Normally, investors rush into Treasurys at a whiff of economic chaos but now they are selling them as not even the lure of higher interest payments on the bonds is getting them to buy. The freak development has experts worried that big banks, funds and traders are losing faith in America as a good place to store their money.
“The fear is the U.S. is losing its standing as the safe haven,” said George Cipolloni, a fund manager at Penn Mutual Asset Management. “Our bond market is the biggest and most stable in the world, but when you add instability, bad things can happen.”
That could be bad news for consumers in need of a loan — and for President Donald Trump, who had hoped his tariff pause earlier this week would restore confidence in the markets.
Literally the moment Trump won I pulled all of my investments off of the stock market.
I just knew shit will hit the fan. Here I am not losing 10% of my savings because of the crazy cheetos man and his crazy stupid nazi sponsor
For now… Only a matter of time until this trickles out from stocks and into salaries, prices, benefits, etc
I mean they voted for a criminal. So yeah.
Shoots market in the dick
“Don’t worry folks, all part of the plan”
Puts bandages on market
“There, good as new”
Fading? Shit’s gone, dog.
They mean the rich fucks. Not me and you.
I know that my quality of life is likely to tank in the coming years, and if it doesn’t it is because I got lucky where others didn’t, but damn is it hilarious seeing how fucking stupid centrist business bros and tech people are in the U.S. right now, they are JUST NOW realizing the boat is sinking, when only half of the boat is still above the water… it is fucking hilarious honestly and I don’t take joy in this happening, I mean I do, but I am not happy it is happening I am rather so sad that if I don’t laugh about it all I will do is cry.
I sold 98% of mine.
now I’m diversified across Europe and Asia.
not great, but what choice do I have?
God investors are dumb as shit
Investors are the problem?
I for one like stability when my money is involved, and most people do. Most arent looking for the roulette wheel experience. When you have an idiot wielding tremendous power to throw out trade agreements and to inadvertently or intentionally tank certain businesses and industries because they’re significantly affected by tariffs, and from one day to the next they’re added, removed, added again, increased, now decreased… that’s not a place you want your money. And the government’s where those businesses reside aren’t stable either as their future taxes and revenue streams are hard to predict, so their bonds are dicey.
So what do you think investors should do? So what are you doing? Just crossing your fingers and rolling the dice? Got any major purchases coming up? Hoping to retire soon? If you lost your job how secure you feeling about getting another right now? Maybe invest in $TRUMP… I’m sure that will carry you.
Yeah the idea that NOW is when they fear confidence in America is fading means they’re fucking morons. It should have been obvious after the first round of tariff bailouts in trumps first admin.
Google searches for stable foreign bonds skyrockets
raises fear that confidence in America is fading
Just now that fear is being raised?
Why would anyone still have faith in this country?
That’s how shit the rest of them are.
European markets and bonds seem to be catching a lot of the fleeing capital so… big doubt.
We were up 3-0 in the finals and blew the lead. Enjoy generations of poverty if your family can survive the great depression.
Flour sack dresses are so in
It’s more like we came out of WW2 up by 10 because the other teams got decimated. As the decades have gone on they’ve rebuilt their teams and scored some goals so while we kept scoring, they were catching up. This is actually the natural process where a rebuilt Europe was expected to eventually equal the US.
But Trump just blew up the scoreboard and now everyone is wondering if we’re even still playing the same game.
The US was just the latest to take advantage of a disaster. Not too long before the Nazis tried to kill all the Jews were americans trying to kill all the native americans, as well. I’m not sure america has done any good as a country in a long while.
I didn’t say they did?
People from the U.S. (and even parts of Europe) do not understand how corrupt, stupid, and unstable majority of the world is. It is genuinely unfathomable.
This does not excuse the fascism of the current admin, nor the war-crimes of the U.S. as a whole, but they are nowhere even remotely close to the likes of Moldova.
Yup. US dollar is not the reserve currency because it’s attractive. It is the reserve currency because there simply is no alternative. There simply is no asset that can hold hundreds of trillions of dollar.
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if I were to move to Europe and get the exact same job and free Healthcare, I’d be making a fraction of what I do now.
facepalm dawg you can’t just compare how much you make in the two places, how do you quantify the stress that comes from never knowing if medical problem is going to end your life… because it will bankrupt you and your family not because it will kill you directly?
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No I just didn’t realize how naive you were about your privilege.
If you are a millionaire already why stay here?
USD denominated bonds are by definition 100% exposed to the USD and it has been falling consistently (with but a single dead cat bounce) against other major currencies since Trump took over.
International investors are probably avoiding the Dollar (and hence Dollar-denominated assets) in favor of other currencies.
This would also explain why Gold keeps on beating records almost daily: it’s sort of a “traditional” currency hence benefits from outflows from major currencies.
If this turns into the end of the Reserve Currency status for the USD, expect massive problems in the US with Inflation and servicing the massive US National Debt (if Treasury auctions have lower demand, Treasure yields have to go up in order to sell them, which is equivalent to say that interest rates on US Government loans go up).
Which makes sense to all of us who see Trump as a Russian asset who’s goal is not to cripple America but to destroy it. This is the end game and why Americans need to really ramp up their protests. This is the literal death of America we are witnessing as killed by Russia (and probably China too)
killed by Russia
And don’t forget tech-bros like Elon Musk.
His whole cabinet is full of Israeli loyalists and you are all still out here talking about Russia. Dude open your eyes.
Wynaut both?
Because one is a distraction.
And remember he doesn’t have to be an official asset, merely being someone useful to them effectively does the same thing - with deniability for the Russians
Nah, dude, there’s a 0% chance that we return to normal after this. We don’t have the political will to build high speed rail over twenty years, there’s no way we’re going to spend the forty years required to unfuck all the damage Trump’s done in three months. America is already cooked, stock a fork in it. It’s time start looking for the next thing and planning to do better next time. Get involved in local government.
Y’all need to actually read the article instead of just using it to prove what you already believe. The world is more complicated than a headline
When US policy can change in hours, based on the whims of a madman, it’s not exactly difficult to see why people lose faith in that stability. Investors want long term stability, and right now things are complete chaos.
This is arguably bigger news than the stock market.
This is by design. They want to destabilize the US. There is a lot of money and influence in it for them
Not if it collapses as fast as it looks like it will!
It definitely is. If bonds don’t sell, or at least no longer sell cheap, then the US might get bigger problems with their budget.
If US Bonds are no longer the de facto safe haven asset…
The USD is no longer the world’s de facto reserve currency.
That means that even if all the tariffs were rescinded, Trump croaked and somehow JD Vance took a ‘be at least somewhat more competent and less stupid’ pill, and never reinstated them…
Well it would mean the dollar would crash against other currencies, we wouldn’t be able to import anywhere near as much, and US international debt payments as a percentage of the yearly budget would climb fast.
… And then that could spiral into both massive austerity at home, and/or ‘lol we are defaulting on our international debt’ either by formal declaration, or… basically hyperinflation.
That means that even if all the tariffs were rescinded, Trump croaked and somehow JD Vance took a ‘be at least somewhat more competent and less stupid’ pill, and never reinstated them…
It’s too late for that. The US has shown that any appearance of stability can be upended at the whim of whatever singular person is president at the time, and there are no systems in place to prevent that. The idea of “checks and balances” has been shown to be a lie.
Trump signed a trade agreement with Canada and Mexico last time he was president and immediately violated them at the start of this term. He’s been constantly back and forth on tariffs with no warning. The word of the US has become completely worthless.
It doesn’t matter if all Republicans suddenly realize “this is bad”, remove Trump, and put someone stable in his place. The world had been shown that regardless of how stable the current president is, in 4 years the citizens could vote for a complete idiot (and I remind you Trump did win the popular vote. The citizens voted for this) and the market is in turmoil again.
Other countries aren’t unstable idiots of course and aren’t going to tear up existing agreements (because they value stability) but they sure as fuck won’t be renewing any contracts (at least not without far less favorable terms for the US and escape hatches incase another idiot is put in charge) and will be making contracts with other nations instead.
Trump has killed the US and a financial superpower, the US just doesn’t know it yet. It won’t be felt until existing contracts expire and new ones are signed.
No disagreements, no notes.
We (USians) are completely cooked, totally fucked.
We’d have to erect a new government, and then actually demonstrate stability for a decade or two… to begin to be able to undo Trump’s damage, to be treated as anything other than basically a rogue nation that also has the world’s… either the first or second largest/most powerful military.
I can only hope some more civilized places may begin to more seriously consider Americans seeking asylum… though I of course completely understand why they wouldn’t.
It’s the God damn mainstream propaganda media and the uneducated morons fucking shit up.
You sound smart.
You can pack your stuff and see yourself out or you can roll the dice with our staff of 19 year old tuff bois.
Roll the dice huh?
You know, I’m actually really into TTRPGs… and I actually keep my a few of my dice on me as a sort of silly good luck charm, here, lemme show you!
rolls for initiative in my own mind
reaches into jacket, draws concealed pistol
then u sell ur aircraft carriers and f35s lul
That’s not what happens in this scenario… Those aircraft carriers and F35s get activated.
For another victory in Afghanistan?
Hey.
HEY!
There are a lot of penguins on some godforsaken island in the middle of nowhere that need to be bombed until they understand democracy and freedom.
(‘freedom’ and ‘democracy’ subject to terms and conditions, limited time offer, no refunds)
Oh sure, here, buy our aircraft carriers and aircraft that even we can barely understand our own logistics and and maintenance supply lines and procedures for, that will all nearly mmediately break if they stop getting software updates.
Like, I hear you lol, but its kinda like saying ‘sell your literally custom made hyper car that will depreiciate by 80% in value and the parts manufacturer will go out of business when you buy the car.’
I am saying you’d have to be an idiot at this point to buy one, we wouldn’t be able to sell them at this point.
Now I am all for downsizing the military in general, have been for basically all my life since middle school… but uh yeah, that would look more like decommissioning and downsizing.
But uh also also, the military industrial complex are basically the only domestic manufacturing jobs we really have, aside of our shitty overpriced domestically assembled but internationally owned and sourced consumer cars… and the Trumpublican party is, you know, in charge, what with the fascist coup and all that.
republicunts plans to finance rich people tax cuts with additional debt in shambles
i heard this was thier lynchpin to fund the tax cuts?
Bond sales are only politically connected to the budget; not financially. Not selling bonds would in no way hinder congress from passing a budget.
Not really. US debt is held in those bonds, and it is a perpetual game of selling and repaying them. If they don’t sell anymore, the old ones have still to be repaid - or default. You don’t want to experience this.
I’m no expert but it seems to me if the yields have to go up to get buyers, it’s like raising the interest rates on a loan. You can still get the loan but you have to buy less car/house if you want to afford the payments.
You’re mostly right.
Most T Bills and Bonds… they don’t work like a credit card or a home loan.
Those are things you pay a bit on every month, and the interest rate is an APR, which means Annualized Percentage Rate, which means the monthly interest rate you are paying is the APR divided by 12.
So with those, the bank gets money every month untill you pay it all off.
With Bonds… say a 5 year Bond… you pay for the Bond, newly issued by the US govt, and 5 years later, you hand it back to them, and they pay you the face value + interest rate.
But, people who have already bought a bond, well they can sell it again, before it matures, to… some other guy, some other country, some other firm.
Thats called the ‘secondary market’, and most of the time you hear a news story about bond prices and yields, its a second party selling a bond to a third party.
Generally, when the US does an issuance auction of new debt directly… well, it has to generally track the prices and yields set by the various secondary markets, sorta like how you’d wanna check a car salesman’s price against kelly blue book to make sure you’re getting a reasonable deal.
There were moments in thr GFC, 07 08 09, where US debt auctions … didn’t actually result in the amount of bonds expected to sell, actually selling, because there were enough potential bond buyers who assessed that the US was offering unreasonable prices and yields, given the economic turmoil.
… I am not an ‘expert’ either, but I do actually have a BSc in Econ, and I apparently remember a good deal of my courses, and enjoy infodumping lol.
There are two different kinds of bonds, you described the couponless bonds, but most bonds pay a coupon. We are responsible for paying interest on those bonds bi-yearly. It’s an important part of the trade dynamic because the bonds can be traded for USD and produce USD for the older. If there is no international trade there’s no reason for them to hold our bonds.
So just to help your example most people are looking for the cashflow. They give the US $1,000 and they want the $40 a year. They can then use the 40$ a year to exchange for goods and services without having to shuffle around much money. Since banks, countries and industrys are tied to this income the threat of default is truly a global wrecking ball.
Ah, ok, I appreciate the correction!
Doing my best trying to remember my course work from almost two decades ago, looks like I missed an important detail.
… and that detail makes the situation… even worse, wonderful.
You we’re pretty much right on the money. I think the Zero Coupon bonds are more of a hedgefund favorites. Your average investor is going to be holding the couponed version in their 401k.
Thank-you for your info dump :)
Yay, validation lol!
The prices and yields of bonds have an inverse relationship:
If price goes down, yield goes up.
The yield is also known as the interest rate.
This interest rate * the purchase price is paid by the US government to the bondholder at the end of the duration of its term.
When you look at the US Federal budget, and see the amount that goes toward making debt payments…
This, bonds, are a very big part of what you are looking at.
If the interest rate on US debt instruments are going up… that means more and more of the budget has to be allocated toward debt repayment.
While yes, extremely directly, bond yields rising doesn’t… mechanically make the passing of a budget impossible in some kind of procedural way…
It very much makes the stakes higher as now our growing debt problem is growing even faster.
Waaaay biger news
Can’t fund that big bad military when all those dollars go to pay off those bonds.
I sold some bonds 3 days ago. I just don’t trust this administration won’t default on something in the next 6 months. Or do something else to drop out AAA rating.
I know this is the kind of hyperbole that leads to markets crashing spectacularly, but honestly, sell your bonds, get the fuck out of the U.S., this place is cooked. DO NOT RELY ON THE U.S. FOR ANYTHING IMPORTANT for the foreseeable future.
Centrists strangled any hope of mitigating this disaster by spending all the democrat/left’s political capital on meaningless handwringing about the parlimentarian saying no to higher minimum wages and whether well should we be so radical so as to suggest free healthcare… and well should we really keep feeding the poor isn’t that handouts?
Now centrists in U.S. culture learn why the leftists they have been angrily tone policing for being too negative where just describing in a sad voice the future that was heading for us like a freight train, covered in fascists hooting and hollering.
It is going to be bad, and I am very sad.
Yeah, I’ve been trying to figure out what to do rather than just holding cash (cause inflation is likely to go up). But bonds don’t feel safe, I think the best bet is looking to assets outside the US, but that’s exactly what this article is calling out, the US doesn’t feel safe anymore.
I’m debating precious metals or possible even Bitcoin since that’ll probably get pumped by the admin announcing the government buying it. Problem is they might try and sell off gold to do it which would probably drive down the price of that.
But I’m sure there won’t be any insider trading of those before it happens /s
Preventing this was originally what people thought was causing him to pause
I can heartily say as an American I have no faith whatsoever in this country and wish all the best in the world to the Canada-Europe-Japan conglomerate to be the only possible beacon of hope on the planet.
They (trump, republican toadies billionaires ,etc) have no faith whatsoever in this country either. that’s why they’re grabbing everything they can, selling the country for parts and fucking off to Greenland.
