This is rarely mentioned. Because of its design, Starship can’t just go to the Moon, it first requires orbital refueling (from other Starships). NASA estimates they would need at least 15, but that was before the Starship payload capacity was downgraded.
15? What’s the benefit? NASA and the Soviets both sent crafts to the moon and it seems like they both designed for the practical challenges of the problem instead of whatever this shit is. And they did it in less time and more than 50 years ago.
There is zero benefit that I can see. Basically, Elon wanted reusability, the idea is that the same ship could also travel to Mars (would need even more refueling) or anywhere else. Just one ship to rule them all. And it seems to be bad at… everything, including not exploding.
It’s great that we have this stupid fucking parasite instead of a space program. I know rich people don’t have to be smart to succeed but he is so fucking stupid and obnoxious that I don’t understand how he keeps wriggling his way in. He’s gotta be the biggest fraud ever.
I started following Elon after the SolarCity bailout in 2016. It took me a couple of months to figure out it was all a fraud designed to bail out Elon and his family members who were stuck in the failing SolarCity business.
Afterwards, I started following Tesla investors calls and it is insane how many times I’ve seen him go like Uhhh… ummmm… we expect… it is quite possible… that we improve manufacturing precision and speed by an order of… umm… order of magnitude. Uhmm… Ahh, it is funny, then… um, the friction of the air would… um… become a limiting factor in… ah, I hope, we achieve that… the air friction would become the limiting factor for Tesla factories.
And instead of everyone instantly saying “this guy has no idea what he is talking about and he is just making shit up”, that became a huge narrative that was everywhere in mainstream media, on podcasts and so on. Tesla will destroy all the “LEGACY AUTOMAKERS” (that is what a lot of freaks call them even now) at their own game!". Tesla stock probably went up by multiple Toyotas. And now, no one even mentions that.
So fun little insider baseball. My father (who was semi-retired at the time) once did a consulting gig for Solar City. The only reason he took it was because the opportunity was given to him by a friend and the money was too good to pass up, but he didn’t really have a background in solar, just in general manufacturability. It was 60,000 for a weeks worth of consulting, with flights and room paid for. This is the kind of money they were working with.
So he basically spends three days getting an idea of where they were at with their process. They had just made their final touches on the 3-D models and drawings, hadn’t even run any simulations, basically were ready for a prototype to be made. So my dad was like, idk why I am even here none of this is something I can really help with, but they are being really cagey about everything. But then he realizes why he is there on the fourth day. He goes into a general meeting to basically watch the engineers present where they are at. Some C-suite types are there and are impressed, one turns to my dad and says, what a great product, it be made in mass within a year right? My dad is literally speechless for a second, before saying, as they said, this is literally just a computer model, they don’t even know if it works. The guy looks at him confused, well yeah, but you can get us a close time line right? And my dad is like, what, no, we are talking 2-3 years minimum not even including any likely issues, plus he was not even familiar with the timelines associated with these kinds of products (he was a computer parts guys). He basically lists everything that still needs to be done in order to even get to manufacturability. The guy still doesn’t seem to understand. Then one of the other lead engineers kind looks at him kinda pleadingly and he realizes that he is supposed to give a bullshit number, sign off on it, and then have it get presented to some investors. Still taking his professional reputation seriously though, he sticks to his guns, wraps up the consultation according to the contract, and leaves. He was and has never been called back for anything like that since, but it permanently made him completely distrust any engineering project estimates coming from Silicon Valley.
Elon then presented the “finished product” at the set of Desperate Housewives lol.
Lol I didn’t know that, that’s hilarious.
Incredible
Starship’s payload is larger. If they reduced Starship’s size and used the extra mass for a second stage, then they could get to the moon in one go the way the Saturn V did, but they’re really committed to getting that giant hunk of steel onto the surface of the moon instead of a much smaller and more specialized lander.
But the Soviets did not send people to the moon. Their superheavy rocket was a failure, and the logistics and limitations of a multi-launch approach foreclosed that possibility. But if the logistics are solved (docking is, refueling isn’t iirc), the rockets are reliable and/or you have enough spare ones, and the costs are low enough then it’s fine.
Maybe there’s a reason no one builds rockets out of stainless steel anymore.
It’s basically a flying cyber truck.
Maybe there’s a reason no one builds rockets out of stainless steel anymore.
It’s actually mostly about weight in disposable rockets. Stainless steel is heavier than the usual aluminum-lithium alloys in conventional rockets, or the carbon fibre that’s increasingly being used like Rocket Lab’s Electron rocket. It’s unnecessarily heavy if you don’t care about returning an upper stage back to Earth.
Stainless steel was actually chosen for Starship for good engineering reasons, not idiotic cosmetic ones like Edolf Muskler’s cybertruck debacle. The specific alloy that SpaceX is using handles extremely low temperatures very well, so it’s good for tanks for liquid methane and liquid oxygen propellants. But that specific alloy also handles the high temperatures of atmospheric entry very well, which reduces the needed mass for a heat shield. Aluminum-lithium alloys and carbon fibre don’t handle reentry heat well. The original concept for Starship was actually carbon fibre, but after they did the math on the mass of the heat shield needed, they realized that they might as well just go with a variant of plain old stainless steel. It’s easier to work with than specialty alloys or carbon fibre. And by aerospace standards it’s also dirt cheap.
Fun fact about stainless steel rockets: WD-40 was invented to protect the first US ICBM from corrosion in humid conditions. “WD” stands for “water displacement”.
It is actually because Elon wanted “rapid reusability”. Starships are heavier for that reason and must also leave some fuel inside in order for the first stage to land. It will be interesting to see how many Starship explode if they ever attempt to do orbital refueling.
Also of payload capacity to LEO to shit out a million star links, I’d imagine.
i remember they did this because of Elon’s personal obsession. so between the steel (to look like based 50s rocket) and cluster of small engines (didn’t work out for the Soviets either) wtf are they thinking.
i hope this bondongle digs the grave of Space-X. despite being Nazi shit, you really can’t beat the reliable Saturn 5 for superheavy lifting.
IIRC it has extra engines just in case if not all work. Just adding to even more weight. And they haven’t even proven 50 ton capacity to LEO, the last explody sample had like a couple of tons of payload.
It would be hilarious if SpaceX folded and we found out later that the entire reason for why SpaceX launches are so competitive is because they are making a loss at each one, funded by the SpaceX investors.
that would be delightful.
I haven’t been following spaceflight lately because everything is so doom but they are having repeat engine failures right? is it because of the methane fuel or the engine design themselves?
A couple of engines in the lower stage always fail, but with only a small dummy load that isn’t a problem for the test flight. Something in the upper stage exploded, probably a ruptured fuel line.
rupturing
Ahhh so we are basically at the “everyone left at Space-X that isn’t totally burnt out are failson Elon Musk fankids and cultists and his company has lost institutional capability and can’t build rockets anymore”?
I think the initial idea is so bad that engineers have a hard problem working around that. Stainless steel should make it easier to use in cold & hot situations, so they can save weight on the heat shield (and it is already very heavy), but now they have rupturing fuel lines and engines.
This reminds me of a Discovery Channel show from about 15-20 years ago, called “Escape from Planet Earth” or something, where a solar disaster required evacuating a small number of people to a new planet, within the next 5-10 years, using modern technology. There were two projects, one public and one private, and the private one ended up exploding on the launch pad because it was rushed and over-engineered.
It’s actually called “Evacuate Earth” by National Geographic, and I have a link
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Dont worry. China will have a city on the moon by 2060 probably and the US will still be trying to defund medicare.
I hate Elon, too. But I also know that he has very little to do with SpaceX, because he’s not a rocket scientist. I’m not a rocket scientist either, but I do know that the starship was designed for heavy payloads with refueling in mind, not for fuel efficiency. It’s not a mistake or bad design. It’s probably not good design either, but they seem to be coming along just fine from my untrained eye.
they seem to be coming along just fine from my untrained eye.
This thing should’ve been on the moon already but just keep blowing/melting every time they send it. The $4B awarded them by NASA is basically gone. Shit is so broken it’s ridiculous. People simping this is just doing the “Still love the rocket tho!” meme at this point.
Edit: In 2017 he said it would be capable of carrying 300 tons into orbit. That has since been downgraded to only 50 ton. He still hasn’t actually managed to send even 1kg of cargo into orbit.
Yeah, Musk is an idiot. But if you haven’t been keeping up with spaceflight news, you might not be aware of just how many test rockets explode nowadays. It’s kind of a thing, probably because they can afford to let it happen. And just like I groan every time I hear my boomer coworkers joking about the latest Chinese rocket to explode, I groan whenever I hear the same thing from my leftist comrades about a different rocket. It’s okay to harbor hate in your heart, I do it too. But don’t let it carry you.
I’d encourage anyone who’s actually interested to subscribe to Scott Manley on YouTube. He does a pretty good job of catching you up with everything that’s going on spaceflight related.
you might not be aware of just how many test rockets explode nowadays. It’s kind of a thing
lol
It’s okay to harbor hate in your heart, I do it too. But don’t let it carry you.
lmao even
Your space-treats aren’t going to happen dude.
They already have, dude. I use GPS and check the weather every day.
