EDIT: I'm very proud of this community. All the posts are making me think and solidly criticizing from an anti-imperialist perspective. Thanks, hexbear

    • A_Serbian_Milf [they/them]@hexbear.net
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      2 years ago

      The both-sides purity chauvinism would make Lenin mad too. He advocated revolutionary defeatism, which is attacking your own government and not being neutral/both sides

          • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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            2 years ago

            Both sidesism that includes your side is fence sitting

            I didn’t include “My side”. None of these bourgeois nations or international institutions represent the working class.

            I think Russia’s invasion was strategically necessary from a bourgeois nationalist perspective of protecting themselves from NATO expansion, and I absolutely think NATO/US/EU carry the largest responsibility in provoking the war. We should stand against all forms of bourgeois nationalism, while recognizing Russia and Ukraine as victims of US imperialism, and a byproduct of US-backed privatization in the 90s. I hope this isn’t right deviationism but feel free to correct and critique this stance.

            • A_Serbian_Milf [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              2 years ago

              So you aren’t a Leninist? Lenin is talking about foreign capitalist nations and how attacking them while your own imperialist nation is at war is a form of imperialist intrigue. You are just doing ultraleftism right now and not principled Leninism.

              The difference between organizing around the two:

              Principled: Oppose NATO and work to stop weapon shipments and push for peaceful negotiation as soon as possible

              Unprincipled: oppose everyone equally and sit on your ass going “let them fight”

              • Thomas_Dankara [any,comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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                2 years ago

                So you aren’t a Leninist? Lenin is talking about foreign capitalist nations and how attacking them while your own imperialist nation is at war is a form of imperialist intrigue. You are just doing ultraleftism right now and not principled Leninism.

                The US/NATO/EU are responsible for the war, and they’re also responsible for the Russian federation existing in its current form. I don’t think I’m doing “imperialist intrigue” since Russian Federation wouldn’t exist in the first place if it weren’t for US/NATO/EU. If I criticize Russian Federation in any way, it is only insofar as they are a direct result of US imperialism. Hope that makes sense. Same goes for Ukraine and any other post-soviet country. They’re all victims of US imperialism. To the extent that the meme is an incomplete or lazy metaphor, I apologize. I was hoping it could pipeline libs away from a pro-NATO stance but if it fails at that, maybe it needs to be rethought.

                Principled: Oppose NATO and work to stop weapon shipments and push for peaceful negotiation as soon as possible

                Unprincipled: oppose everyone equally and sit on your ass going “let them fight”

                I don’t oppose everyone equally or think the fighting should continue. I’d agree that a peaceful negotiation is necessary as soon as possible. But I don’t see NATO relenting, or Russia letting its guard down, or the Ukraine govt. accepting any peace terms put forward by Russia.

                • A_Serbian_Milf [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                  2 years ago

                  So because NATO previously looted Russia that makes it more ok for NATO to attack them now? I don’t follow your convoluted logic to get out of revolutionary defeatism