Generally I have seen few elements quoted in this context:
the union house in Odesa
laws that countered Russian language
some brutal occurrences already after 2014
To be honest, I don’t think it’s possible to conclude we are talking about a genocide, and some of the facts must also be read in context.
the union house in Odesa was a terrible event, no doubt, but it happened in the context of a coup/revolution, where those people were seen as counter-revolutionary. I am quite sure that lots of people in this community wouldn’t bat an eye for deaths of “counterrevolutionary” in other situations. Anyway, there are plenty of documentaries about this, so you can form your own opinion.
laws against Russian language are absolutely true, and I personally disagree with them. These go from teaching Russian in school to air time of Russians speaking programs etc. That said, it’s important to know how from the perspective of Ukrainian people, Russian language has been used (and continues to be used) as an imperialistic tool. Ukrainian language was suppressed and in some cases straight up forbidden during soviet times. In fact, in Kyiv or Odesa Russian is (was, after 2022 things changed quite a lot) the main language spoken, while Ukrainian was considered the language of uneducated people. Even my Russian teacher, who is from Belarus, tells me how she doesn’t speak Belorussian and the Moscovite Russian is considered a social pride. All of this to say, it’s impossible to read correctly the nationalistic push towards Ukrainian language without looking from the decolonization perspective.
nothing to say about few brutals events. Some brigades, especially filo-nazi battalions did some pretty bad things during the war (2014-2022) and mostly went unpunished. The entity and the frequency of this however is far from being considerable genocide.
The history of Ukraine, of donbass after 1991 etc. is quite rich and complicated, and generally eastern Europe history of WWII, which shapes so much in our common political morality, has been pretty different from western European/north American history.
A common issue with what I have seen around here is that the western lens is used to discuss eastern European history, missing of course the perspective of those people.
Ukrainian language was suppressed and in some cases straight up forbidden during soviet times.
This is actually not the case at all, in fact Ukrainian language and culture was heavily promoted by the Soviet state particularly in the 1920s under the policy of Korenizatsiya. Some of the most prominent leaders of the Bolsheviks were Ukrainians, and Ukrainians enjoyed a high status in the USSR. Ukrainian literature first really began to flourish in the Soviet period, having been almost non-existent before.
What you are talking about are Imperial Russian policies that were essentially reversed 180° by the Bolsheviks. The whole framing of the history of increasingly anti-Russian policies of the Ukrainian state post 1991 and accelerating after the Orange and Maidan color revolutions as one of “decolonization” is literally parroting the ahistorical and revisionist “Ukrainian nationalist” narratives which are deeply rooted in racism and anti-communism.
The Soviet Union from the very beginning was a project heavily focused on national liberation, decolonization, and undoing the imperialism and Great Russian chauvinism of the Russian Empire. In fact this is precisely one of the major criticisms of the Soviet Union that you hear from anti-communist Russian nationalists today: that non-Russian national republics were treated “too well” by the Bolsheviks.
I would advise you to look into the book “The Affirmative Action Empire” about the ethnic and national policies of the Soviet Union. It is written from a liberal perspective, not a communist one, but even so it acknowledges how much the imperial/colonial framework did not apply to the Soviet Union; in fact the opposite was the case.
The USSR operated as an “anti-empire”, it did the opposite of what empires do which is funnel wealth from the periphery to the core, instead very often prioritizing the peripheral republics, particularly those on the European side such as Ukraine and the Baltics, developing their industries and infrastructure more highly than many regions of the Russian SFSR itself.
The narrative that the Soviet Union was somehow imperialist/colonialist toward Ukraine is simply an anti-communist lie, it is not supported by the historical facts.
but it happened in the context of a coup/revolution
The framing of the fascist coup/color revolution of Maidan 2014 as a “revolution” is as reactionary as calling what happened in 1989 Romania a “revolution”. It was the precise opposite, it was a fascist coup and it was driven almost exclusively by Neonazi groups and Western financed NGOs. The anti-Maidan protesters who were massacred were not “counter-revolutionary”, they were defending their country and their communities from literal Nazis.
The entity and the frequency of this however is far from being considerable genocide.
Call it cultural repression then, call it whatever you like but the fact is that the Maidan regime has undertaken a systematic campaign to eliminate Russian language, Russian literature, Russian media, and Russian culture, going so far as banning the teaching of the Russian language in schools, punishing children for speaking Russian, and literally burning Russian books. It’s hard to make it more obvious that you are a Nazi regime than doing book burnings.
How is that “decolonization”? How is it “decolonization” to force half of the country to stop speaking the language that they have natively spoken for generations? These are people who are native to that land, they are not colonizers merely because they do not fit the Banderite conception of Ukrainian national identity.
the western lens is used to discuss eastern European history, missing of course the perspective of those people
Actually that isn’t true. We get a lot of the perspective of the most reactionary, fascist and anti-communist forces in Eastern Europe. We constantly hear Eastern European people who claim their families were victimized by the socialists (always conveniently leaving out the part about their families being exploiters, kulaks or Nazi collaborators). These reactionary voices are amplified a thousand fold by the Western media and education system.
The perspective we don’t get is that of people with positive views of the socialist period.
In the case of Ukraine for example we constantly hear the perspective of the ultra-nationalists and the Russophobes, but have you actually listened to the perspective of the people of the Donbass? Have you listened to the people who lived in Donetsk and who had to endure eight years of Nazis raining shells on women and children? Have you listened to the people of Mariupol who are now finally free to recount what terror and repression they had to endure from the Azovites?
Generally I have seen few elements quoted in this context:
To be honest, I don’t think it’s possible to conclude we are talking about a genocide, and some of the facts must also be read in context.
The history of Ukraine, of donbass after 1991 etc. is quite rich and complicated, and generally eastern Europe history of WWII, which shapes so much in our common political morality, has been pretty different from western European/north American history. A common issue with what I have seen around here is that the western lens is used to discuss eastern European history, missing of course the perspective of those people.
This is actually not the case at all, in fact Ukrainian language and culture was heavily promoted by the Soviet state particularly in the 1920s under the policy of Korenizatsiya. Some of the most prominent leaders of the Bolsheviks were Ukrainians, and Ukrainians enjoyed a high status in the USSR. Ukrainian literature first really began to flourish in the Soviet period, having been almost non-existent before.
What you are talking about are Imperial Russian policies that were essentially reversed 180° by the Bolsheviks. The whole framing of the history of increasingly anti-Russian policies of the Ukrainian state post 1991 and accelerating after the Orange and Maidan color revolutions as one of “decolonization” is literally parroting the ahistorical and revisionist “Ukrainian nationalist” narratives which are deeply rooted in racism and anti-communism.
The Soviet Union from the very beginning was a project heavily focused on national liberation, decolonization, and undoing the imperialism and Great Russian chauvinism of the Russian Empire. In fact this is precisely one of the major criticisms of the Soviet Union that you hear from anti-communist Russian nationalists today: that non-Russian national republics were treated “too well” by the Bolsheviks.
I would advise you to look into the book “The Affirmative Action Empire” about the ethnic and national policies of the Soviet Union. It is written from a liberal perspective, not a communist one, but even so it acknowledges how much the imperial/colonial framework did not apply to the Soviet Union; in fact the opposite was the case.
The USSR operated as an “anti-empire”, it did the opposite of what empires do which is funnel wealth from the periphery to the core, instead very often prioritizing the peripheral republics, particularly those on the European side such as Ukraine and the Baltics, developing their industries and infrastructure more highly than many regions of the Russian SFSR itself.
The narrative that the Soviet Union was somehow imperialist/colonialist toward Ukraine is simply an anti-communist lie, it is not supported by the historical facts.
The framing of the fascist coup/color revolution of Maidan 2014 as a “revolution” is as reactionary as calling what happened in 1989 Romania a “revolution”. It was the precise opposite, it was a fascist coup and it was driven almost exclusively by Neonazi groups and Western financed NGOs. The anti-Maidan protesters who were massacred were not “counter-revolutionary”, they were defending their country and their communities from literal Nazis.
Call it cultural repression then, call it whatever you like but the fact is that the Maidan regime has undertaken a systematic campaign to eliminate Russian language, Russian literature, Russian media, and Russian culture, going so far as banning the teaching of the Russian language in schools, punishing children for speaking Russian, and literally burning Russian books. It’s hard to make it more obvious that you are a Nazi regime than doing book burnings.
How is that “decolonization”? How is it “decolonization” to force half of the country to stop speaking the language that they have natively spoken for generations? These are people who are native to that land, they are not colonizers merely because they do not fit the Banderite conception of Ukrainian national identity.
Actually that isn’t true. We get a lot of the perspective of the most reactionary, fascist and anti-communist forces in Eastern Europe. We constantly hear Eastern European people who claim their families were victimized by the socialists (always conveniently leaving out the part about their families being exploiters, kulaks or Nazi collaborators). These reactionary voices are amplified a thousand fold by the Western media and education system.
The perspective we don’t get is that of people with positive views of the socialist period.
In the case of Ukraine for example we constantly hear the perspective of the ultra-nationalists and the Russophobes, but have you actually listened to the perspective of the people of the Donbass? Have you listened to the people who lived in Donetsk and who had to endure eight years of Nazis raining shells on women and children? Have you listened to the people of Mariupol who are now finally free to recount what terror and repression they had to endure from the Azovites?