were bound for a blockaded port.

            Not illegal.

            which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.

            Not detain and seize, maritime law is very specific in that a blockade cannot block aid unreasonably. A super famous ship you’ve searched that’s filled solely with celebrities and aid is something you shouldn’t turn away so long as they accept security arrangements like boarding and searching. This isn’t star wars nor are they the trade union and total blockades like your implying are very illegal as defined by the law you’re sourcing.

            • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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              12 小时前

              Israel offers the option to deliver aid through its ports (Ashdod) and then land route. Exactly the place where the flotilla was brought to and their aid then continued on land by truck to Gaza.

              • Madison420@lemmy.world
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                10 小时前

                Israel extends an empty gesture they have no intention of actually doing hence all the aid not coming in. Similarly even in a blockade aid is specifically allowed or the blockade is illegal, seizing an aid ship and deporting is crew is strong evidence it’s an illegal blockade which is why they allowed all this to happen. It’s gotta get to court somehow and doing this to white celebrities is bound to get more traction then some other group attempting the same.

                • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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                  4 小时前

                  The amount of aid getting into Gaza is constantly increasing and at more than 50 trucks per day. The whole supposed aid flotilla didn’t even bring a full truck of aid. It’s a political stunt, not about actually delivering aid effectively.

          • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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            3 天前

            Maritime Law (the oldest of international law)

            Source?

            freedom flotilla yahoos […] doing things that will hurt your feelings. […] sovcit […] pretend

            Ew.

            • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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              2 天前

              https://openyls.law.yale.edu/bitstream/handle/20.500.13051/8684/43_101YaleLJ893_1991_1992_.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

              Page 898

              Outside the blockade area and on the high seas,34 belligerents relied on the practice of "visit and search"3s to stop vessels suspected of carrying “con-traband” to the enemy.36 A belligerent warship sailing on the high seas had the right to visit and search all merchant vessels. Merchants found carrying enemy contraband were captured and escorted to the belligerent’s nearest home port. The belligerent nation’s prize court then determined the fate of the captured ship and cargo.37 In cases where merchants resisted either capture or visit and search, the blockading force was entitled to pursue and, if neces-sary, damage or destroy the vessel to force the ship to submit.

              Page 901

              belligerents today continue to enforce blockades from long distance or through blockade zones. They do so because of three twentieth-century developments in maritime warfare: first, the growing importance to belligerents of conducting economic warfare in conjunction with armed con-flict;s3 second, the introduction of a large array of new weapons to the maritime battlefield; and third, the proliferation of modern weapons to less powerful nations incapable of conducting traditional blockade. In combination, these three developments have forced states to replace traditional blockade form with long-distance blockade or blockade zones.

    • vga@sopuli.xyz
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      3 天前

      Captured or arrested is the word you’re actually looking for. Or, as it currently stands, released.

      • Tamo240@programming.dev
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        3 天前

        What would you call intercepting someone in international waters and taking them back to your country without their consent? If Somali pirates did that you’d have no qualms using the word ‘kidnapped’.

        • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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          3 天前

          It’s a blockade for a war zone. Standard practice for centuries, unless they just shoot you which was the previous option for most of humanity.

          Now let’s get pedantic and have someone screech that Israel doesn’t recognize Palestine and it’s not a war so no blockade 🙄

          • rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
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            2 天前

            The blockade is illegal and israel didn’t do it job to allow enough food and aid to enter which is an obligation. They are even shooting people seeking aid

          • Tamo240@programming.dev
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            2 天前

            Israel does not recognise that there are civilian non-combatants in Gaza and therefore does not allow aid to enter. How about you?

    • RaptorBenn@lemmy.world
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      3 天前

      Yeah it’s real typical for kidnappings to be publicly known, announced in advance and then the victim safetly returned promptly, entirely unharmed. Im sure you can fram it as a kidnapping with some backflips, but you just look like a whiny child. She was captured and held unlawfully sure, but if it was actually for humanitarian aid and not self publicity, i might have some sympathy.

      • theolodis@feddit.org
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        3 天前

        So if somali pirates would just take the ship and send the crew back home it would all be good?

        You’re having an interesting opinion here.

      • Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works
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        3 天前

        Can’t really agree with you on this one. I would welcome and fight for more people doing the right thing for personal benefit. Seems a lot better than the current circumstances.

        • RaptorBenn@lemmy.world
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          3 天前

          Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, in my experience, backfires more often than not. It’s a dangerous gamble.

          • Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works
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            3 天前

            Yes. The only tatoo idea I have for myself involves dice, chains, and the words “Let’s tempt Fate.” While I would prefer an ideal situation, it’s taking too long. I will support any act that brings aid, supplies, or more notoriety to the plight of Gaza. Even Al-Capone had a soup kitchen for the hungry Chicagans of the Great Depression.

            • RaptorBenn@lemmy.world
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              3 天前

              If you want this conflict to end the last thing you want to give it is more noteriety. The only reason this is still happening is because of outside influences.

              • Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works
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                3 天前

                Can you please elaborate on that connection from your perspective. I imagine there must be some context I am overlooking.

                Willful ignorance of atrocities does not have any chance of stopping or slowing them. Source: Russian Gulags, North Korea, US native women murders/trafficking, Auschwitz.

                • RaptorBenn@lemmy.world
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                  2 天前

                  All the shouting and “notoriety” just makes it worse. Turns it into a spectacle instead of actually fixing anything. Sometimes, less outside noise is exactly what’s needed for people to sort their own mess out. Wayne Dyer said, “Conflict cannot survive without your participation.”

      • burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world
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        3 天前

        Israel does not feel a need to hide their crimes because they believe any action they take is righteous because they are doing it and any action their enemies take is evil because they are doing it

  • derry@midwest.social
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    3 天前

    She could do the funniest thing now and get on the next humanitarian boat back.

    Edit: me do grammar poorly

    • viking@infosec.pub
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      3 天前

      She already said that she’d do just that. Let’s see how fast they’ll let her leave next time. If at all.

      • dinren@discuss.online
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        3 天前

        They will let her leave. Not letting her leave would be more of a problem for them and probably what she wants.

        • Björn Tantau@swg-empire.de
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          3 天前

          I dunno. If you can get away with murdering civilians, children, aid workers and journalists. Maybe you want to start testing if you can get away with murdering celebrities.

      • neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        3 天前

        That’s what the internet already screamed last time

        Some people don’t want to accept reality doesn’t fit their worldview

        • Doorbook@lemmy.world
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          3 天前

          there was one in 2010 where the bomb and killed people

          Six civilian ships of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla were raided by Israel on 31 May 2010 in international waters in the Mediterranean Sea. Nine of the flotilla passengers were killed during the raid, with thirty wounded (including one who later died of his wounds).[1][2] Ten Israeli soldiers were wounded, one seriously. The exact sequence of events is contested, in part due to the IDF’s confiscation of the passengers’ photographic evidence.[3] The flotilla, organized by the Free Gaza Movement and the Turkish Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (İHH), was carrying humanitarian aid and construction materials, intending to break the Israeli naval blockade of the Gaza Strip.

      • WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works
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        3 天前

        Cute idea. But unfortunately not practical. For something as valuable/kg as cocaine, you can go to the trouble of using a narco sub. But there’s zero chance such a sub could practically carry cheap bulky goods like flour, rice, etc.

        You might be able to use them to smuggle in medicines though.

        • Olgratin_Magmatoe@startrek.website
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          3 天前

          So then don’t carry flour and rice, go with pemmican or something similar, high protein, high caloric, high density food.

          A brick of pemmican is better than nothing, which is what they currently have.

  • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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    3 天前

    Adalah, an Israel-based non-governmental legal organization that is representing some of the activists, said that those who remain are being held in Givon Prison in Ramleh, central Israel.

    So grab the passengers of a boat in international wares and jail them in Israel. 😒

    In a statement to CNN, Israel said that it “is preventing the entry of all vessels into the Gaza Strip, in accordance with international law.”

    Is there a charitable interpretation that could make this statement true?

    • Kirp123@lemmy.world
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      3 天前

      The ship was nowhere near Gaza. They were off the coast of Egypt in International waters. Israel just kidnapped a bunch of people. Also they only released Greta? What about the other people?

        • rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
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          2 天前

          They refuse to sign a document saying that they enteres israel legally which make it look like israel kidnapping was legal and legitimate

      • GojuRyu@lemmy.world
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        3 天前

        Greta is one of four activists that have been sent home. According to Israel only those four signed the papers neededfor it and the rest are expected to be sent home after a court have ruled they can. Basically the remaining 8 activists reportedly chose not to give Israel the easy way of getting rid of them. I don’t have any English news sources though, as I read it in a newspaper in my native language.

    • SinningStromgald@lemmy.world
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      3 天前

      Is there a charitable interpretation that could make this statement true?

      Since Gaza is an open air prison under the control of Israel and not recognized as an independent state we can blockade it all we want.

      Best I got.

      Really hard to justify genocide.

      • Randelung@lemmy.world
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        3 天前

        Palestine is not a recognized country in most of the western world, which in itself is a travesty, but you can probably infer a lot of bs from that.

        Like claiming a certain religious group has no human rights bc they’re not recognized as humans.

        • Kirp123@lemmy.world
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          3 天前

          Palestine is not a recognized country in most of the western world, which in itself is a travesty, but you can probably infer a lot of bs from that.

          That’s not even true.

          As of March 2025, the State of Palestine is recognized as a sovereign state by 147 of the 193 member states of the United Nations, or just over 75% of all UN members. It has been a non-member observer state of the United Nations General Assembly since November 2012.

          75% of the world recognizes Palestine as a sovereign state.

          • lividweasel@lemmy.world
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            3 天前

            To be fair, they specified “western world”. If you look at the map of countries that recognize Palestine, it’s pretty glaring that a good chunk of Europe, Canada/US, and Australia/NZ don’t officially recognize it.

    • neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      3 天前

      They declared war, they are allowed to enct vlockades according to international law.

      • Saleh@feddit.org
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        3 天前

        They declared war? So they recognize a Palestinian state and Gaza as part of that states territory? They recognize Hamas as the government of Gaza?

        Meanwhile the ICJ ruled that the blockade of Gaza amounts to a de facto occupation, well before Oct. 7. Furthermore the ICJ ruled that this occupation is illegal. So Israel is obliged to end the occupation, including the blockade as well as having the obligation to provide for the people under its occupation. An obligation which Israel also violates by the blockade.

        On top of that there has been multiple rulings of preliminary measures Israel has to take to prevent the risk of a genocide being committed against the Palestinian people. The key obligation again being unhindered access for humanitarian aid.

        Nothing of what Israel is doing is legal by international law.

            • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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              1 天前

              Page 898

              Outside the blockade area and on the high seas,34 belligerents relied on the practice of "visit and search"3s to stop vessels suspected of carrying “con-traband” to the enemy.36 A belligerent warship sailing on the high seas had the right to visit and search all merchant vessels. Merchants found carrying enemy contraband were captured and escorted to the belligerent’s nearest home port. The belligerent nation’s prize court then determined the fate of the captured ship and cargo.37 In cases where merchants resisted either capture or visit and search, the blockading force was entitled to pursue and, if neces-sary, damage or destroy the vessel to force the ship to submit.

              Page 901

              belligerents today continue to enforce blockades from long distance or through blockade zones. They do so because of three twentieth-century developments in maritime warfare: first, the growing importance to belligerents of conducting economic warfare in conjunction with armed con-flict;s3 second, the introduction of a large array of new weapons to the maritime battlefield; and third, the proliferation of modern weapons to less powerful nations incapable of conducting traditional blockade. In combination, these three developments have forced states to replace traditional blockade form with long-distance blockade or blockade zones.

  • harmsy@lemmy.world
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    2 天前

    If you want to get food aid into Gaza, it might be best to smuggle it in using drones or cartel subs.

    • FireIced@lemmy.super.ynh.fr
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      3 天前

      When you’re a public figure, that’s to be expected.

      Right to information here as well. It gives publicly useful infos, whether you like it or not

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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      3 天前

      Wait… are we framing her as a kidnapped child or a POW? Gotta make sure everyone is on the same page when making propaganda about this.

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        3 天前

        She’s defintely an adult. But yeah apprehended in international waters, taken to a country that she didn’t chose to enter willingly, and then deported.

        • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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          2 天前

          She intended to enter territorial waters and breach the blockade. That’s intention to enter.

          • Zenith@lemm.ee
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            2 天前

            Yeah obviously they were there to enter they said it over and over… how else would aid get in if actually getting in wasn’t the plan? Even if they weren’t there to enter, for some reason, the fact that they said they were going to enter so many times would be considered credible

            • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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              1 天前

              The aid gets in through the official open crossings, Eretz for example. Not by breaching a naval blockade.

      • nomreokuntz@lemmy.cafe
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        3 天前

        Found the genocide apologist scum. One day you will look back on yourself and hate that your spent your only life spitting this kind of hate

        • Jankatarch@lemmy.world
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          2 天前

          If it doesn’t matter anyway in the end then why not make it better for now?

          Small stuff like “not comitting a genocide” won’t impact anyone after humanity declines so we might as well not commit genocide, no? Same for climate change.

          Sure you may not want to do it but why insult people who want and enjoy doing it. Especially if you truly believe their actions don’t change anything.

      • TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip
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        3 天前

        Did she ever accomplish anything other than going to places getting arrested and changing absolutely nothing?

        What is her job? Going around the world with seemingly unlimited funds and giving some interviews? Just sounds like a Kardashian with extra steps.

        • Hawk@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          3 天前

          She brought attention to the Palestinian genocide millions of people while putting Israel in a bad light.

          What have you done today? Maybe made a donation to make you feel better?

        • nothrone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          What is her job? Going around the world with seemingly unlimited funds and giving some interviews? Just sounds like a Kardashian with extra steps.

          Yes, she did. She provided mutual aid. She might not have saved the entire world, but no one ever does. She helped a few, and that is more than anyone could say about you.

        • TheLemming@lemm.ee
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          2 天前

          What’s your job? Whining and bitching about someone doing something that takes more courage than your dumb ass will cumulatively muster over the entirety of your life?

        • Furbag@lemmy.world
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          2 天前

          Did she ever accomplish anything other than going to places getting arrested and changing absolutely nothing?

          It’s got you here talking about it with your terrible opinions, hasn’t it?

          Take a look at this image and tell me if you think these guys accomplished anything other than going to a lunch counter and getting arrested and changing “absolutely nothing”?

          • Zenith@lemm.ee
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            2 天前

            I guess some people genuinely don’t understand activism and collectivism

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      3 天前

      You have no rights to that name. The eight doctor would never spew drivvel like that.

    • Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world
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      3 天前

      I was trying to unpack how many layers of stupid your comment is. But i felt my brain starting to rot. So i stopped.

    • Bo7a@lemmy.ca
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      3 天前

      Elated to be wrong. You see, that is how being an adult works. Sometimes you are wrong, and when you are wrong about something with a positive outcome, you are happy that you were wrong.

      • Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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        3 天前

        but also, spending energy on prevention (the publicity) and then when the thing doesn’t occur saying “i guess we were wrong” is the wrong take i think

        same thing with Y2K and plenty of engineering things: people were saying “it was no big deal! yall were saying planes were going to fall out of the sky! we wasted so much time and money!”… yeah; it was a huge and expensive effort that’s why the bad things didn’t happen

    • thisnameisnottolong@aussie.zone
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      3 天前

      Ooh check out the genocide apologist, making a super strong argument about how just and honorable Israel is. So intelligent and brave! You should get a sticker from Bibi to put on your shirt.

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
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      3 天前

      Public attention from them and others is why she’s being gently handled. You should thank those who raised the alarm on her behalf, not Israel.

    • Psythik@lemm.ee
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      3 天前

      Right here. I would have never in a million years have imagined that they would just let her go. This is an extremely surprising turn of events.