• robinoberg@feddit.ukOP
      91·
      12 days ago

      I posted it in other leftist groups, but they deleted it. I don’t see how anyone can call themselves leftist and then support nazis. So bizarre

      • davel [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        2·
        12 days ago

        The “no tankies” instance doesn’t understand imperialism/anti-imperialism, and it buys into quite a lot of the imperial core’s propaganda against “authoritarian”/“totalitarian” states.

    • gwilikers@lemmy.ml
      220·
      13 days ago

      It’s perfectly possible to be aware of the white supremecist factions in Ukraine and condemn them while also recognising the validity of the broader anti-imperialist goals of the Ukrainian armed forces. If you think that Russia is somehow comparatively free from the scourge of Neo-Nazi ideology, you are, at best, a useful idiot and, at worst, a bad actor.

      Educate yourself:

      J’ai rencontré un des néonazis les plus dangereux d’Europe J’ai rencontré un des néonazis les plus dangereux d’Europe

      • The Free Penguin@lemmygrad.ml
        19·
        13 days ago

        “anti-imperialist goals of the ZSU” you mean the interests of the ZSU to keep Ukraine a US vassal state? The people of the Donbass have a right to self-determine, and if you’d rather have Russian speakers in the Donbass continue to be treated as second-class citizens, then be my guest. “But what about Russia?” The people of the Donbass voted to join Russia, regardless of how pro-Ukraine you are.

        • gwilikers@lemmy.ml
          111·
          12 days ago

          “The interests of the ZSU to keep Ukraine a US vassal state” seems to imply that Russia offers an alternative that involves no degree of subjugation. This is patently false.

          Also, why are we talking about Donbass and not Ukraine as a whole? Could it be because your argument falls apart the second we look at the modern hitherto internationally recognised nation state of Ukraine? Ukraine’s parliament made a majority vote to approve the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement. When Ukraine’s president ignored this, choosing instead to be a puppet to Russian interests, his people revolted in the Euromaiden movent.

          Now you’ll claim that the Euromaiden movement was the product of US/European interference and I’ll claim that the pro-Russian counter-protest in the Donbass region was the product of Russian interference. Foreign interference in political change is hardly a new phenomenon. It was true in Vietnam, though I doubt that most people who support Russia in this conflict would be all that interested in the plight of the Hmong people under the North Vietnamese government. I imagine the argument would go something like this: Yes we should fight for the rights of ethnic minorities within this nation but the majority of Vietnamese people wanted to be free from the American interfluence on the South Vietnamese government. Well the majority of Ukranians want to be free from the influence of the Russian government.

          The notion that the Russian speakers in the Donbass region are treated as second class citizens is a gross over-simplification. The majority of people in the Donbass speak Russian, Ukrainian nationalists included. They’re heavily influenced by Russian culture. They watch Russian TV and listen to Russian music. But to argue that this is a good predicte for secession overlooks the complexity of the situation there. You can be from a place, identify with another and still not appreciate it when that other place decides to massively disrupt and endanger your life with military occupation. There are plenty of people in Northern Ireland that want to be part of the Republic of Ireland, but there are very few who would support the idea of armed conflict to attain that goal.

          • OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml
            121·
            12 days ago

            You have no idea what you are talking about. Euromaidan is proven to be organized by the American embassy. Here is one of the participants admitting it: https://youtu.be/pgj3p2jIVtI

            You are just assuming the Donbass, Crimea and Luhansk rose up because Russia drove them on You are ignoring the actual events. A coup had just occured against a legitimate president People, understandably rose up in protest. The Euromaidan neonazis went to Odessa and burned people alive to supress the protests. When they tried to do the same in Crimea, the people organized a local militia to stop them. This is what started the civil war.

            Stop equating events you know nothing about.

          • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
            6·
            12 days ago

            Time for the copypasta!

            я не из калининграда@lemmy.ml (not a native english speaker, I believe)

            i do not support the current administrations internal actions, as capitalism has brought nothing but injustice, suffering, poverty, crime and corruption. but i absolutely do support its foreign policy, especially regarding the ukrainian question. the putin government has evolved to become one of the most effective anti-imperialist forces on the planet and even if you ignore the terrible nature of the terrorist zelensky-regime one has to be grateful to our military for fighting the biggest enemy of mankind, america.

            so lets detail the happenings that led to the current situation:

            (it may be important to note that the current russian administration pushes a slightly different narrative due to sadly being a right wing state)

            banderite collaborators parading in front of nazi officers the banderites (see picture), members of the fascist “organization of ukrainian nationalists” led by stepan andreyevich bandera were a gang of rapists and murderers who collaborated with the invading german hordes and assisted them by conducting acts of terror against civilians. It is important to note that popular support for them was close to zero. after the victory of the heroic red army, the majority of those parasites fled to the west, predominantly to canada. they received funding from american and british intelligence agencies, which were more than happy to welcome “former” nazis into their own anti-communist ranks. another subset of the banderites remained in the ukrainian ssr and conducted a campaign of terror and sabotage against the civilian population. their bloody deeds were supported by the cia and its european puppet agencies through the so called “operation aerodynamic”.

            spoiler banderites

            referendum on the preservation of the ussr. its results were ignored by the anti-communists

            After the illegal and undemocratic dissolution of the ussr, the leaders of those fascist gangs were glorified by the ukrainian far-right, with support from the cia. efforts to further their “rehabilitation” were primarily directed by nazi expatriates in canada. outlets such as voice of america portrayed them as “heroes”. (aerodynamic, some of these were manufactured in the U.S under Operation Mockingbird like a lot of U.S state dept. bullshit)

            results of the 2004 presidential election before cia intervention. this division between neonazi northwest and pro-russian southeast is visible to this day

            in 2004, the west sabotaged the ukrainian presidential elections and installed their puppet, viktor andreyevich yushchenko, through a color revolution. he was a terrible leader, not only dismantling the remaining aspects of the ukrainian economy and managing to make life even more miserable than it already was, but also granting “hero of ukraine” status to banderite leaders and holocaust perpetrators stepan bandera and roman iosifovich shukhevich.

            (not adding picture of 2014 ukrainian nazis since you have already said you believe in that)

            in 2014, america and the west orchestrated another coup, this time not even bothering to hide the involvement of neo-nazis. the new regime perpetrated unspeakable atrocities against the russian population, whom it consideres “subhuman,” as well as against ukrainian anti-fascists. in odessa alone, 39 people were burned alive in the local trade union building.

            those developments led to the revolution in the predominantly russian populated donbass-area and the creation off the donetsk and lugansk peoples republics, as well as the referendum in crimea that led to the peninsula finally rejoining russia. from 2014 till 2022 the majority of humanitarian aid to the donbass republics came from the cprf.

            the reason for the smo is the ukrainian western-aligned nazi regime violating the minsk accords by refusing to demilitarize, trying to join the fascist nato-block and murdering russian civilians for years on end. the russian government showed itself extremely lenient, to lenient even, as any sensible politician would have staged a military intervention much earlier. if you need further proof for the tyrannical nature of the kievan regime just look at the fact that zelenskiy has banned all opposition parties in his country, refuses to hold elections and effectively rules as a military dictator. furthermore he has outlawed the russian language, made any negotiation with the russian state illegal and is currently selling whatever is left of his country to the highest bidder. combine all this with the fact that the west and its puppets need to always be opposed due to them being a cancer of humanity and you’ll get a pretty good picture of why to support the russian military.

            [Query: Do communists have to support Russia?]

            @davel@lemmygrad.ml

            In a word, no. In a few more words, support for Russia (not Putin, as historical materialists don’t subscribe to great man theory) is only a partial, temporary, tactical one, in the context of imperialist liberation. Russia is still a capitalist state, though, so it’s a two stage strategy: first liberate colonized bourgeois states from colonizer states, and second revolution within those liberated bourgeois states.

            Russia is an interesting case: it has already liberated itself from the post-Soviet “shock therapy” neocolonizers. This occurred during Putin’s administration, which is why he is especially hated by the US. So now the support for Russia is in the context of keeping the colonizers from recolonizing it, and supporting Russia to the extent that it helps other states liberate themselves. But Russia isn’t trying to “liberate” Ukraine, at least not all of Ukraine. It’s trying to resolve the genocidal attacks on the people of the Donbas, and it’s trying to resolve the imperialist military expansion at its border.

            Also, Ukraine really does have a fascism problem and has for a long time, and the coup government has materially supported it.

      • REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml
        61·
        12 days ago

        while also recognising the validity of the broader anti-imperialist goals of the Ukrainian armed forces.

        You might want to look up what “anti-imperialism” actually means. Being a US vassal state and venerating fascists is about as far from anti-imperialism as you can get.