That it is not some magic fucking “gift”. The hyper focus isn’t a super power. It sucks, and gets in the way in all the wrong places, bills, school, career. I would trade places with anyone who doesn’t have it becuase it plain fucking sucks.
To stop juging by looking: it’s not because i have a neutral expression that i am not enjoying the moment, it’s not because i am silent that i am not listening to you and it’s not because i don’t talk to you that i don’t care about you.
Also, people often forget how hard it is for people with ADHD to make a coherent structure when writing a long essay or doing a presentation.
Sometimes, i know i have work to do, i know i have a project i’m doing, but i just can’t. It can look like i’m lazy, but even i am desesperate in moments like theses. I can understand why people don’t get that.
It isn’t fun.
Yeah, all the stereotypes of the wacky ADHD guy squirrel lol, but it’s not like that on the inside.
We are lost in the goddamn fog, chasing phantoms and mirages that disappear when you look at them too long. We are constantly running to catch up and flailing for context. What looks capricious and funny is mostly just desperation. We aren’t bursting with unlimited energy, it’s as exhausting as it looks. Taking five attempts to actually get a task done because you just forget halfway through. Forgetting where you put the thing, every time. Feeling your working memory slip away like waking from a dream. Fucking up all the time, then having to work twice as hard to fix it, and feeling like shit because you can’t get anything right.
It gets old, man.
It’s comments like this that make me think I don’t have ADHD and I’m just a bit slow.
My therapist says I’m likely ADHD and I align with a lot in this thread, but this description is about 1000% more dramatic than my day to day life. I guess it’s all a spectrum, but I’ve never felt like I’m living in a fog, I’m very very aware of all of the things I’m fucking up, but my mind doesn’t tell my body it’s worth fixing yet.
I never “forget” to finish a task, I remember that task needs to get done every 5 mins after I leave it not finished and it pains me to look at it every time I walk by it. But there are more important things to do. Like scrolling Lemmy or IG.
Your third paragraph is describing executive dysfunction, a symptom of ADHD.
I’m aware that I am a very messy person and I desperately wish I wasn’t. My executive dysfunction makes cleaning and keeping things clean so damn hard
**It’s more like things about neurotypicals: **
- They don’t have an iron will; actually, their willpower is often much weaker. But their frontal lobe rewards even little things such as clearing the dishwasher right when it is done with little dopamine shots, which they crave and and seek out, almost involuntarily.
- When they face a task, they don’t break it down into little steps with superior conscious intellect. They see the goal, e. g. a tidy kitchen, and their frontal lobe breaks it down and tells them what the next tiny step is to get a dopamine fix. They are not overwhelmed with all the little things that need to be done and what could go wrong, e. g. that wiping a surface could fail when it turns out that the cleaner is in the bathroom or there is still dishes on it.
That we aren’t content with our “laziness”. I hate being “lazy,” but people seem to think being lazy is a conscious choice. Another big one related to “laziness” is the fact that laziness is just the tip of the iceberg, it changes how you think, act, perceive things etc. in a way neurotypicals just can’t comprehend.
I had a nervous breakdown in university, where I had gotten a huge, highly selective merit scholarship under strict performance conditions. I had thrived - relatively speaking - in a traditional classroom, because it was so structured. I murdered tests because it was quiet, structured, and distraction free. Homework was hit or more frequently miss, I struggled socially, and although clearly not malicious my teachers gently noted that my classroom behavior could be a challenge “to the other students’ learning”, but I was brilliant enough at tests and classwork and highly motivated by my toxic dysfunctional house to get out that I had successfully gotten my golden ticket.
University, where you had to set and enforce your own structure? I couldn’t cope. I got a lot of flack on “you never learned to study”, “you just don’t know how to do really hard things, now that it isn’t easy for you”. I missed deadlines for administrative work, I forgot assignments, I struggled to remember the instructions to follow them.
I remember a day just before I hit that wall - I was in the study cubicles in the library, trying to work on some critical midterms for a challenging course. I only had the cubicle rental for a set amount of time and needed to meet my long-suffering roommate for a ride home at a given time - they were also very busy and I was not helping their life by being late to everything constantly. I checked the time to see how much longer I had and went back to writing, but realized I hadn’t actually internalized the time so I checked again. Within 10 seconds I couldn’t remember how long I had again, so I checked again - tried really hard to remember! Said it out loud, was shushed by my cube neighbor. Looked up at them - forgot time. Checked again, pen to paper to write it down - I had forgotten already.
Frustrated as hell, I got up to get a drink at the water fountain, hoping the walk and the water would “clear my head”. At this point I had forgotten I even needed to check the time. I sat back down at my cubicle, picked up my pen to start writing for this midterm, began brainstorming – I was at the water fountain again, although I didn’t remember choosing to go or any of the not-short walk there. Puzzled but not surprised, I thought “I must have been thirstier than I knew”, and made sure to get a BIG drink this time. Walked back to the cubicle. Pick up pen. “Focus”. Deep breath. Consider the themes of –
I am back at the water fountain. Hand to heaven I did not choose to be here. I do not NEED to be here. I am not thirsty. I return back to my cube without getting a drink because “I am not rewarding myself for wasting time”.
I walk back to the wrong cubicle because I have forgotten the cubicle number I rented.
I end up back at the water fountain trying to remember my cubicle by retracing my steps - it’s not like I haven’t walked that path half a dozen times today already, how did I just now forget??
I get another drink. I finally make it back to my cubicle. I start working on the midterm again, but in the-reading the prompt sheet realize I have not been working on the prompt I actually signed up for this whole time - not that I have written even a paragraph yet. Frustrated to tears after years of this constantly and feeling like a failure, my phone buzzes angrily - somehow during all of this NOTHING, 4 hours came and went, and I am now late to meet my roommate, who is threatening to leave without me.
When I finally finish the paper, it is submitted by my professor for a “best paper of the semester” award and places second.
2 months later, seeing the campus psychiatrist after my mental breakdown due to “overwhelming anxiety”, he listens to me for 45 minutes. He promises we will talk about the anxiety, which is very real and distressing, but also maybe I should consider this other thing. He takes a paper from his filing cabinet, folds over the top so I can’t see what the title is, and presents me with a questionnaire asking me to rate myself from one to five on every moral failing that has ever disappointed and frustrated me and everyone who claims to love me. I am sobbing within 5 questions – there is a name for this?? This is treatable?? I’m not just a lazy failure?? No, I have no idea what the title of this questionnaire would be.
“Adult ADHD Assessment”.
Most people, it turns out, DON’T have a childhood nickname of “space cadet” or “nutty professor”, can finish a sentence in a linear fashion, can sit relatively still, don’t interrupt their psychiatrist 5 times in 20 minutes, and can remember what they have and have not discussed in a 45 minute time window. It also turns out that being a high achiever in a strict scholarship program as a member of the honors college in a challenging major at a prestigious university with “the WORST case of ADHD I have ever seen” is not super easy, although I can’t imagine why.
Within days I am on my first day of Adderall, although I am told not to expect much at this dose. I almost forget to take it, but my roommate forcefully reminds me as we drive, and I never remembered to take the prescription out of my bag so I still have it. I walk the 15 minutes from the lot to the library.
As I pass the student union building next to the library, I realize something absolutely insane - I know where I am right now, and I remember getting here. Not that I remember every leaf or face I passed, but it isn’t like the water fountain where I only know that I went somewhere because I am now there. Despite having the same routine every day of walking to the library to rent my cubicle first thing, I often “overshoot” and accidentally walk past it and head to the buildings for my major without getting my rental and storing my bag, usually only remembering where I am and what I’m doing once I go to open the door of my first class and see that it isn’t my class in there yet - I’m supposed to be studying in the library for a few hours more.
But not on Adderall - on 10 whole mg of Adderall I successfully went right where I was supposed to be on purpose at the right time and I remembered doing it, and it was so unfamiliar an experience that I cried on a bench in the quad about it.
Mine isn’t this bad, but I can relate to the first-day-on-Adderall thing. It was wild when I walked into my messy bathroom an hour after that first dose and my brain just went: “It is possible, even reasonable for you to clean this bathroom, in a finite amount of time, without every moment filling you with dread. This task will not consume your whole
lifeday.” My brain had simply never done that before. I could just choose to do something and–perhaps more importantly–to stop doing something. I remember I washyperfixatingworking on a hobby project at 11 PM on a work night and my brain went: “If you stop working now, brush your teeth and go to bed, this fun project will still be here for you to work on tomorrow. You don’t have to keep at it until 6 AM and then go to work without sleeping.” That seemed like such a foreign concept at the time. It was weird to hear that from my own brain, not in a “you’re being bad” way, but in a “it’s going to be okay” way. There was a lot of happy crying those first few weeks.Just wish I’d been diagnosed in college instead of in my mid-30s. I might have graduated.
People like to throw around the word ‘lazy’ but it’s more like I can’t turn it on OR off unless I’m medicated. Once I’m in the zone I will work until I grow a beard, then wither away, then my crumbling skeleton grows a beard. It would be a powerful thing if I could aim it.
Sometimes I do, if it falls squarely in the realm of one of my obsessions
Random lesser known facts in no particular order:
- You really have to say my name out loud before you start talking out of the blue otherwhise I won’t hear the whole sentence.
- Don’t break my hyperfocus unless dinner’s ready or the house is burning down. Everything else can wait.
- Dating is either the greatest thing in life or your worst nightmare. More often the second one. No way to know beforehand.
- You learn to condition yourself like a dog trainer, with treats and diversion.
- I wasn’t finished talking, I was pausing.
- No I won’t sing the whole song, just a part of the chorus or the intrumental riff. Yes, over and over for hours maybe. I know, I’m sorry.
Edit: Also, for the parents of children with ADHD get an adult with ADHD and make them interact with your child. You’ll learn more from 10 minutes of that than years of literally anything else.
This is somewhat related, but i have literally never met a single ADHD adult who wasn’t the chillest person ever. I suspect that a lifetime of learning to go easy on ourselves and set reasonable expectations for ourselves transfers pretty well to being patient and kind with others.
Ah shit. I need to learn this.
It’s an important skill, and I don’t think the NTs value it enough.
I can’t not think
I can’t rest
Everything, but mostly that it gets its name based on what annoys others instead of what bothers us. Attention problems and Hiperactivity are just two tiny parts of ADHD. There are other much more significant symptoms
In general the disorder is related to not properly processing neurotransmitters so everything that is “managed” by neurotransmitters can be out of whack. And some folks seem to have more problems with one kind of neurotransmitters than others.
Neurotransmitters are things like Dopamine, Serotonin, Endorfine, Noradrenalin. Example of stuff that are managed by them: Movement, control of the body, stress, sleep, attention, memory, learning, inhibition, joy, pain relief.
So, just by that you can probably imagine how broad the effects of ADHD might be.
We still don’t know any way to treat the root cause effectively (neurotransmitters being “killed”). The only thing that helps, is forcing the body to generate more of those neurotransmitters, hoping that it’ll process more of them that way. That works even with different stuff. If we generate more Dopamine, the body ends up processing more of the Serotonin it already produces too. That’s why stimulants work so well at regulating us - it floods our brain with artificial stuff that end up “shielding” the natural stuff to let them do their job too.
That is also why stimulants can sometimes make us more relaxed or even sleepy - it’s not that the stimulant itself causes that, but it let’s the body finally process everything properly so it can understand that it is supposed to be sleepy.
For someone without ADHD where the neurotransmitters are processed properly, stimulants will do nothing more than stimulate.
My 10 year old has ADHD, and threads like this have helped my understanding. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
What does my daughter need from me, her Dad? She has an understanding pediatrician and a good therapist. My wife and I have given her freedom to choose how she organizes her day within reason. She has never done poorly in school and has impressive interest in art and science. We’ve been fortunate to have flexible school teachers most years. The kid has developed coping skills of her own, but I can still tell that brushing her teeth or getting in the shower or getting started on her homework are monumental struggles every. single. time. I don’t doubt that she will be fine in the long term, but I would love any advice on how to help day to day life to be a little less exhausting for her while still helping her learn how to function independently.
What are things people have said or done for you that helped you feel seen and loved?
It’s very different for everybody, but here are things that would apply to SOME:
- She might reject “must do now” orders. Instead of saying “Start your homework now and do it until it is finished”, change both the start and duration to something manageable. “Hey, you are home! Just relax for 20 minutes, and 5 minutes before dinner starts, get everything for your homework ready on your desk.” Starting the actual homework is far less overwhelming, then. And instead of “… until it’s done”, make a deal like: “You only have to do 12 minutes of the task, but with a challenge: 12 minutes of maximum efficiency and performance!”. When it is about cleaning the room, also provide a clear unit of work, such as a time constraint (with stopwatch, never wing it!), or toys only, dirty laundry only, a well-defined section only.
- She might already be the willpower equivalent of a body builder, because she has to do with force of will what other people have done for them, be it the frontal lobe breaking down a task, or handing out dopamine rewards that she does not get. When she starts a task such as homework, she has to face the whole tree of little steps and what could go wrong: Find the backpack, alternative plan for when the math book is not in it, the notebook has half a page left, so she will have to stop in the middle to find the new one (where is it?), …
- When she is on a productive obsession, such as reading, an instrument, an area of knowledge, let it run its course undisturbed. There might be phases in which everything feels like too much, so these phases are invaluable. Much of her skillset might come from intense obsessions rather than continuous habits.
- Focus on finding a starting point to an overwhelming task, such as point 1: Get the homework ready and in place, then do something else. It might trigger a thing where she WANTS to start immediately, and otherwise, the start will be so much easier.
- Allow her to skip homework when it is too much and write a note for the teacher. E. g. got back home sick, doctor visit on the afternoon, exhausted and unable to finish homework, but did a start. When necessary.
Thank you. Suggesting to just do the prep for homework is genius.
Yeah, when my chore ask is, just do 10% of it, then take a break, and it’s really not an argument then.
I’ve never had any support from others into managing my adhd so I can’t say what helps for sure, but I can shed some light into it so you can try to find a way to help.
. 1. It’s very hard for us to associate work and reward unless the reward is immediate. If you tell your kid “if you clean your room we can do X this weekend”, they’ll want to clean their room, but their “body” will still see it as a pointless chore.
. 2. “out of sight, out of mind”. Imagine that people’s brains are like an internet browser, with different stuff being in different tabs. For a NT person, there are a few tabs open with the stuff that they are doing that day and anything that is not relevant at the moment is saved on bookmarks to be retrieved at another time. The active tab is the thoughts that are currently going on in the head. For someone with ADHD, this browser would not have bookmarks and in turn it keeps the tabs open forever. As an effect of that, we can no longer manually switch between tabs. Once we switch to a different tab, the old one is lost and the only way to access it again is “clicking on a link to the same page”. But we are so used to switching tabs all the time that everything loads instantly already.
Let me try to give practical examples of what I mean with this:
Say you live on the second floor of a building and you need to take the stairs to get home. Going up you notice the first step of the stairs is broken and need repairs. You make a note of it and continues going up. Thats a thought for the “stairs” tab that is currently active. You go into your house and notice your pet’s food bowl. The browser now switches to the “feed pet” tab, which makes you realize you haven’t done it that day yet. Anything about the stairs is now completely wiped from your head, as if you had never even thought about it. You go feed your pet and on the way you notice a pile of dirty clothes to wash. Your brain now switches to laundry tab and you forget anything about the pet. You start the laundry and go back to your living room, see the pet’s food bowl again and goes “oh yeah I need to feed it” - this puts the pet tab back into your head. This time you carry the bowl with you so it keeps that tab active and you can complete the task. At night you’re watching some show, commercial break hits and an ad shows someone going up some stairs so you go “fuck, the stairs” but it’s night now and you can’t do anything about it. Your wife comes in and asks what are you watching. You have no idea because you’re on the “stairs” tab now. Commercial break ends, you see one character and that puts you back on the show tab, so you instantly remember the name and the whole plot.
If you expect someone with ADHD to do something, there’s only a few ways they’ll actually do it:
- there’s immediate consequences for doing/not doing it.
- there’s something constantly reminding them they need to do it.
- they dedicate their whole day into not forgetting to do it.
That third one is what we’ve come to call “waiting mode”. It’s what we do when we have an appointment at a specific time of the day for example. We hold on to that “tab” so hard to ensure we don’t lose it, that we basically become unable to do anything else until that is done. When we’re in waiting mode, simply looking at a clock will switch the active tab back to that appointment and make us lose track of whatever else we were trying to do. Everybody eventually develops this skill (sacrificing their whole day so they don’t forget their appointment) after missing too many things - so don’t expect your kid to be able to remember to do things on their own.
. 3. Living like this is tiring. Feeling like we have no control over where our own thoughts go. It’s like there are bees inside our head constantly buzzing buzzing. And then at one point you find something that makes the bees sleep. Playing videogames, drawing, solving some logic puzzles - what it is changes for everyone, but your kid will find hobbies that will make the buzzing stop. Such a hobby will give great relief, on top of anything else a hobby gives us. But when the bees are sleeping, we are “frozen” into that tab - if left to our own devices we’ll often forget to eat, sleep and everything else. Initially you’ll have to ensure your kid doesn’t get stuck on their hobby alone. Do remember though that everytime you take your kid off of their hobby, you’re waking up the bees in their head. You may notice that their immediate reaction to it might be to be very annoyed. You’ll both have to learn to manage it, but what I recommend is trying to keep interruptions to a minimum. If the kid needs to do things, try to get them to do them all at once so they can have more ininterrupted time too. If you wake the bees every 10 minutes, it can be infuriating.
. 4. Any relief that we get from doing rewarding things or from “putting the bees to sleep” are also contained to that “tab”. If your kid spends a whole afternoon resting they’ll feel rested during that afternoon, but as soon as you ask them to do some chore, it’s as if they hadn’t rested at all. Imagine like you had a clone of yourself and you have your clone do everything you don’t like doing. It’s kinda like that, but instead of being two different beings, your kid is switching between being the one that only rests and the one that only works. Doing the same chores every day feels more and more annoying every time we do it.
. 5. Kinda repeating one of my previous posts, but anything that is stashed away somewhere will eventually be forgotten. Things that are kept in plain sight will naturally see more use. Things may end up being suddenly forgotten too. For example if the kid is learning to play guitar and they practice every day for months, then one day they don’t and it goes on for six weeks before they even remember they were learning the guitar, at which point the habit is completely broken. Habits in general are harder to form and once formed, we still need to put effort into keeping it or it may just vanish.
I could still write a lot more, but I should get going now, writing this made the bees sleep and I forgot to go to work.
Waking up the bees is exactly what happens. If any other advice comes to mind this is gold.
The hardest years are still ahead of you. I have ADHD and was undiagnosed until junior year of high school. I was doing amazing in school until things started getting hard enough that I couldn’t just rely on my current knowledge and had to actually study. Make sure she develops strong study/organizational habits now before she gets into high school, because that’s when things can really start to fall apart. It sounds like you are already doing a great job, and more than my parents did at that age, so you might have far less of an issue.
Helping her develop coping skills. These cannot come from you, but from her. You just help maintain and adjust home life to them. They can look like…problem: never being able to find what she is looking for. Solution: things get one place they are allowed to go and that is where it lives (eg: shoes by the door, pencil/pen in a drawer or bucket, keys on a keyring by the door, tools in a toolbox). Hell, I’ve found my keys in the fridge before. I can’t tell you how much it drives me nuts not being able to find my tools and then my kids used them and left them in their rooms.
Sometimes these coping mechanisms are socially-based. Sitting down at the same time in a designated spot everyday to do homework with someone else until it’s done (enough for the day). That used to be me for my kids, now it’s a friend who is also ADHD whom they worked out a method that works for both of them. Some of the things seem silly, but matter greatly, like the environment that something is done in being very important in helping guide that focus. Again, let her guide that, because it varies by person. She may want something on in the background like music or a show. Let that happen, but it shouldn’t be a visual distraction or need any sort of constant maintenance to continue (eg: a playlist, not being able to see the screen, but can hear a familiar show playing, not one that she hasn’t seen before). Ask her and let her guide it, but help ensure that the visual stimulus or the need to keep queuing up a new song isn’t there.
Elementary and maybe even middle school tends to be easier for ADHD kids, then they hit a wall in middle/high school when the class structure changes. Meet with the school counselor and (US specific) set up a 504 plan asap (accomodations outside school policy). This can be the ability to take breaks, listen to music in class, being able to take a test in a different environment (such as without other kids in a library or office), have more time for test-taking. This is something she will also need to decide.
You may be hesitant about stimulants and other ADHD meds, but for many ADHD people, they are life-changing. It feels like getting your life back after it was taken away, so they are worth exploring. They aren’t all limited to stimulants and can be safer for younger children such as guanfacine/intuniv. Even with stimulants such as methylphenidate derivatives, these meds can help regulate many things other than just “attention”. They can help with maintaining sleep schedules and often are found to be more effective at regulating mood than typical depression meds like SSRIs.
The struggles to fit into a world not built for ADHD people can be a major contributor to depression. It makes me think of myself and others as addicts searching for their next fix of dopamine at times. If you don’t help regulate this, she WILL develop other methods to do this: alternative stimulants such as caffeine and nicotine or escape methods such as social media, video games, tv, fiction stories. When she hits middle school, you’ve lost the battle and she will have access to these things through other kids. It’s part of why you see some ADHD people turn to cigarettes/vapes or drinking caffeine from the beginning of the day until they go to bed. These low levels of stimulants help them regulate everything going on in their head and function in a world not built to accommodate them. When we can’t do that, many of us turn to methods to escape reality or get small rewards-based dopamine fixes. You will not be able to eliminate all of these alternatives that can become pitfalls and unhealthy, but you can help her get meds that fill the same need so those other things don’t become actual problems and can be consumed in a healthy way.
There is little you can probably say to help her besides just listening to her, maybe show her this post to start? There is a lot you can do to hurt her and her image of herself that will seem innocuous to you or might be said in frustration. I suggest reading through what others have said about what they are told. The most recent thing for me was having a boss say he believed ADHD was over diagnosed and overhyped these days when I was trying to let him know I was ADHD and how he could use that to the benefit of both of us. This was coming from someone with a child on the autism spectrum, so not something I expected. My mother unintentionally hurt me by trying to encourage me when I was young, saying that I could do and accomplish anything I wanted. This was kind, but when reality hits and I struggle to do seemingly simple things or live up to her great expectations that were not real and only built up in my mind through my youth, it leaves me with a deep sense of shame.
The best thing you can do is listen to her and let her know you accept her for who she is and what she chooses to do with her life and that you will love her regardless of anything she does or does not accomplish in life. Let her know that your love is not tied to her worth as society (school, work, movies, fiction) defines it and that those societal expectations are not realistic to human existence. When she comes to you to show-off something she is proud of her work on, let her know you are proud of her for that work too.
It doesn’t manifest exactly the same in everyone with ADHD
Here’s a sampling:
Gosh, the micromoments of shame really really hits home
It’s the last one for me
‘Just write it down’
‘IT DOESN’T FUCKING WORK!!!’
ADHD can feel like you’re putting in 350% of effort 100% of the time but only achieving 50% of what others achieve, and then being treated like you only put in 10%.
My whole childhood & life before diagnosis, my intelligence and literally everything am good at was used as proof up career & academic & household stuff out of spite.
The paradox of #ADHD - being excellent at complex, high-stimulus tasks and fuck- all at routine, “easy” tasks was a weapon in the hands of parents, teachers, & employers and a constant abusive echo in my brain.
What internalized was that accomplishments that were fun or that came easy to me had no value, only the ones that involve effort “count.” But the things that involved the most effort for me were mundane tasks that came easy to others, so they had no value, either.
ADHD involves SO many micromoments of shame. Stepping Over the pile of laundry. Re- remembering the bill you still haven’t paid. The sink full of dishes and the fridge leftovers lurking in the back. The small but recurring should have" is cumulative and it’s painful.
The last one’s text wasn’t "Select"able on my phone
