The other day, my parents asked me (22M) if there were any women that I find attractive (I guess because they’re paranoid about me being gay lol) and I told them yes, there’s a fair number of women that I’ve seen in public that I’ve found attractive.
They asked me, “Do you talk to any of them?” and I said “No??? It’s inappropriate to approach women in public unless you have business with them.”
I told them that it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman he doesn’t know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers—dating apps, hobby groups, meeting friends of friends, etc. In my view, cold approaching women you don’t know just because you’re attracted to them is harassment.
My parents told me that I’m being ridiculous and making excuses because I’m nervous. They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner. I told them that times have changed and this is disrespectful and potentially predatory behavior along the lines of unsolicited flirting and catcalling. Approaching women is a violation of their personal space and could make them feel very uncomfortable, especially if they feel like they don’t have an easy way out.
My parents are almost 60 and they are very conservative, so they don’t exactly follow progressive discourse, and I feel like they’re super out of touch on this as a result. Particularly, my mom tends to strike up conversations with other women in public, and she’s skeptical when I tell her that I can’t do the same thing because I’m a man and would be viewed as a potential predator.
But I also don’t get out much, which makes me second-guess how distorted my understanding of the social world is from reality. My parents are like a broken clock, and sometimes they DO have a point about something despite 90% of their opinions being insane. Maybe there is a more nuanced reality that I’m not picking up on.
So I wanted to ask here. Are my parents out of touch? Am I out of touch? Are we both wrong? I want to know your opinion.
First, they need to find better things to worry about. pressing this is exactly how you end up with regrettable relationships. Second, ignore the gender. Treat women like people. If a situation comes up, like someone makes a scene at the front of a line you are both in, strike up a conversation about that. See where it goes. Lasting things occur organically. That being said, “she’s hot and I want to be inside her” is not a good enough reason to strike up a conversation with someone. Appreciate the sight but don’t try to capitalize on it.
Not putting some special stigma on it makes it less uncomfortable for both of you, and perhaps somewhat ironically, a little more likely that you do eventually get to be inside of her.
Woman here: I’m not annoyed if a person I don’t know talks to me, as long as a) they don’t interrupt something I’m doing to have conversation and b) they read my body language and fuck off again the moment it’s clear I’m not interested. But asking me questions when I have my headphones in to talk about inane shit while I roll my eyes? Nah.
Honestly, as a woman, I think it’s more about knowing when it’s appropriate to talk to people.
It’s okay if people hit me up at the park or the bar. It’s not okay when I’m doing my groceries in a hurry, or when I’m crossing the street 😆 and if you get “rejected” (sometimes it’s not a hard rejection, my social schedule is just already full), just take it well and go talk to someone else.
I don’t think this is rocket science, and apart from some teenagers whistling me from across the street (which I always pretend I can’t hear), almost all adults get this right.
It is an important skill and confidence booster to approach people in general in public. If you are uncomfortable with women, then start with men.
If that is still uncomfortable, then that means you are uncomfortable to talking with strangers in general. Unfortunately, experience is the only way to combat this. Start small with chit chat in lines, compliment people on their shoes, etc.
Instructions unclear, now paying for a gay wedding.
Both of you are right. Both are wrong.
My advice, if you can safely take a shot, do it. Fortune favors the bold, not the stupid. Be polite, be flirty, pay attention to their body language, don’t try hard to turn a no into a yes, don’t worry about rejection.
Sure you can do dating apps or try meeting people through hobbies, but cold approaching people you like can turn out as good as it can be nerve wracking.
This is the answer. You can absolutely approach a woman if you are interested in her, just be respectful and polite about it. I’m a woman who has been both rudely approached and politely approached.
Scenario 1- bad experience: I was at a show seeing some metal bands I really liked. I was wearing a shirt with a local band that was big in the 80s 90s. The band is bit niche, not hugely known to the general public. So I’m minding my own business waiting to buy a drink, and this guy approaches me, points to my boobs and says “Do you even know who that band is?” I told him “yes, I’m a huge fan and have been listening to them for years.” That should have been the end of it, but then he tells me “oh I’m only asking since my niece has been wearing my old band shirts because they look cool”. Ok bud. There was no reason to tell me this. He was not approaching other men and asking them this same question. He was belittling me, in order to get me to talk to him. Which is a common tactic around men who don’t respect women as people (see Dennis Reynolds from it’s always sunny)
Scenario 2 - positive experience: Again, at a metal concert. I’m there with my husband and his bff. I was there to see the headliner, they were there to see the band before. My husband wasn’t feeling great all day, and his friend had to work early the next day, so they left and I stayed to watch the headlining band. I noticed this group of guys, especially one, sort of looking at me every once and a while, but I ignored it and watched the band. Once the show was over, I left and was waiting at the bus stop. The same group of guys approached me, and one that was looking at me during the show says “hi, my name is ____. I’m sorry to bother you, but I just wanted to introduce myself since I couldn’t help looking at you during the show. I don’t want to be a creep but I think you’re beautiful, would you like to grab a drink with me and my friends?” So I thanked him, and said I would have to pass, but hoped they all had a fun night". The they left, I got on the bus, felt safe and not bothered. This man complimented me in a respectful way and that was the end of it.
Hope that helps!
If you dont ask, the answer is automatically “No” .
“”“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take” - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott" - ZoomBoingDing
It’s pretty clear what the consensus is here. Yes, talk with women. You can even (politely) hit on women you fancy. Based on your statement about yourself it’s unlikely you would be pushy and threatening if she said no, but still, just understand when to stop.
Next question is how to get there from where you are. You’re scared you would be seen as a threat, harassing women just by talking to them out of the blue. So you doubtless have little experience talking with women. That’s where you are.
I see two possible paths to take. Which one is right depends on why you feel that way. If it’s an emotional issue, like if you (for instance) start shaking and sweating at the thought of walking up to a woman and introducing yourself, then maybe start by talking with a therapist. They can be really helpful. On the other hand if you are just nervous because you don’t know how to talk with a woman then look into learning how to make small talk. It’s actually a skill. It’s something you can learn. And once you have learned it and practiced it enough that you are comfortable with it, then approaching and talking with a woman is just about starting and having a conversation. You can even practice with guys if it makes you more comfortable. A quick google search produces a bunch of good ideas on how to start.
Now you have homework. Learn how to carry a conversation. Learn to make people feel comfortable around you. Learn to actually be interested in other people. It shows and it makes a difference.
EDIT: In a reply to another comment you mentioned severe violence in your childhood and the resultant fear as a major deterrent in approaching people. That’s definitely something to see a therapist about. You can work through stuff like that in time. And you’ll be amazed how much more free you feel once you have.
Learning how to engage and socialize with people of both sexes is a necessary skill. As long as your not being a toxic mess in front of them, you’re fine.
Yeah it’s super weird when people pick a very specific thing.
Like, imagine if someone wrote “I avoid approaching Brazilian Men With Beards in public because I believe it’s inappropriate. My parents say that it’s a necessary skill. Who is right?”
Speak to people like people. Stop thinking about what’s in their pants.
Got a bit tangled there bud and you’re horseshoeing
If you never approach women unless you have business with them then you’re treating them as things to have business with or romantic entanglements.
Try just treating us as people. You can have friends, you know.
I haven’t seen horseshoe used as a verb in… ever, but that still made sense.
As a guy, I can firmly say that I’ve never made a friend at the bank, grocery store, or coffee shop. If anyone started talking to me at one of these places, I would be very confused, and wonder why they are talking to me and what they are trying to get from me. And similarly, I have never struck up a conversation with anyone in these places - that would be super weird.
Of course, I see hot women in these places frequently, and I’d like to talk to them. Well, not really talk to them so much as fuck them. I’d like to say “hey, you have a really nice ass. Wanna bang one out in the bathroom right now?” Which is not unusual - this is just standard male sexuality. Hence why if you look on Grindr, a guy’s profile will be a picture of his asshole, and a common opener is “Hey, you in the McDonalds too? Wanna fuck in the bathroom right now?”
Unfortunately as a guy talking to a nice lady in the grocery store, that would be sexual harassment, and then I would be banned from that Safeway or whatever. So if I want to approach the girl with a nice ass, I need to have some kind of excuse - like, I dunno, what apples she’s looking at or whatever. But now it feels like I’m lying, because I don’t give a shit about apples - I just care about her nice ass.
You really, really, really need to see women as people-who-might-be-friends, and not exclusively as fuck objects.
I certainly do. I have a lot of female friends. They like me a lot. And I have several ongoing female fwbs. They also like me a lot. And I like and care about my female friends and partners a lot.
None of this changes the fact that literally the only thing I know and like about random grocery store girl is her nice ass, and this is the one and only real reason I would want to approach her. I’ve tried your suggestion before, and I have to say, it’s pretty fucked up. Because what you’re actually saying is “Your sexuality is wrong and bad, and you should be ashamed of it. You are a bad person for wanting to have sex.” So much for sex positivity and not kink shaming, lol. Turns out the most common kink of all - wanting to have sex with hot women - is shameful. Weird how that works.
The desire isn’t shameful dude. The fact you need to make it her problem is.
Where did I say I’m making it her problem?
Your entire commentary.
You see a woman you find sexually desirable about in public, doing normal, human things.
You approach her solely because you want to fuck her. You literally say this. You’re literally only interacting with her because you want to get your dick wet. Newsflash: People don’t want to fuck randos who come up to them at the grocery store. But because you wanted to throw in she now has to get out of the interaction - which I’m guessing is gonna be more than a bit fuckin’ fraught because you don’t seem to be grasping the fact that “I want to fuck it” is not a viable reason for annoying people in grocery stores - and manage your resultant rejection meltdown when all she wanted was some god damn potatoes.
You’ve made your desire her problem.
Please re-read my earlier comment. I was literally saying that I don’t approach women in grocery stores, because that would be weird. I was pushing back against another comment saying that not approaching women in grocery stores was objectifying them.
Edit: I just went to a grocery store. Had a pleasant conversation with the pharmacist at the counter while I picked up my prescription. Didn’t hit on her, because that would be weird.
You have a 1st grade reading level
No, no… It feels like lying because you are lying. Don’t do that. They are people and have friends and fuck and stuff like you. But at no point do they think you are a fuck dick and approach you to say that, because that is a än idiotic thing to do. Because you are a human in turn. Try to reflect on that. That both of you are human and want to fuck and at no point in that logic do any single one of you reduce the other person to a fuck object. Just learn that quick fix then you can approach them on equal terms again and actually get tail instead of whatever you are doing
No, no… It feels like lying because you are lying.
Yeah, that’s what I said.
But at no point do they think you are a fuck dick and approach you to say that
Right, that’s the problem. I wish they would. Again: see Grindr. But unfortunately, I’m not gay. Very annoying.
That both of you are human and want to fuck and at no point in that logic do any single one of you reduce the other person to a fuck object
Except that I never reduce anyone to being a fuck object. They appear in my awareness as a fuck object, with the potential for me to gain awareness of their deeper humanity later. Similarly, I do not fully appreciate the deep layers of the human experience within my cashier at McDonalds. From my point of view, they are a hamburger dispensing machine, up until the point where we form an emotional connection. And I can safely assume they are happy I see them this way, because they don’t want to see the deep layers of my humanity either - they want to see me as “faceless customer 447”, who they hand a bag to and then ignore as quickly as possible. If I went around fully appreciating the depth of the human soul in every person I looked at, I’d probably go crazy, and certainly would never get anything done.
Given that appreciating the true depth of the human soul is both time consuming and energy intensive, we must ask why we do it for any particular person. It must be because, for some particular person at some particular time, we have reason to put this time and energy in. And for random girl in the grocery store, the reason is: because she has a nice ass and I wanna fuck her. So we really just have the problem one step removed. I could be all “hey, those are some delicious looking apples.” And she’d be like “I hope so, but why the fuck are you talking to me? We’re in the grocery store, that’s weird.” And I’d say, “Because I’ve fully conceptualized the depth of your human experience and am fascinated by the minutiae of the way you’re picking your apples as just one more example of the beautiful fractal complexity of the nature of reality.” And she’d say “Okay, that’s even weirder. Are you high on mushrooms? Why are you talking to me instead of staring at the ants in the grass outside?” And of course, my honest answer must be “because you’ve got a nice ass and I wanna fuck you.”
Just learn that quick fix then you can approach them on equal terms again and actually get tail instead of whatever you are doing
I mean, “whatever I’m doing” is exactly what OP suggested in his OP. Meeting women at socially appropriate times and places (social gatherings, bars, concerts, events, etc); through my social networks and hobbies; and via online dating apps. In all of these cases, I either have an actual reason to talk to a stranger other than the fact that I want to fuck them, or else I can openly flirt with such a stranger under the assumption that this is expected and socially acceptable since the whole point of the venue is to find sexual/romantic partners. And I do this quite well. I just don’t hit on women in the grocery store.
I’m confused, what is horseshoe in this context?
but in this context: OP is working so hard to not treat their interactions with women as transactions that they only approach them when they have business with them…thus turning all interactions into transactions.
TIL, thanks!
Both of you are right and wrong, it’s not so black and white.
You absolutely can make friends, chat with people at the bus stop, strike up convos at bars, the local ski resort, bike park, etc. Friendships can naturally blossom into relationships (or remain friendships, which is healthy and natural too).
You can’t approach people and immediately ask them out, it feels weird and unappreciated (and that goes both ways, I’ve had a complete 180° role reversal and it was still weird and gross).
You’re young, you have plenty of time, and honestly the weirdest thing about all this is that your parents are worried you’re gay, like there’s something wrong with that. There’s barely any differences between genders, people overhyped the shit out of it in church, tbh.
Anyways, any% dating really doesn’t work, and I feel like your parents should know that. Don’t even try for dating, everyone can sense desperation. Just dgaf and focus on having fun and making friends. Love will naturally evolve out of good friendships.
If they make eye contact and smile you can chat them up. That’s the secret. They won’t smile or look at you if they don’t want you to talk to them.
Also, don’t confuse friendliness with anything else. 😅
I don’t mind if a man initiates a conversation with me. I don’t mind if anyone initiates a conversation with me. I only mind when I use words like, “no, thank you”, and they persist. Listen to the word NO.
I don’t get it. Do they do that? I haven’t seen this outside drunkards
I think you have a point, but also you’ve cranked that point to 11. Possibly 12.
Like yes, women can be really infuriated by how often they get hit on. I know the main reason my wife wanted a stereotypical wedding ring with a single diamond was that “it’ll keep the flies away”
But also… people interact with you in public. It’s like… a property of public spaces. Indeed talking to my wife in a public space is how we met.
The way you make it sound from your description would be that asking some woman directions would be a social fopah. Hell, where does just “having a conversation” land for you then? If you leave without asking for a number, is it different?
There’s a difference between idle chit chat and approaching like Johnny Bravo.
Faux pas, hehe never seen it as fopah
?huh? there’s no x in foh pa. “fox paws” pls be serious sir
Im sorry, im just a goose.
I gave up because I was typing on my phone.
I think there’s a lot of nuance that both sides of this are missing. There’s a lot of middle ground between not talking to women out in the world at all, and going up to random girls and saying "nice shoes, wanna fuck?
You absolutely can approach people, strike up a conversation, maybe even hit it off and spin it into a friendship or romantic relationship.
I’m far from the guy to tell someone how to do that and try to pick apart the it’s and outs of what makes some things ok and others not, but it is something that absolutely can be done.
“nice shoes, wanna fuck?”
Gotta say, if you are a bit spicy and they are too, if your shirt matches their shoes this might result in a date.
It wouldnt be the first time.
I’m forty, so a different generation than your parents, but I still grew up and had my first dating experiences before the internet. Online dating wasn’t really a thing here until I was in my early twenties.
At least where I grew up the guys who randomly approached girls to ask them out were seen as creepy even back in the 90s. I and everyone I knew met partners through activities like sports clubs, parties, bars etc. (I’m not from the US, so people from my school started going to bars pretty early). While there wasn’t a big discourse around men approaching women in public (or none that reached my little town), we did have some guys in town who’d just walk up to girls on the street and ask them out and the consensus was that they were weird and should be avoided.
I met all my partners so far through activities. My first boyfriend was a regular at the same student café and we ended up sitting next to each other during quiz night. I met guys I had dates with in uni - sitting next to each other during lectures and talking about the Prof, going to the same presentation or cooking night etc. None of them “approached me” in the sense of coming up to me and asking “can I have your number” with zero context. We chatted, had an interesting conversation. At the end we exchanged contact information to meet for a coffee, usually without any expectation of it being a date. When coffee went well, someone would ask the other out on a proper date. No approaching, no deciding within a few seconds wether you want to date someone. Just casually getting to know each other before asking for more.
I also met my husband that way. We went to the same event, talked, had a lot in common. We met the next day to continue a discussion about a certain topic we were both interested in. That’s when things started getting flirty and by the end we made plans to meet for a real date. I don’t even remember who asked whom, we were both heavily flirting with each by the time we talked about seeing each other again so it was very obvious the next meeting would be a date. He didn’t ask me out out of nowhere or hit on me, we were just getting to know new people and eventually we started flirted somewhere along the line.
This is probably the most reasonable response so far. You don’t just approach someone for no reason, there needs to be something to start a conversation about.
This thread is not meant for autistic people.
“Yes you can talk to women in public, but also not flirt with them even though that’s the obvious context of the post, but also there are some public places you can flirt with them that are somehow different from the other public places, and also it’s fine in the places where it isn’t.”
I’ve come to the conclusion from this thread that the answer lies somewhere near “actually some women hate it and some women don’t, and since the only way to find out which is which is by stepping on the landmine, you might as well flirt with anyone you want at wherever you see them, but do it politely and move on if she says no.”
And in all honesty, yeah fuck it, I’m gonna. I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, but being that the other option is “die alone and get eaten by my cats” I think it’s just going to have to happen.
you might as well flirt with anyone you want at wherever you see them, but do it politely and move on if she says no.
Yeah that’s about all you can do in reality.
Just remember not to be persistent if it feels off immediately, do not violate anyone’s space more than necessary (do not go for physical contact as a rule of thumb, strike up a conversation instead, if unsure of social rules) and most importantly, listen to them and try your best to take the hint if they can’t find a way to be direct and instead attempt to politely fend you off.
But there are a lot of social rules and cues everyone should be aware of, which definitely makes it hard for those unable to feel them. It doesn’t mean you can’t try your darnest though. Intent is important, so as long as you mean no harm, and do not break the obvious rules of personal space and no is no, nothing irreversible will happen.
It is and will be awkward, but it often is for us too who can sense and understand (at least most of) the “rules”. That’s just being human.
The worst is if you overthink it. Just figure if it’s appropriate and follow some sensible rules of thumb if it’s hard to sense the appropriateness, and then be the awkward clumsy you that most of everyone is in context like this.
Even if you radiate charm, are a natural with words and gestures, are in perfect harmony with the ambiguous rules of social interactions etc, you’re bound to misread people and situations sooner rather than later, and that’s just something that happens.
Being human is… very human. That is, awkward and clumsy and often disappointing. The upside is that it’s also surprising, exciting, invigorating and so full of possibilities and such joy, if you just manage to get past the also very human aversion to any potential awkwardness or disappointments.
This became a weird rant. But as someone with adhd and some weird natural drive for other humans that I haven’t been able to understand myself, I do often fail to think things through and approach people without much thinking. I have the benefit of naturally not overthinking it until after the fact. The world has never ended and I’ve lived a colorful, socially rich life, and for whatever it’s worth, I’ve not ended up being perceived as a creep or a threat or whatever, at least not widely so. So that tells me it’s pretty hard to cause any real damage to yourself or others as long as you’re respectful, aware of the dynamic and even if not fully aware of the social cues and rules, follow a set of your own rules of thumb that you find result in socially acceptable behaviour.
Don’t let the fear of unknown or being ridiculed or whatever block you from having meaningful social interactions. Even the most charismatic or naturally social and talkative of us end up in awkward situations and sometimes end up disappointed or ashamed for reading the cues wrong. Stuff happens. That’s life. For everyone.
But just try and be mindful of the place, the time, the surroundings, and do not violate anyone’s personal space more than necessary, and take no as an answer immediately if even hinted at. Might sound like even that’s a lot, but in time, with practice, as with just about everything else we do, these things will start coming naturally and built in in our everyday goings on.
Trust in yourself if you mean no harm. That’s about it. No one can fault someone with good intentions and respectful manners, if they keep their space and don’t persist when told or hinted no. You might get ashamed or even shocked for how wrong you read stuff, but again, that happens to everyone, even if rarely. We are all humans, and there’s a baseline level of awkwardness and inability to really read anyone’s mind that comes with the territory. So just try and trust yourself in that.
Let me prephase this by saying that I have never been officially diagnosed but there’s a good chance that I’m in the spectrum.
This is my philosophy on the matter: you won’t find a girlfriend talking to a random person just because of their looks, so if it was a guy, would you talk to them? If the answer is no then I won’t. For example, pretty girl on the bus, I wouldn’t talk to a pretty guy on the bus so I don’t; Pretty girl talking about something I have an interest in, or similar, I might talk to a pretty guy doing that about our common interest so I feel it’s okay. That being said I’m not much for talking to random strangers in person unless we’re in a social gathering, and I would feel very uncomfortable itlf a random person came to talk to me out of the blue, so even though all that I said above there’s a 99% chance I won’t talk to a random person anyways.
If you don’t open by flirting then it shouldn’t be a land mine at all. Also, be mindful of the context. Most people don’t really want you to hit them up at the sidewalk, but it’s probably okay at the park, as long as you don’t shove your face close to mine right away 😂
i really want to be left alone in parks. i go there to chill, not to have some awkward dude sit down next to me and try to strike up a conversation with an obvious ulterior motive.
Just to point out how subjective the whole time-and-place thing is. Not saying someone with a lot of tact couldnt pull it off. But thats not the target demography of a post like this.
Getting to know someone through shared interests/common activities is definitely the safer route, not just for the guys.
I’m a guy, and if a girl sits down next to me and talks to me in a park or even in a bar, hundreds of red flags will be raised that there’d be an impromptu Soviet parade in my head.
Sure, I’d respond politely, but I’d be constantly wondering what she actually wants from me: recruit into a sus MLM thing? recruit into a sus cult? recruit into a sus MLM cult thing? And I am sure that if the genders were reversed (a guy hitting me up, a woman, all of a sudden), it’d not be a Soviet parade, but an all-out scramble for the bunkers. That’s not to say all women think the same as I do, though, but just echoing the OP’s sentiment, which I somehow agree on.
There are far safer avenues for talking to the person of your preferred gender (or non-gender), where flirting is tolerated more, than out in public.
Makes me think if I’m autistic
I’m really impressed by how level headed everyone is here, to be honest.
