We never had a healthy relationship with the USA in the last 80 years.
We have no experience of what you are arguing for, especially not as a United Europe.
Yes, now are arriving at the crux of the disagreement. I disagree, I think USA has been a lot more helpful than unhelpful, not to mention WWII. But I think this would be moot to argue about because neither of us will budge on our opinion.
Anyway, given that difference in how we see USA, I think they are potentially still much easier to work with than much of the rest of the world and we can mutually benefit from each other A LOT, granted that USA gets it shit together. Yes I understand that you disagree with that, but this is my point.
I have very low faith in the current administration of USA, they need to get rid of that shit. Or even better, just abolish the whole 2 party system, democrats are not that great either, get rid of lobbying and the rampant corporatism and then we’re talking… I know this seems pretty impossible right now, but I’m just saying if they did all that, they would be an amazing partner to Europe.
I still think that even the way USA has been until recently, they have still been a big net positive to Europe, but I also agree that Europe has gotten complacent, especially after the cold war. I just don’t think US working against us would wake us up so much that we would somehow elevate ourselves to some better level. In reality we would likely have to start aligning more with China, which is a lot yuckier.
I absolutely agree that they are easier to deal with than most, but we need to be aware that that happened by design.
They shaped us into a block that has a headache whenever it is time to talk to anyone that is not them.
Is as if we were in a (imo toxic) relationship with the first person we ever kissed in high school.
I don’t necessarily disagree, although I don’t see it so extremely.
I also don’t think that in the worst case scenario where USA goes full backstab mode, we somehow get super tough and independent and magically make our own alternatives to everything they provide or find them elsewhere. It would be a massive long term economic and quality of life hit, there is no way around that.
Europe is also aging and the rest of the world is also slowly catching up and culturally and politically they are more different from us than USA.
We never had a healthy relationship with the USA in the last 80 years. We have no experience of what you are arguing for, especially not as a United Europe.
Yes, now are arriving at the crux of the disagreement. I disagree, I think USA has been a lot more helpful than unhelpful, not to mention WWII. But I think this would be moot to argue about because neither of us will budge on our opinion.
Anyway, given that difference in how we see USA, I think they are potentially still much easier to work with than much of the rest of the world and we can mutually benefit from each other A LOT, granted that USA gets it shit together. Yes I understand that you disagree with that, but this is my point.
I have very low faith in the current administration of USA, they need to get rid of that shit. Or even better, just abolish the whole 2 party system, democrats are not that great either, get rid of lobbying and the rampant corporatism and then we’re talking… I know this seems pretty impossible right now, but I’m just saying if they did all that, they would be an amazing partner to Europe.
I still think that even the way USA has been until recently, they have still been a big net positive to Europe, but I also agree that Europe has gotten complacent, especially after the cold war. I just don’t think US working against us would wake us up so much that we would somehow elevate ourselves to some better level. In reality we would likely have to start aligning more with China, which is a lot yuckier.
I absolutely agree that they are easier to deal with than most, but we need to be aware that that happened by design. They shaped us into a block that has a headache whenever it is time to talk to anyone that is not them.
Is as if we were in a (imo toxic) relationship with the first person we ever kissed in high school.
I don’t necessarily disagree, although I don’t see it so extremely. I also don’t think that in the worst case scenario where USA goes full backstab mode, we somehow get super tough and independent and magically make our own alternatives to everything they provide or find them elsewhere. It would be a massive long term economic and quality of life hit, there is no way around that. Europe is also aging and the rest of the world is also slowly catching up and culturally and politically they are more different from us than USA.